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Darkmage wrote:

She did exceptionally well in the class. 0.5 MOA group at 600 yards, in fact.

Three inches, you say? Wow.

Did they supply the rifles or are those yours?

Vrock wrote:

Three inches, you say? Wow.
Did they supply the rifles or are those yours?

Yeah, it blew my mind, too. I saw the target afterwards and unfortunately they taped up her bullet holes before we could get a picture of it. The way they handle 600 yard shooting is they let you shoot two strings of five shots, then they have you get off the rifle and verify that the line is empty. After that, some of the instructors scurry out in a truck and mark up your targets with stickers so you can see where you hit through your scope. They then walk down the line of targets and relay back where you hit over the radio. Once that's done, they patch up the target and scurry back into cover before the next group starts shooting. SWMBO got a round of applause when the radio squawks out "yeah, there's a half-minute group in B3..." Alas, they had taped up her target despite it being the last string of fire for the class.

We bought rifles just for this class and they performed very well. We had a couple friends driving to the class from Michigan and they opted to rent rifles from the school. I believe they were the personal rifles of a couple of the instructors. As you can imagine, they were some impressive pieces of hardware. I got a chance to shoot one of the rented FN rifles and it was a thing of beauty.

I can't take credit for all of it, but the handloads I worked up for her rifle helped a lot. I don't know where the hell you would find match .243 Winchester rounds. I really lucked out with my initial loads tests for her rifle - I think I stumbled onto a great recipe out of dumb luck.

Lee Enfield No.4 Mk1 with a Parker Hale no4 range sight, made in the Birmingham Small Arms Factory in 1944. Crazy accurate to 500yards (though I'm a good enough shot to about half that distance).

Dear Gun Manufacturers,

Please stop putting rails on pistols, especially older designs like the 1911 and M9. They're ugly, and let's be honest: even the vast majority of military folks don't use them. If you must put rails on stuff to attract the idiot tacticool crowd, at least offer a non-railed version for the normal people. Thank you.

Dear Gun Manufacturers,

Don't listen to that old stick-in-the-mud, Vrock. I for one appreciate the ability to attach a flashlight to the pistol. I especially appreciate the ability to only purchase one light and move it between pistols instead of having to buy a separate model of light for each $#?!! pistol I own. Especially since only one manufacturer bothered to make a light for my Walther P99 and its #$?!! proprietary rail.

That said, the rails on top of the pistol? That can stop right now.

Love and bullets,

Darkmage

[Edited for grammar]

I'm with Darkmage on this one. I don't care what the vast majority of military folks do or don't do, I like a light on my bedside firearm. If you don't like the rails on the newer 1911's etc., don't buy them. I have a Colt Defender and an older RIA 1911 I'll sell you, almost free! No rails included.

ooho, how much for the RIA 1911? I mean if it's almost free I might can afford it! (Good luck on the ammo though).

Damn, it is good to be connected into your local gun culture scene.

Through my vast network of connections, dead drops, stashes and backstage passes to the local gun show... I just scored 8 pounds of IMR 4895. I've had a similar amount backordered since January. This stuff is rarer than Justin Bieber pubic hairs.

If only this had happened before the long range class. Sigh.

There is no excuse for a revolver with dual rails. Gag.

Darkmage wrote:

Damn, it is good to be connected into your local gun culture scene.

Through my vast network of connections, dead drops, stashes and backstage passes to the local gun show... I just scored 8 pounds of IMR 4895. I've had a similar amount backordered since January. This stuff is rarer than Justin Bieber pubic hairs.

If only this had happened before the long range class. Sigh.

I'm on my last pound of H4895 now. As you said there's no rifle powder to be found at any of the local shops. Should probably last a while for me though since I don't do much rifle shooting these days.

Looking for Knowledge wrote:

I'm with Darkmage on this one. I don't care what the vast majority of military folks do or don't do, I like a light on my bedside firearm. If you don't like the rails on the newer 1911's etc., don't buy them. I have a Colt Defender and an oer RIA 1911 I'll sell you, almost free! No rails included.

All that flashlight does is make you an easy target. And hey, how much for that Colt?

The light will help me make it to the shotgun.

I wasn't serious about selling either firearm, just yanking your chain. Though I like the ninja rails on poly-operator handguns, the non-railed 1911 format is my all time favorite.

