Got me a project car :D

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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Fri May 24, 2013 9:43 pm

AMD Damo wrote:I'm on probationary license, its illegal for me to drive any car with gasoline forced induction, V8s, including diesel 8 cylinder (like my GMC Sierra) or even any performance modifications like my Falcon, hence why I went with something low key as to not attract police attention.

This particular bit of Aussie (or is it just Victoria?) vehicular castration is simply foreign to us Yanks. Got your license? Have at the 911 Turbo. It also explains a lot of the carping you've got from the crowd.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:16 am

Captain Ned wrote:
AMD Damo wrote:I'm on probationary license, its illegal for me to drive any car with gasoline forced induction, V8s, including diesel 8 cylinder (like my GMC Sierra) or even any performance modifications like my Falcon, hence why I went with something low key as to not attract police attention.

This particular bit of Aussie (or is it just Victoria?) vehicular castration is simply foreign to us Yanks. Got your license? Have at the 911 Turbo. It also explains a lot of the carping you've got from the crowd.


Victoria, New South Whales, South Australia and Queensland all have it in, some states are slightly different, for example Queensland has a section in there banning anything over 200KW (SV6 Holden Commodore breaches this, but its legal in Victoria), ACT and Western Australia have no vehicle restrictions, unsure about Northern Territory and Tasmania.

Once you turn 16 you sit this exam to get a learners permit, which allows you to drive with a fully licensed driver in the passenger seat with you, and you have to stick this yellow L on your front/rear wind screens (some states also have speed restrictions too, NSW - L - 80km/h, P1 - 90km/h, P2 - 100km/h) and do a log book of every time you drive, with distance, weather, licensed driver license number, day or night, dirt road, sealed road etc. But they have no vehicle restrictions, so this 16 year old kid can drive anything.

You need to have 120 hours of driving logged (at least 10 hours at night) across all conditions before you can sit for your license test when you turn 18.

When you turn 18, you sit your driving test, if you pass you go to Probationary License stage 1:

- No hands free phone usage
- No more than 1 passenger between 16-22 years old.
- No towing anything
- Vehicle restrictions

You need a Red P plate on your windscreens.

After a year on P1 you go to P2:

- Vehicle restrictions

With a green/white P plate.

You can see one of my P plates on my Focus in this picture:

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Pretty much what happens is it identifies you to other drives, and you get harassed by police looking for something to screw you over on, if you've got an obviously modified car, police will pull you over for a "random breath test", then go over your car to find something to fine you on, or give you a defect notice, a nice big yellow sticker on the windscreen saying "DEFECTIVE VEHICLE" which gives you a few days before your car becomes unregistered, and it has to get a road worthy certificate again so over to the mechanics to get it cleared, then back to VicRoads to get it cleared with the certificate.

That defect notice can be for what ever reason, my workmate has been done 14 times in his modified Commodore, too low, or too big wheels, and mostly stupid **** like empty windscreen washer bottle or obstruction of view for his little deodorant tree thing you hang off the rear view mirror.

If one P plate falls off, you'll get pulled over by police and fined around $200 and get 2 points towards losing your license.

P plater has 5 points, so if you get caught for example, no P plates and modified vehicle:

$1100 and 3 points for the modified vehicle
$200 and 2 points for the P plates

Loss of license for 6 months, plus another 6 month extension on your P plates when you get your license back.

We've also got hoon laws, get caught breaking traction, 45km/h over the limit, driving unlicensed etc, 1st offence is you lose your car for 30 days, second offence is 3 months, third offence is your car gets crushed.

These offences last 10 years before they clear, so if you get done twice in your own car, then drive your parents car, and get done again, their car will be crushed.

Sometimes they get really nasty and will show up to charity car shows and defect everyones cars, or even worse bring the EPA with them and they'll request the car to be emissions tested, whichs costs $2200 every test, and if you fail you have to do it again and again until you get it right (car is now useless).

P plates are the equivalent of the star of david.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 5:08 am

That's really interesting Damo - in the UK it works like this:

On a "standard" driving licence (called a Category B), you can drive any vehicle up to 3500kg GVW, with a trailer up to 750kg as long as the mass of the train does not exceed 3500kg, with no more than 8 passengers. Many other categories exist!

at 17 you can apply for your provisional licence. (Green). You can then drive any Category B vehicle as long as you are supervised by a full licence holder who has held their licence for 3 or more years. You have to apply L-plates to the vehicle when you are driving on a provisional licence.

