Any galsout there? (The thread that won't die)

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Postposted on Mon Mar 11, 2002 11:38 pm

No, i'm not trying to pick up chicks on TR but i was seriously wondering if any women peruse this site.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 0oALio0 on 2002-03-27 18:40 ]</font>
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Postposted on Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:03 pm

guess not
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Postposted on Tue Mar 12, 2002 8:23 pm

What difference does it make if some of us are female?

Do you not see that asking the question, particularly in those words, might tend to keep the women among us from admitting it?

I readily admit that women are rare on sites such as Tech Report, but given the history of women in the enthusiast/gamer community (and I <i>am</i> talking about a certain Quake-playing female, among others), a bit of thought should make it obvious why some might choose to avoid exposing their gender.

That does <i>not</i> mean we're not here, though.
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Postposted on Tue Mar 12, 2002 8:42 pm

Whoosh! That's the sound of the last post going right over my head. Is this a gamer thing?
You are false data.
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Postposted on Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:29 pm

Speed, one reference was to Killcreek and her implants, and the gamers' reaction to/treatment of her during and after that episode. I might also mention the extremely unfriendly atmosphere of most LAN gaming (and there I'm referring specifically to the verbal interactions, which are misogynistic in the extreme).

So yes, it <i>is</i> a gamer thing of sorts - a particularly ugly one.
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Postposted on Tue Mar 12, 2002 10:29 pm

I'm sorry to hear about that, Tesserae. Since I'm not a gamer, I'm a bit ignorant of the references. Well, you can always choose your friends from a different pool. :smile:
You are false data.
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Postposted on Tue Mar 12, 2002 10:56 pm

What words would you suggest tesserae?
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:23 am

Tesserae, i uderstand where u are coming from, about two years ago my little sister came to me asking about starcaft, because boys in her class were talking about it and when she asked they laughed, and she tells them she could beat them anytime.... even tho she had never played the game a day in her life, so i put the game on her computer and let her play it and beat it...then we played over the lan and i beat in her 3 minutes....after about 2 months of playing me and playing online she told the boys at her school to meet us online for some 2v4 action and later that night we played....about a minute into the game i was disconnect from the server (damn 56k!) so i ran down to her room, but before i could say anything she yelled out "look they suck i have killed 2 of them already!" and i proceeded to watch her beat all 4 of them, not the mention she left a unit on each base so they could watch there friends get beat and when it was all said and done she typed " u have just been beat by a girl" it was very fun to watch, even tho she never beat me (but she came closer than i wanted her to last time we played) i have seen her put a whippen on quite a few fokes... i think once u show u can play anyone will respect u (i play games with the name "Nelliesboo" :razz: )
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:41 am

Speed, I <i>do</i> choose my friends from a different pool.

0oALio0, are you suggesting that deprecation must necessarily be part of gaming, and that it's merely a choice of whom to deprecate? I would certainly hope that's not the case.

Nelliesboo, good for your sister! But it's not a question of whether or not gaming is open to females as well as males; rather, my objection is to the misogyny which is rampant during these contests. Would it be acceptable to replace "Suck it down, bitch!" with "Suck it down, kike!"? Or perhaps "I 0wn j00, bitch!" with "I 0wn j00, nigger!"? I seriously doubt it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tesserae on 2002-03-12 23:48 ]</font>
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:13 am

last time i checked she could hold her own in whatever it came down to, let people know whats up and if they dont like it well then MAKE THEM..........u can only be walked on if u let people do it

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nelliesboo on 2002-03-13 00:14 ]</font>
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:52 pm

On 2002-03-12 23:41, Tesserae wrote:
Speed, I <i>do</i> choose my friends from a different pool.

0oALio0, are you suggesting that deprecation must necessarily be part of gaming, and that it's merely a choice of whom to deprecate? I would certainly hope that's not the case.

Nelliesboo, good for your sister! But it's not a question of whether or not gaming is open to females as well as males; rather, my objection is to the misogyny which is rampant during these contests. Would it be acceptable to replace "Suck it down, bitch!" with "Suck it down, kike!"? Or perhaps "I 0wn j00, bitch!" with "I 0wn j00, nigger!"? I seriously doubt it.


I don't think that qualifies as mysogyny. Poor choice of words perhaps, but the intent is not ment to berate women at the LAN parties I attend. I have heard/used "bitch", "skank", "mutt", "puppy", "lamer", "llama", "loser", "punk", "fag", etc... all used interchangeably. Most men I know have nothing against women per se, but still would ratehr be men than women, if given the choice; although that's a whole nother discussion right there... The point is, its just choosing something that the person being teased does not wish to be called, and using that to taunt them. For example, I have very little skin pigmentation, so i get called "whitey" or "albino". Why? Because it gets under my skin, breaks my concentration, and makes it easier for my opponnets to school me. But I can target them right back with insults that are germane to them in particular, or any of the generic ones I mentioned earlier. And I have used "kike" and "nigger" in these situations in case you are wondering. We have both individuals of Jewish-American (technically I am) and African-American (although I dont like those terms, I am an Unhypehenated-American as far as I am concerned). And I have been called a "nigger" as well. Does this make us immature? Maybe. Is anyone truly offended? Not that I have seen; because its all supposed to be in fun. If any of my friends were truly insulted/outraged by something I said, I have little doubt that they would let me know; we're a rather blunt/confontation bunch. So far, no brawls or verbal barrages have errupted at any LAN that I have attended.
For better or worse, taunting is part of the LAN gaming environment; it's somewhat offensive because its supposed to be. The same things oocrur in competetive physical sports as well, it seems to be the nature of any form of competition.