Vrock wrote:

Looking for Knowledge wrote:

I'm with Darkmage on this one. I don't care what the vast majority of military folks do or don't do, I like a light on my bedside firearm. If you don't like the rails on the newer 1911's etc., don't buy them. I have a Colt Defender and an oer RIA 1911 I'll sell you, almost free! No rails included.

All that flashlight does is make you an easy target. And hey, how much for that Colt?

Agreed. I prefer to hold my flashlight in the other hand.

Just to keep the pictures going, let me tell you about possibly the weirdest gun I've shot to date. A couple weekends ago, a friend of mine from work invited me & SWMBO to go shooting in Maryland. We drove out there, had a great time, etc. etc. etc. But he let me shoot this black powder pistol. I've never shot black powder pistol before. It's kind of neat. In a "can you believe they did this crap before modern technology?" way.

So, here's SWMBO shooting the thing:


For those of you who don't know, there's an entire process to loading this thing. The Friend had a portable brass powder measure, a tin can full of black powder, a bunch of wads he had cut with a hole punch, a box full of lead shot and a tub of Crisco. If he wasn't older than dirt, I'd be afraid for my sphincters. Anyhow, you build the rounds one at a time and use the pistol's built-in bullet press to get the shot into the cylinder. Shooting it was kind of fun, as it doesn't push out the round at particularly high velocities. And it makes a hell of a cloud. But it was fun.

A few years back on this thread, Vrock was talking about the satisfaction of reloading your own rounds and shooting off something you made yourself. This was very much like that.

Bought a new gun and had empty my safe so i could recut the shelves in my safe hold it. Pointlessly decided to stack my ammo while it was out of the safe to see how much there was when combined...



spoiler alert: it was almost 4 feet tall (yes, camera phone image)

and for the curious, that stack consists (in descending order of quantity, for whoever might care) 5.56x45, 7.62x51, 9mm, 12GA, 5.7x28, 50AE, 50BMG.

Will be posting images of the guns they go with before long..

on a side note, looking for knowledge, how much does your ar-15 50bmg conversion weigh?

5.7mm eh? How do you like it? What do you have that shoots it?

Last night, I decided to re-read this thread from the beginning. I need to do this more often. Why? Because I keep running into good advice that Vrock gave me about reloading. Lessons that I had to learn again because I forgot that Vrock told 'em to me. Off the top of my head:

• Lee dies are awesome.
• RCBS dies are too expensive for what you get
• Rub dryer sheets on your powder drop to prevent powder from sticking
• Run a full cylinder of powder through your powder drop to coat it
• When you start loading rifle, let Vrock know so he can give advice
• Look into the Franklin Arsenal digital scale (still haven't done that)

If I had only listened...

Speaking of which: Hey Vrock! I'm loading rifle now. Any advice?

godforsaken wrote:

on a side note, looking for knowledge, how much does your ar-15 50bmg conversion weigh?

26lbs total. The scoped upper is 21lbs, the lower is 5lbs (includes lead wedge in stock).

wanted to put better pictures up here, but, im too lazy at the moment.. or.. for the last few years, one of those... anyways..

Left, from top down: AR-50A1 (50bmg), AR-30 (308/7.62x51), Walther MP5 22lr (yes, walther, not HK), five-seven (5.7x28), RAAC/Akdal MKA-1919 (12-gauge)

Right, again, top down: Desert eagle Mk.XIX (50AE), p90 (5.7x28), FS2000 (5.56x45), 92fs Inox (9mm)

picture taken the day i got the ar-50, hense the lack of scope/bipod/other random accessories.. had to take all guns out of safe to recut shelves, so took a picture then...

Darkmage wrote:

5.7mm eh? How do you like it? What do you have that shoots it?

^should answer your question
and as for how i like it? i like it fine... but, im no expert, contrary to that collections inclination, im fairly new to shooting, i bought my first gun just about 2 and a half years ago, along with the fact that there aren't many places to shoot where i'm at

Wow, you have some nice stuff there. All that black and plastic will make Vrock cry!

For the sake of wood: A friend passed this on to me today. A Savage made Enfield No.4 Mk1*.

My every day carry S&W6906.

godforsaken wrote:

Left, from top down: AR-50 (50bmg), AR-30 (308/7.62x51, Walther MP5 22lr (yes, walther, not HK), five-seven (5.7x28), RAAC/Akdal MKA-1919 (12-gauge) Right, again, top down: Desert eagle Mk.XIX (50AE), p90 (5.7x28), FS2000 (5.56x45), 92fs Inox (9mm)

[Drool]
That's quite the collection you have there. You are a man after my own heart. Which reminds me, I need body armor.