Once you pass your test you get your full licence (Pink), which allows you to drive unsupervised. Win!

We have a "totting-up" points system whereby if you gain 12 points you lose your licence. Speeding is generally 3 points, driving without insurance generally 6, etc. Fines also apply. In your first 2 years of holding a full licence, the threshold is 6 points.

There are no laws regarding power, type of car, modification etc for new drivers, as long as the vehicle remains road-legal. However, there is a de-facto ban on young drivers in very powerful cars as it is next to impossible to find an insurer willing to take the risk. Even in a small family hatchback, many young drivers in the UK pay £3000 for a year's insurance ($4500 ish in AUD or USD)... (I'm nearly 30 so I pay about £500).

Lots of young drivers in the UK kill themselves or their passengers through reckless driving and I think it's not too long before rules like Damo describes are brought in...
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 9:40 am

Remind me to move to Perth, then.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Tue May 28, 2013 12:25 pm

JohnC wrote:Why bother trying to annoy them? Just ignore such people. I never try to play racing games with anyone on public roads - not in my past cars, not in my newer ones. Unless, of course, you went to a track with it...

In general, I don't, and especially not stupid behavior like "car tag" or brake-checking as that puts everyone else on the road in danger. But now and then, when I'm at the front of the light, the visibility is good, and a coffee can muffler is roaring in the next lane with a Grenade Gloves sticker in the window...
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Tue May 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Egads! A good public transit system is pretty much mandatory with those licensing rules. Then again, I would probably want a Hummer with the 'roo-catcher accessory for driving down under. :lol:
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:53 am

Photos of my new project:

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That was when I first laid eyes on her, she come into my workshop for some aircon work, and I decided then and there it would be mine :D

At home:

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Emergency lights and sirens are still functional, I need to remove them.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:34 am

What's the end goal? Camper, or mobile workshop?
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:18 pm

JohnC wrote: :D Why bother trying to annoy them? Just ignore such people. I never try to play racing games with anyone on public roads - not in my past cars, not in my newer ones. Unless, of course, you went to a track with it...


I built my 69 Cutlass to humiliate 5 liter Fords. When the Fords came out everyone and his dog jumped on this fairly potent package as it was cheap. After a few years they were everywhere.

The Cutlass, my project car at the time, got a 502 crate motor and about 6 grand into the suspension. I kept the fairly low rear end as it was not really for the drag strip although it did run 105 12.8 secs the one time I took it to the track. What it was for it did very well. At about 70 mph I could drop the turbo 400 into second and dump pretty near all of the 560 ft/lbs into the road. Sometimes there was wheelspin. ;) Crushed, the 5 liter Ford would usually give up right away. She would go 160 but it was terrifying at that speed. She looked rough, never spent money on the finish, unless you noticed the large Gatorbacks on 16" wheels and the all new spring stance, you would think she was just old. That was to make the pretty 5 liter Fords hurt a bit more.

Now I'm older and wiser but my Lincoln still sees WOT quite often. It's hard to get right but my 93 Mark VIII has the hottest chip they put in the Mark VIIIs from the factory and will shift the DOHC 4.6 at 6000 if pushed. Now sometimes I can get that to happen right beside my victim of the moment. FTW.

Playing in traffic. I did put in 30 odd years driving semi trailer in the city so .....
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:56 pm

To be honest, I like the idea of graduated licensing (although I'm in favor of a more weight-based graduated licensing system, to reduce damage to the other guy, than power-based, but no reason power can't be a factor in there either).

If you know what you're doing, you can have fun with 52 hp in a 2350 pound car (and, actually, I think even that's massive overkill as far as weight for an entry class, although modern freeway speeds would need at least that much power in a 1750 pound or less car (the base tier in the system I want to see)). I did.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:36 am

ludi wrote:What's the end goal? Camper, or mobile workshop?


Camper at the moment, but damn mobile workshop sounds freakin' awesome.

I'll give you guys a bit of back story to the vehicle:

It started out life as an import by the Victorian Government, as they were never imported, complianced and sold here in Australia, except the Suburban in the mid 90s by Holden which lived a very short life.

The Victorian Government for what ever reason had decided to use these as their rural ambulances.

