Radio Control Hobbies

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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:03 pm

Hance wrote:I don't care about being able to take it apart. I drive a 4 door 3/4 ton truck LOL

I thought you had the 1 ton? Don't need the extra tongue weight?

Well, still consider having the spar and motor mount with the same structure :D
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:24 pm

Nope its just a 3/4 ton. No need for a 1 ton for the type and size of stuff i pull. For me the most important thing is being able to have an engine that doesn't have spark plugs.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:50 pm

Dam there goes another hundred bucks http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/Defau ... D=EFLH2280
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:30 pm

Well, Ike kind of put a damper on flying this weekend, but I got to go fly almost every morning and evening last week. I would highly recommend the Gemini to anyone comfortable flying a plane with ailerons. It is quite docile except in gusty winds when it will tend to jump around a bit. I did pick up a new motor for it this weekend. Its a 450 class from Common Sense RC. With the 10x5E prop I have on it, it's rated at 44oz thrust.

I did some testing on the old motor before I pulled it out to check the current draw and thrust. In case anyone has ever wondered what 0.01 Ohms rated at 75 Watts looks like...
Image
Yes, they are on a heat sink. It's five 15W 0.05 Ohm wirewound resistors mounted with a mix of Arctic Silver and JB Weld. Pluggin my multimeter across it, 1mV=0.1A.

I found the rating specs on the motor I had to be a little bit optimistic, but not too bad. With a 10x5E prop, it pulled 14.1A and generated 24oz of thrust. This motor is the one that's going into my glider project so I tested it with an 8x6E pusher as well. 12.3A generating 17oz. I'm targeting slightly less that WOT at 8.8A/15oz. Still at 24oz, I can see why the Gemini behaved the way it did in a climb or loop. I'm very interested to see how almost doubling the thrust will change it's behavior.

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:11 pm

I picked up a foam glider over the weekend. I got the Lifoam Ultra flyer. It's a basic styrofoam molded glider with a 4.5' wing span (I haven't measured it to see how big it really is).

Here is the beast.

Image

Image

Well, it's cheap. Definitely cheap. As you can see in the following picture, the molds didn't even line up well. It's off by about 1/4".
Image

A bit of cleanup work will be needed elsewhere too.
Image

Now, some notes on the plane. I weighs 6oz as it comes from the bag, with no decals. There is significant flex the wings, tail surfaces, and in the fuselage at the narrowest spot right before it transitions into the tail. This is fine for it's original purpose, I'm sure, but for what I plan to do with it, some stiffening will be needed.

The wings are airfoils, but the trailing edge is 1/2" thick.
Image
I haven't decide whether I'm going to trim them down, or just build up the ailerons or something else.

I started by stiffening the wings with a 24" 5.8mm od carbon fiber rod, one in each wing. I learned something cutting the grooves -- styro makes short work of razor blades.

Here is a nice long straight groove. A metal straight edge does wonders.
Image

Pretty carbon fiber. The wing is much much stiffer, even with the rod just taped in place.
Image

Image

As somebody noted earlier in the thread, some sort of joiner tube is a must. In my one test flight of the stock glider, one of the wings popped out on landing, and that was just across the living room.

I set a 3/8" id brass tube in each wing (about 4" long) to mate with the joining tube.
Image

Image

A 3/8" od aluminum tube is used to join the wings.
Image

Yes, there is that much angle in the wings. I was actually pretty impressed how well I did installing the joining tubes.
Image

With the wings taken care of, it was time to start on the body. I trimmed the molding overlap off and sanded the fuselage. It's not totally symmetric due to the lousy molding, but it's a lot better than it was. To stiffen the fuselage along it's length, I used a 4.8mm CF rod running along the top and into the tail. The rod actually runs all the way to the back of the tail.
Image

A CF unicorn... (I trimmed it flush later)
Image

To add more strength to the weakest part of the body, I added a 3mm CF rod on either side.
Image

To keep the vertical stabilizer from flexing (it did, pretty easily) I embedded some more 3mm CF rod on either side of it.
Image

I did the same for the horizontal stabilizer as well, though I don't have any pictures of it yet. After about $25 of CF and $5 of brass and aluminum, I have a fairly nice, stiff airframe. I haven't epoxied anything in yet, it's all just taped. Total I added 2 oz of weight, bringing the airframe weight up to 8 oz. Once I add servos, motor, misc hardware, control surfaces, battery, etc, I expect I will add another 7.5-10oz. That would put me at around 18oz flying weight with 12-15oz of thrust. Interestingly enough, I am guestimating at wing loading of about 8-8.5oz/sq ft which is almost identical to my Gemini.

So I thought I'd keep a running tally of the project cost just for grins.

So far we have $8 for the glider, $25 for the CF, and $5 for the metal tubing, making the grand total to this point: $38.