I would be interested in knowing why you made these particular selections. And your ammo shelf must be similarly diverse. [Doh! Look two posts up, Darkmage] What kind of glass did you put on the FS2000? What kind of groups do you get? I put a cheap reflex sight on mine, and I admit I didn't even consider a magnified optic.

It's a pity there are few places to shoot in your area. You'd be quite popular at any range.

C10 250 wrote:

My every day carry S&W6906.

This makes me grin. That is a workhorse and it's obviously not a safe queen.

Darkmage, I thought of you when I saw THIS today.

LFK: 26 pounds huh? how does it hold? armalite says the AR-50a1 is 34 pounds, i havent weighed it myself, but, i really really dont doubt it... and all the weight is (as with yours, im sure) at the far end, the barrel is 1 3/8" thick at the smallest point, giving the barrel almost a half inch thickness... so holding it out while standing it up, takes every ounce of stength ive got... not that theres any point to actually holding it like that... lastly, have you shot it yet?

and Darkmage, Its just a barska 4-16x50, fairly cheap, and my groupings, i dont remeber, the one time i went with my trirail foregrip replacement i brought the wrong bi-pod, which was too damned tall so i couldnt get a good steady hold on the gun, otherwise i was shooting it standing up, also, your FS2000, have you had any problems with it yet? Ive had to replace the charging handle (snapped off the gun) with an aluminum one i found online, along with having to shim the barrel where it connects to the rest of the gun... really pissed me off that i had to do that, though, otherwise, i really like the gun.. and to your statement earlier? Considering a few of the guns in the picture, if i was a man after your heart, body armor would not help...

godforsaken wrote:

LFK: 26 pounds huh? how does it hold? armalite says the AR-50a1 is 34 pounds, i havent weighed it myself, but, i really really dont doubt it... and all the weight is (as with yours, im sure) at the far end, the barrel is 1 3/8" thick at the smallest point, giving the barrel almost a half inch thickness... so holding it out while standing it up, takes every ounce of stength ive got... not that theres any point to actually holding it like that... lastly, have you shot it yet?

Mine is pretty balanced with the lead weight in the stock, and I believe the barrel on mine is a few inches shorter than the AR50a1. It has a built in bi-pod, and I have not stretched it's legs (so to speak) past a couple hundred yards. I've shot it while standing, and have let others do so as well. With the big brake on the end, its' recoil is similar to a 12GA, IMO. Yes, I have shot it; somewhere close to 20 times, so relatively few times compared to other rifles. It's not a plinker for sure! Mostly I take it to shooting events and let people put a round or two through it for the experience.

Darkmage wrote:

5.7mm eh? How do you like it? What do you have that shoots it?

Last night, I decided to re-read this thread from the beginning. I need to do this more often. Why? Because I keep running into good advice that Vrock gave me about reloading. Lessons that I had to learn again because I forgot that Vrock told 'em to me. Off the top of my head:

• Lee dies are awesome.
• RCBS dies are too expensive for what you get
• Rub dryer sheets on your powder drop to prevent powder from sticking
• Run a full cylinder of powder through your powder drop to coat it
• When you start loading rifle, let Vrock know so he can give advice
• Look into the Franklin Arsenal digital scale (still haven't done that)

If I had only listened...

Speaking of which: Hey Vrock! I'm loading rifle now. Any advice?

Heh. Maybe a little.

1. Go slow. Rifle cases require more prep than pistols. Lube, for starters. Find a good case lube (Lee lube is slow but works great, Hornady One Shot is fast and works okay.

2. Referencing 1) above: Rifle brass stretches, in some guns more than others. Check every case to make sure it's not overlength, and if it is, trim it. Overlength rifle brass is bad juju, can cause big pressure spikes if the mouth of the case is shoved into the throat of the barrel. Plus, unless you're using a dedicated crimp die, you need all your brass the same length in order to crimp properly. Clean every primer pocket, every time. Dirty primer pockets can prevent primers from seating fully, which can cause slam fires in certain rifles. Also not good.

2. Use starting to mid range loads. Max loads use more powder, hurt more, and often are less accurate. Paper doesn't know the difference between 2,800 fps and 2,900 fps, and most animals don't either. Your shoulder, your wallet, and your gun does though, and all three will thank you for it.