They were shipped in from the USA, converted to RHD, complianced to meet Australian Design Rules and sent to Jakab in Tamworth NSW to have the rear body made up for them and installed, then they went to Mader International in Victoria to be fitted out with all the electrics to turn it into an ambulance.

This one which is a 2001 model (complianced as 2001 here in Australia, probably your 1998 model) is one of the last ones imported, they were replaced with the locally delivered F350 by Ford Australia (built for us by Ford Brazil) later in 2001.

They ended up being replaced by the F350 because Ford Australia started selling the super duty series here in Australia. Which the RHD models being built in Brazil sent over to us rather than converting the American ones to RHD and bothering with all the crap to meet ADRs, so we ran with the 1999 F250/350 Ford Brazil was building from 2001 all the way up to 2006 until Ford Brazil stopped making them.

In 2006, Ford Australia decided not to continue with the F series trucks, so all rural ambulances became Mercedes Sprinters like the metro ambulance variants. Paramedics complain about the lack of power and torque in those German pieces of **** and they have just as many reliability problems as the American trucks.

Ambulance Victoria wasn't happy with the issues they were facing with the GMC Sierra, they were killing engines constantly, but I put this down to the barbarians who were driving the vehicles and GM's dodgy turbo they decided to use.

Replacement parts were hard to get a hold of because there was no local supply for them, as the trucks are imports, so there was no local dealership support, a few retailers like Bursons were importing parts though.

Each Ambulance cost about $170,000 when it was finished.

This particular ambulance had served its time in the Regional Ambulance Victoria fleet, then was decommissioned and sold onto First Intervention, a paramedic training company, so it was refitted out and changed colour scheme with all new stickers, and they had it for 6 or so years, where it was only used by students for practise, maybe 5 times a year, so its been sitting inside a garage for half of its life.

My story:

I got her for a good price, $14,000 which included road worthy certificate and registration to October, they originally wanted $19,000, but they agreed to $14,000 and they would be paying for any work it needed to get the certificate.

Which worked out fantastic for me, because the mechanic made them replace the Windscreen, both front seat belts, shocks, tie rod ends and some bushes, which ended up costing them $2500 LOL.

My workmate ended up driving it home for me, which was a 50km journey, which it drove rather nicely.

Since then I've only done some minor work to it, here is a photo of it sitting in my driveway:

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I removed the two front red strobes and today I took out the siren:

The siren was behind the two blanking plates on the front two holes on the bumper:

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It was only held in by 3 self drilling screws:

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Next to come I'm going to stick some spot lights on the front of it and wire them up.

So far that is the story of my next project car.

On the Falcon, we've developed a slow coolant leak somewhere, so I have to check it out soon.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:19 am

AMD Damo wrote:mobile workshop sounds freakin' awesome.

Don't know about Oz, but here in the US if you can spin wrenches on diesels, there's good money to be made by offering mobile service. Long-haul truckers in particular experience side-of-road failures and need to get their machine back up and running ASAP, and the cost of towing one of those things to the next town is through the roof. So they'll call and pay the first guy that can show up with a van or trailer full of tools and make it go again.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:28 am

ludi wrote:
AMD Damo wrote:mobile workshop sounds freakin' awesome.

Don't know about Oz, but here in the US if you can spin wrenches on diesels, there's good money to be made by offering mobile service. Long-haul truckers in particular experience side-of-road failures and need to get their machine back up and running ASAP, and the cost of towing one of those things to the next town is through the roof. So they'll call and pay the first guy that can show up with a van or trailer full of tools and make it go again.


That would be pretty damn sweet and they do have that here in Australia, but unfortunately I'm not a qualified diesel mechanic, you have to be qualified tradesmen to do that stuff here.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:01 pm

Falcon is off the road at the moment, the heater core is busted and its slowly leaking coolant, which is a pain in the ass job because the dash has to come out.

So I'm thinking while the dash is out, maybe manual conversion, as the dash has to be out for that too.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:35 pm

You could just do the simple hack of looping the heater core out to the heater core in.