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:05 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:Well, Ike kind of put a damper on flying this weekend, but I got to go fly almost every morning and evening last week. I would highly recommend the Gemini to anyone comfortable flying a plane with ailerons. It is quite docile except in gusty winds when it will tend to jump around a bit. I did pick up a new motor for it this weekend. Its a 450 class from Common Sense RC. With the 10x5E prop I have on it, it's rated at 44oz thrust.


Well, I got to go fly this morning and evening with new motor. Wow, it makes a difference. I can pull a loop from level flight now without worrying about stalling or shortening the top. I still couldn't really do 3d, except perhaps harriers, but then that's not the goal for this plane. Nor could I do an IMAC routine without very careful throttle management, but it is very good for general sport flying and acrobatics. I get about 10 minutes of spirited flying and acrobatics out of an 1800mAh 20C pack that ends up just warm to the touch.

The biggest problem I had was the new motor is actually 1/4 oz lighter than the prior so I need to re-balance the plane. For the time being through I just trimmed it out. Lots of fun. Now I suppose I need to get the heli out and practice with it some. I find I don't have near the problem with orientation with a plane that I do with a heli. Not sure why.

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:54 pm

Nice foam work! I learned while working with EPP that you either need to go high speed or high heat to get a clean cut without beading it out. EPS is a lot more forgiving, depending on the bead size. A dremel tool at top speed with a cutting bit won't tear at the foam as much as a razor, box cutter, or exacto knife. If you want a good surface on the inside of your channel cut you can set up a jig with a piece of wood and a soldering iron. Use an old soldering iron bit for this, you won't be using it for soldering anymore. Please don't melt any polyurethane foam, it will kill you.

Try gluing the rod in with gorilla glue, it will foam up to fill the space and you can cut it flush with the wing.

the wing "airfoil" is really, REALLY sad. It nearly looks as though the main wing would fly better backwards. You need to blunt the nose and sharpen the trailing edge. Sharpening the trailing edge while you do aileron construction is a good idea, but don't forget about that sharp leading edge, you will get really poor off-design performance the way it is now.

BTW, the tool engineer who made that mold without registration tabs makes the baby jesus cry.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:58 pm

Here's the plane I built. Foam is fun!
Image
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:51 am

Pretty cool story out of Stanford. I wonder if there's a movie in it somewhere? "Computer network teaches other computers to learn, fly military aircraft ...".

Nah. :lol:
This problem was caused by Windows, which was created by Microsoft Corporation.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:44 am

SpotTheCat wrote:Try gluing the rod in with gorilla glue, it will foam up to fill the space and you can cut it flush with the wing.

the wing "airfoil" is really, REALLY sad. It nearly looks as though the main wing would fly better backwards. You need to blunt the nose and sharpen the trailing edge. Sharpening the trailing edge while you do aileron construction is a good idea, but don't forget about that sharp leading edge, you will get really poor off-design performance the way it is now.


Actually, I'm planning on using a line of epoxy at the bottom of the groove to bond the CF rod, then a 50/50 or 25/75 mix of epoxy/microbeads to fill in the groove around the CF rod and make a smooth surface.

As far as the wing goes, yeah it's a horrid airfoil. I can't imagine it would have changed the mold price significantly to make it at least semi-symmetric. I intend to round off the bottom of the leading edge and sand it down. I'm thinking I am going to make a 1 1/2" extension for the back of each wing that tapers down from 1/2" to 1/4-1/8" and glue it to the trailing edge. The ailerons would be cut out of that extension.

--SS
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Controlled Flight Into Terrain....

Postposted on Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:08 pm

Those that have exposure to the aviation industry are probably familiar with the term CFIT. This is what it looks like when done to a Multiplex Gemini.
Image

I hit hard enough to leave a divot in the turf. I was about 25 feet up banked into a steep turn and I'm pretty sure I stalled the inside wing. It rolled over towards the inside of the turn and spiraled into the ground at flight speed. I am actually really impressed with how the plane held up. It's nothing some Elapor soup and a bit of CA can't fix.

Elapor doesn't break so much at tear. Here is a close up that shows how clean the tear really is.
Image

The biggest problem is that I snapped the motor mount clean in two.
Image
This is probably actually a good thing as it may have saved the motor, which appears to have no damage, not even a bent shaft.

Image

I cooked up the soup already this evening and I must say it does a fine job. Once it has all dried, I'll get out the CA. If this thing repairs half as well as it looks like it will, my next plane will almost certainly be a Multiplex Acromaster. This stuff in amazing.

--SS
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After repair

Postposted on Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:43 pm

So I finished the repairs this evening. I did end up having to change out the motor shaft too. I think it had more than one bend in it since I was pretty well unable to straighten it. All in all, I'm very impressed. I'm sitting at my desk with the Gemini hanging from the ceiling where it is stored and I can't tell it was repaired at all.