A woman gaming in this environment (and we have had it happen) would not be treated any better or worse. I have been told to "suck it, bitch!" by a women in a LAN environment, after she had just fragged me. I don't think she was offended, and neither was I.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lenzenm on 2002-03-13 11:58 ]</font>
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:42 pm

I game. I game a lot. When I refer to someone as a "bitch", I'm not degrading any woman who doesn't think of herself in those terms. I'm not even referring to women at all (unless I'm playing against one, which is, of course, rare). I'm degrading the person I'm referring to, and it's all in fun. I'm frequently called that (and much worse), too, and it doesn't bother me any more than being called a bastard (I'm not one of those, either). Maybe women don't enjoy games in the same way, but I tend to think it adds to the game to be able to insult your opponents, which is why I typically prefer to play with people I know at LAN's. I have seen women at LAN parties before, and I would think they'd take offense to the lame-ass losers hitting on them because they're THERE before they'd take offense at someone hurling an insult at someone else. If you're really that uptight about what insults other people use toward each other, I feel sorry for you. Oh, and the term most often used isn't "Bitch" at all, it's "Beeyotch" or "Bizatch" or any variation on the original term (and doesn't that term apply to dogs, not women, anyway?).

-St. B

BTW, in case you think I'm some mysoginistic prick, I'm married, was raised in a single parent (mother) environment, and have nothing but the utmost repect for women.
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 2:05 pm

Maybe women avoid TR because of stupid threads like this one :smile:
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:04 pm

I agree with lenzenm.

Particularly on this note:

<I>"For better or worse, taunting is part of the LAN gaming environment; it's somewhat offensive because its supposed to be. The same things oocrur in competetive physical sports as well, it seems to be the nature of any form of competition."</I>

The taunting is one of those things that seems to go with LAN parties like milk goes with cookies, Peanut butter with Jelly, Whips with Chains :wink: etc...

Seriously, if anything it is more an expression of cameraderie than anything else, a way of verbalizing the competition. The actual intent ( intent being somwhat essential to make the case for misogyny ) was independent of the exact phraseology ( I 've heard every epithet used at one time or another ) used and amounted to the same thing: <B>A coarse way of conveying the correct impression that one is all over someone else like a hobo on a ham-sandwich</B> :smile:

Our group has been hosting monthly LAN parties since '97. One thing that I have noticed is that you can tell someone is geniunely PO'd when they are NOT talking smack. Anecdotally, I'd say one of the more memorable smack-talkers we had was a woman who played with us. One of her favorites was along the lines of: "nothing like leaving an enemy battered and bleeding from every orifice" :smile:
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:40 pm

On 2002-03-13 13:05, cRock wrote:
Maybe women avoid TR because of stupid threads like this one :smile:


I don't think it's stupid. I was honestly wondering if any women peruse this site because in my *limited* experience, i have noticed that females tend to be less interested (or perhaps pressured to be less interested) in technology.
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Postposted on Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:54 pm

Heh. Lots o' excuses. I think a number of you need to examine why you find it necessary to make deprecating remarks at all.
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:12 am

On 2002-03-13 16:54, Speed wrote:
Heh. Lots o' excuses. I think a number of you need to examine why you find it necessary to make deprecating remarks at all.




Excuses? It's in FUN. It IS fun! That's why. Ne excuse is necessary.
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:43 am

<I>On 2002-03-13 16:54, Speed wrote:
Heh. Lots o' excuses. I think a number of you need to examine why you find it necessary to make deprecating remarks at all.</I>

Bah! Rumor and Speculation! :grin:

Deprecating implies that you are actually intending to devalue somebody, personally.
It completely misses the point that it is not personal at all. It is MUCH closer to coarse humor than anything else.

If you <I>ever</I> laughed at something in South Park at all, don't preach to me about talking smack at a LAN party. :wink:

Update: I'm going to our monthly frag-fest tomorrow. During the UT, Q3: Generations mod, and MW4, I shall talk much smack. :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Princess Die on 2002-03-14 09:51 ]</font>
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:09 am

What exactly is a LAN party? Some kinda get together for gaming? Sorry if this is a stoopid question, but I have heard that term, but never really gave it much thought. What do you do, carry your own case??? Or is it all a laptop thing. (shudders in thinking about q3 on a laptop)
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:14 am

That's right. You setup a LAN with some friends at a location with your own computers. Usually you rotate through several games such as RTCW or Quake 3 and drink a lot of mountain dew. I've never done one myself but seems like fun.
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:18 am

"For better or worse, taunting is part of the LAN gaming environment; it's somewhat offensive because its supposed to be. The same things oocrur in competetive physical sports as well, it seems to be the nature of any form of competition."