3. One powder does not fit all if you want the best accuracy. When I started loading rifle I wanted to stick with just a single powder for simplicity and economy. I chose a 8 pound jug of H4895. It's very versatile...I can load everything from .223 to 8mm Mauser to 6.5 x 55mm Swede to 7.62 x 39mm, but if you aren't getting the groups you want, what's the point?

4. Disassemble and clean your dies periodically. Case lube tends to build up and leave a sticky mess on the inside of them.

5. Cartridge OAL is very important with rifle, especially if you load to near maximums: too long, the bullet touches the lands and you get excessive pressures...or it won't even fit in the magazine. Too short, the case volume is reduced and you get excessive pressures.

C10 250 wrote:

My every day carry S&W6906.

Third Gen Smiths were fine auto pistols. Shame they don't make them anymore.

Looking for Knowledge wrote:

Wow, you have some nice stuff there. All that black and plastic will make Vrock cry!

For the sake of wood: A friend passed this on to me today. A Savage made Enfield No.4 Mk1*.

I'll never call an Enfield pretty, but man, that's a nice specimen. It's either been refinished or never issued. Either way, I'm jealous!

godforsaken wrote:

wanted to put better pictures up here, but, im too lazy at the moment.. or.. for the last few years, one of those... anyways..

Left, from top down: AR-50A1 (50bmg), AR-30 (308/7.62x51), Walther MP5 22lr (yes, walther, not HK), five-seven (5.7x28), RAAC/Akdal MKA-1919 (12-gauge)

Right, again, top down: Desert eagle Mk.XIX (50AE), p90 (5.7x28), FS2000 (5.56x45), 92fs Inox (9mm)

picture taken the day i got the ar-50, hense the lack of scope/bipod/other random accessories.. had to take all guns out of safe to recut shelves, so took a picture then...

Darkmage wrote:

5.7mm eh? How do you like it? What do you have that shoots it?

^should answer your question
and as for how i like it? i like it fine... but, im no expert, contrary to that collections inclination, im fairly new to shooting, i bought my first gun just about 2 and a half years ago, along with the fact that there aren't many places to shoot where i'm at

Holy Jebus. At the risk of going R&P, that picture would make Sen. Feinstein cry.

Looking for Knowledge wrote:

Darkmage, I thought of you when I saw THIS today.

Oh hell yeah. The Tavor has been the buzz of the bullpup crowd for a few months. It's definitely on the wishlist, but it unfortunately has to take a back seat to taxes, fixing the wet basement and now SWMBO wants to redo a bathroom. But at some point, I expect I'll see one in my safe.

godforsaken wrote:

also, your FS2000, have you had any problems with it yet? Ive had to replace the charging handle (snapped off the gun) with an aluminum one i found online, along with having to shim the barrel where it connects to the rest of the gun... really pissed me off that i had to do that, though, otherwise, i really like the gun..

The only problems I've had with my FS2000 have been with the magazines. The FS2000 only takes STANAG magazines, so the nifty Magpul stuff is right out. Additionally, I have found that a full magazine has trouble stripping off the very first round. Best to download them by 2. I have also learned to be a litte rough with it. My loading routine now includes a hefty slap on the bottom of the mag to insure proper seating. The o-ring on the magwell is great at keeping dirt out, but it can lead one to thinking the mag is seated when it is not. As an aside, I had a new shooter discover that the o-ring will allow you to seat the magazine upside down(!) and have it retained. Needless to say, it doesn't feed well like that.

I've been considering the aluminum charging handle, but mine has been good so far. Why did you have to shim the barrel? Isn't it a free float?

Vrock wrote:

I'll never call an Enfield pretty, but man, that's a nice specimen. It's either been refinished or never issued. Either way, I'm jealous!

Agreed. As a plastic-and-kydex guy, even I think that's a pretty rifle.

Vrock wrote:

5. Cartridge OAL is very important with rifle, especially if you load to near maximums: too long, the bullet touches the lands and you get excessive pressures...or it won't even fit in the magazine. Too short, the case volume is reduced and you get excessive pressures.

QFT. Headspacing/overpressure issues almost always result in dimples in the shoulders of the ejected brass. If you handload, you have to faithfully retrieve and inspect your brass as it's the best evidence you have of issues with your load. The Rem 760 .270 I now own was a beast for which to develop a reliable handload, and that was on '70s-vintage H4831. Dad got to do the shooting, while I was stuck with maintaining the brass. It's been a good 35 years or so but I will never forget the cartridge trimmer or the damn lube pad.