But, on with the pictures.

You can make out the remnants of the tear, especially since the break in the decal gives it away.
Image

I looks pretty good and straight from the front, especially considering I tried to use the nose to dig a hole.
Image

Underneath is all nicely lined up.
Image

Considering what this looked like before, the only real hint is the torn decal. The flash accentuates the uneveness of the repair, but in person you probably couldn't find it if I didn't point it out.
Image

To be fair, things don't quite fit as well as before the crash. A lot of that has to do with the more rounded nature of the edges where the foam got dunked. There is also a subtle change in the shape of the nose, it's shorter too. The water bath (and a bit of a hot air gun) did wonders, but if you know what to look for, you can still tell.
Image


Still, time to go fly again! :)
Image

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:20 pm

I have a story to tell about what happens when you throw a motor in flight, but that's for a later time. The ending is that the Gemini survived with only some prop nicks on the nose and a broken motor mount.

More importantly, I have a new bird to add to the collection.

http://www.carlgoldbergproducts.com/airplanes/gbga1020.html

Mine is blue and yellow. It will be a long term project as I want to get past the stage of frequent crashes prior to going to fly a balsa/ply built plane.

*edit* link fixed
--SS
Last edited by SecretSquirrel on Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:15 pm

Link is busted.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:32 pm

Slap a lower case "L" on the end of the link.
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Saturday at the club field...

Postposted on Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:20 pm

I headed out to the club field this Saturday. The weather was absolutely gorgeous -- about 85F, light to non-existent winds and partly cloudy. The only problem was that it was rather hazy which made it hard to tell orientation at a distance. I had four good flights and only ended up wheels to the sky on two of the landings. Best of all the jets were out. Want to talk about impressive to watch, and hear.

We won't discuss how much money is sitting on this table. I arrived a few minutes too late to see it fly.
Image

This one I did get to see fly. It was an extremely beautiful airplane.
Image

He almost hit the grass on take off. Prior to this take off run, he did end up in the grass. Turns out the front gear steering servo was going south. I though he was a bit nuts to take off anyway.
Image

Once you no longer have the ground for a sense of scale, it's really hard to tell this isn't a full sized plane, especially since, unlink glow powered planes, a model jet sounds just like the real thing.
Image

Image

Despite the bad steering servo, he made on of the best landings of all the planes during the day and made for a great photo-op on the way back to the pits.
Image

There was also a nice P51 that made an appearance and did several, requisite, low altitude, high speed passes. This is actually an ARF kit, but it's only real fault is that it looks too perfect.
Image

Coming in for a nice smooth landing...
Image

Yours truly in the pilots box. I managed to not make a fool of myself. :)
Image

My 10 year old daughter caught me hard at work prepping for the next flight...
Image

And my wife got the posed shot as we were leaving.
Image

All in all, a really fun day. I've got the Blade 400 on the display shelf and I need to finish rebuilding the head, but it's still up in the air (no pun intended) whether I will sell it off.

--SS
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Re: Saturday at the club field...

Postposted on Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:49 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:There was also a nice P51 that made an appearance and did several, requisite, low altitude, high speed passes. This is actually an ARF kit, but it's only real fault is that it looks too perfect.

Great pics. When I someday win PowerBall, my first stupid-money purchase will be a P-51. A real one. Of course, I'll then need the gastric bypass surgery to shrink my butt to the point where I can shimmy into the cockpit, but I'll still be able to fire up the Merlin and listen to it.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:23 pm

SS you need to get some sun on your legs they almost blinded me.

I picked up a helicopter for my 5 year old yesterday. Its the E Flite Micro Blade CX He was doing fairly well hovering it in the living room last night and didn't break anything.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:15 am

Hance wrote:SS you need to get some sun on your legs they almost blinded me.


I am a geek after all. :) Actually, it's funny since I usually keep a fairly decent tan since I spend a fair amount of time outside. It certainly doesn't look it in the pics though.

Hance wrote:I picked up a helicopter for my 5 year old yesterday. Its the E Flite Micro Blade CX He was doing fairly well hovering it in the living room last night and didn't break anything.


Is it that docile? I've been wanting one, but having the CX2, I don't really have any justification.

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:04 am

Yeah it is that docile. it will hover hands off for probably a minute at a time. My boy got it stuck to the ceiling a couple of times but thats about it. I think even my wife could fly it :o
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:40 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
SpotTheCat wrote:Try gluing the rod in with gorilla glue, it will foam up to fill the space and you can cut it flush with the wing.

the wing "airfoil" is really, REALLY sad. It nearly looks as though the main wing would fly better backwards. You need to blunt the nose and sharpen the trailing edge. Sharpening the trailing edge while you do aileron construction is a good idea, but don't forget about that sharp leading edge, you will get really poor off-design performance the way it is now.