I've gotta disagree with this statement. For example... I'm an admin on our clan's CS server. For various reasons we have a swearing filter. You wouldn't believe the amount of whining people do about this! People whine that we're taking away their civil rights or something because when they come to play on OUR server there's a certain code of civility we want followed. We don't let rascist remarks fly; while some amount of smack talk is allowed, a lot of people just go too far.

It's amazing the changes this makes. Regulars that come to our server start being a lot more civil than any other servers I've been to. The people who feel a NEED to talk really nasty smack go elsewhere, and people are much more gracious in defeat and victory than they are elsewhere. Even though I know that many of our regulars are very young, it feels like a much more 'grown-up' place -- and I like that.

I would argue that it also makes it more palatable to women. My wife will play CS on our server, but nowhere else, for example. Saying "if you can't take the smack get out of the kitchen" is completely off the mark -- it's not that women CAN'T take the smack, it's that they don't WANT to. And of course here I'm talking from what I've seen in my experiences. There are certainly women that get into it as much as men do, but by and large the women I know who game or would like to are very turned off by the EXTREMELY juvenile attitude most gamers have. Heck, I'm male and I'm very turned off by that attitude. One of the reasons I don't go to many LAN parties anymore -- the constant idiocy is wearing, even though the gaming is fun as hell.

-Polare
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:21 am

That'd be fun.(I think) I’ve played Q2 on a friends network a couple times a few years ago (has 3 computers networked, they all suck though, no 3D vid), and starcraft once over the phone line. :cry: (me goes home to sulk, as now I feel gamingingly inferior)

A bell suddenly rings and realizes what team deathmatch in Q3 is all about!
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:49 am

In response to Polare:

I agree with you. There ARE limits on the amount and nature of smack talk. You don't need to go overboard with base profanity to talk smack. Some of the best taunts are the ones that are devoid of profanity.

Especially online, the level of vulgarity annoys me, younger boys seem to be the worst offenders. Some folks do seem to NEED to talk with a potty-mouth. In our gaming group, we are all over 30, most of us are ex-military. We are somewhat desensitized to a certain amount of profanity, but in general it doesn't get very vulgar.

Also, I find that typed-in taunts are more liable to be offensive because they lack tone utterly. When someone is taling to you, you can hear whether or not they are saying it in a good-natured fashion. For me that is a key caveat, <B>smack-talk should be good natured. Coarse perhaps, but good-natured.</B> When it ceases to be 'friendly' then it crosses over the line into base-insult or rudeness. This is best done verbally, not texted.

People that find a certain group's behavior is not their cup of tea SHOULD find a diferent group to play with. I think you are absolutely within your rights to set the tone on your server.

I would temper this with the thought that, IMHO if you can't countenance smack-talk or taunting that is not vulgar or profane, then you are probably over-sensitive. ( and should switch from beer to mineral water ) :wink:

n.b.: the :wink: indicates a good-natured taunt
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:35 pm

On 2002-03-14 10:49, Princess Die wrote:
( and should switch from beer to mineral water ) :wink:


Ha. I don't drink beer anyways :wink:

-Polare
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:49 pm

Holy political correctness, Batman!

I for one get sooooo tired of certain groups of people thinking another certain group of people should change their ways to accomodate the wishes of first group of people.

This is so **** up. If a woman gamer doesn't like the behavior of some male gamers, then DON'T PLAY WITH THEM. Don't expect gamers to change just to suit you. I for one enjoy my "suck on that one motherf*cker" and "die motherbitch" comments. After all, what else is there to say after you've digitally gibbed someone? :grin:

BTW I'm a happily married man.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vrock on 2002-03-14 14:48 ]</font>
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:57 pm

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lao Tze on 2002-03-14 11:58 ]</font>
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:17 pm

You got that right Vrock.....
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:43 pm

Why be nasty against someone you just defeated?

"Gotcha", "You loose" or "You´re gone" and similar have always been goodenough for me.

If someone starts trying to be insulting, that only makes me disrespect him/her, and means that i will choose to target them ahead of others, it also means i expect them to behave dishonorably(which most normally do whenever they get a chance) and therefore skip any kind of "nice" treatment.
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:56 pm

Anyone who can not take the Heat do not walk into the Fire "Simple, Easy, DONE"
"StarCraft 2 will release when it's ready." - Blizzard
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Postposted on Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:31 pm

On 2002-03-14 11:49, Vrock wrote:
I for one get sooooo tired of certain groups of people thinking another certain group of people should change their ways to accomodate the wishes of first group of people.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vrock on 2002-03-14 14:48 ]</font>


kinda confusing but i agree :smile:
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