Actually, I'm planning on using a line of epoxy at the bottom of the groove to bond the CF rod, then a 50/50 or 25/75 mix of epoxy/microbeads to fill in the groove around the CF rod and make a smooth surface.

As far as the wing goes, yeah it's a horrid airfoil. I can't imagine it would have changed the mold price significantly to make it at least semi-symmetric. I intend to round off the bottom of the leading edge and sand it down. I'm thinking I am going to make a 1 1/2" extension for the back of each wing that tapers down from 1/2" to 1/4-1/8" and glue it to the trailing edge. The ailerons would be cut out of that extension.

--SS
when you do the microballoons, don't do a set mix... I usually use about 10:1 mixture of balloons to resin... but I don't measure it. Instead I just start with a little epoxy and mix in balloons until it is fluffy. The less epoxy the better as long as it holds together homogeneously.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:12 pm

SpotTheCat wrote:when you do the microballoons, don't do a set mix... I usually use about 10:1 mixture of balloons to resin... but I don't measure it. Instead I just start with a little epoxy and mix in balloons until it is fluffy. The less epoxy the better as long as it holds together homogeneously.


Thanks for the recipe. My wife will tell you I never measure anything, I just mix till it looks right. :) However, I have no idea what looks right here so the hint is good. I am assuming that at that ratio there is not much bonding strength and it mainly works as a filler?

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:59 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
SpotTheCat wrote:when you do the microballoons, don't do a set mix... I usually use about 10:1 mixture of balloons to resin... but I don't measure it. Instead I just start with a little epoxy and mix in balloons until it is fluffy. The less epoxy the better as long as it holds together homogeneously.


Thanks for the recipe. My wife will tell you I never measure anything, I just mix till it looks right. :) However, I have no idea what looks right here so the hint is good. I am assuming that at that ratio there is not much bonding strength and it mainly works as a filler?

--SS

Yep, it's still very strong in compression though, and you shouldn't be using a space filler in tension anyways. When you make it lighter like that it also makes it sand a little better, just make sure and let it cure thoroughly (it cures better in higher heat, especially in small quantities).

Extra-light drywall is a lot easier to use, however, so I don't use microballoons outside of serious projects unless I need more durability or water resistance.

As far as gluing in carbon rods goes, you lose a lot of the weight advantage of the carbon when you epoxy it in. Using a small amount of expanding polyurethane glue ("gorilla glue") gives you great space filling adhesion. You can use microbaloons/drywall on the very outer surface to make it smooth if you want, but I would just as soon use a really light piece of tape over the polyurethane. I just find it weird to spend $12 or whatever on an extra-light carbon rods while filling holes with epoxy.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:47 pm

Just an FYI for anyone interested, my Blade 400 and accessories are going up for sale. They will show up in the Bargain Basement here shortly. I came to the conclusion that as much as I like my heli, my planes give me a higher fun to effort ratio.

*edit* Here is is: http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=62382

--SS
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New bird...

Postposted on Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:06 pm

Well, I broke down and got it...

Image

Image

It's a 60 size Seagull models Edge 540 with a 1.00 Saito 4 stroke in it. Has everything but the receiver. Picked it up for $330. To top it off, the guy threw in a second, stripped, airframe. I was wavering a bit and he really wanted to make the sale. :)

Image

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:35 pm

I really like the way that plane looks.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:11 pm

Well, I got to go out and fly the new plane this weekend. I put four tanks through it and for being a third hand plane, I performs admirably. I re-balanced it last week, but it's still a little tale heavy. It's certainly not uncontrollable, but as the fuel gets down, it gets more and more pronounced. I probably need to add an ounce or two to the nose. Fuel consumption is about an ounce per minute with normal flying and mild aerobatics. I'm not a real fan of the sound of small two cycle glow engines, but the bigger four stroke sounds awesome. Flying around, it sounds like a real plane. All in all, I got on heck of a deal. :)

--SS
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:17 pm

Hance....make this for me. I've been a good boy all year, and I need a new toy!

Please...???
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:31 pm

Looking for Knowledge wrote:Hance....make this for me. I've been a good boy all year, and I need a new toy!

Please...???

Combine that with the targeting system floating around on the net and that would be sweet. RC helicopter autopilot is going to come a long way in the next few decades too. It will probably be possible to build your own killbot for a few grand in 25 years.
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Re: Radio Control Hobbies

Postposted on Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:04 am

That thing scares the crap out of me. I have seen to many radio glitches make a helicopter do the dead chicken dance. A helicopter doing the dead chicken dance spraying bullets all over the place just aint cool.
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