I did that on a buddy's car that busted the heater core so bad he was driving around with 5 gallon jugs of water to fill it up every 20 miles. Just loop the output from the block right back to the return with a short section of heater hose. :lol:

No heat, but it works.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:28 am

Yeah, I can if I want to but I'm thinking I'll just leave it off the road for now, the dash has to come out to replace the heater core and while I'm there I might as well as convert to manual as you have to change the pedal box without the dash in there :)
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:40 am

AMD Damo wrote: Ford Australia is the canary in the underground mine, Toyota and Holden will eventually follow.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:11 am

Captain Ned wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:P.S.: A bit of Googling turned up the specifications of the stock 4.0L in-line 6:
FalconFacts wrote: 4.0L 6 cyl (Fairmont Ghia)
Bore and stroke: 93 x 99 mm
Power: 162kW at 4900rpm
Torque: 361Nm at 3000rpm
Overhead camshaft, 2 valves per cylinder
Fuel system: EEC V fuel injection
Compression ratio: 9.3:1

In shade-tree speak, 217hp and 266 ft/lb stock. Not bad for a 246ci I6.


[troll]"Not bad" by what standard?? Wake me up when this 4L I6 makes >100hp/liter.[/troll]

I understand its not exactly "modern day tech", but it doesn't impress me when you put it next to something like naturally aspirated Honda K and F series engines. Though, most Honda B's are from the day in age where this 4L was produced, also made more power per liter. (With the B17, and some B18's under the 100hp/liter figure)

(Ramblings from a superior foreign automotive technology fan.) I'll show myself out now.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:23 pm

That's a weak troll. Even 17 years later, very few engines produce more than 100 hp/liter. My normally-aspirated J35Y produces 80.1 hp/L on regular unleaded gasoline.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:50 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:That's a weak troll. Even 17 years later, very few engines produce more than 100 hp/liter. My normally-aspirated J35Y produces 80.1 hp/L on regular unleaded gasoline.

Seems like he's all about the Hondas and the fart cans. There's a food staple whose name has been applied to this crew.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:11 pm

A year after AMD Damo's 53.8 hp/L Falcon was built, my J30A produced 66.7 hp/L, but it used twice as many valves with variable valve timing and lift electronic control to do it.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:29 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:That's a weak troll. Even 17 years later, very few engines produce more than 100 hp/liter. My normally-aspirated J35Y produces 80.1 hp/L on regular unleaded gasoline.


BMW S65B40 - 414BHP - 4.0L (E90/92/93 BMW M3)
BMW S65B44 - 444BHP - 4.4L (E92 M3 GTS)
BMW S85B50 - 507BHP - 5.0L (M5/M6)
Toyota 2ZZ-GE - 190BHP - 1.8L (Exige/Elise/Various Celica & Corolla)
Toyota 1LR-GUE - 552BHP - 4.8L (Lexus LFA)
2007-2008 Audi 4.2 V8 32v FSI - 420BHP - 4.2L (Audi RS4)
2006+ Audi 5.0 V10 40v FSI - 512BHP - 5.0L (Lambo Gallardo)
Audi 5.0 V10 40v FSI - 523BHP - 5.0L (Lambo Gallardo)
Audi 5.2 V10 40v FSI - 552BHP - 5.2L (Lambo LP560-4)
Mercedes M159 - 622BHP - 6.2L
2009+ Ferrari 4.5L V8 - 562BHP - 4.5L
2008+ Ferrari 4.3L V8 - 454BHP - 4.3L
2004-2009 Ferrari 4.3L V8 - 483BHP - 4.3L
1994-1999 Ferrari 3.5L V8 5 valve - 375BHP - 3.5L
2005-present Ferrari 6.3L 75-degree V12 - 661BHP and up - 6.262L
Tipo F140C - 612BHP - 6.0L
Porsche 911 flat-6 engines - up to 530BHP - (in various 3.6L and 3.8L configurations)

9 Honda B series variants, to include:
B16A SIR-II - 168BHP - 1.6L
B16B - 185BHP - 1.6L
B16A2 - 160BHP - 1.6L
B16A3 - 160BHP - 1.6L
B16A5 - 174BHP - 1.6L
B18C - 197BHP (for Integra Type R platform) 178BHP (for Integra SiR/SiR II/SiR-G platforms) - 1.8L
B18C5 - 197BHP - 1.8L
B18C6 - 189BHP - 1.8L
B18C7 - 187BHP - 1.8L

3 Honda F series variants, to include:
F20B - 200BHP - 2.0L
F20C - 240BHP - 2.0L (Honda S2000)
F22C1 - 239BHP - 2.2L (Honda S2000)

4 Honda K series variants, to include:
K20A - 222/220/212BHP - 2.0L
K20A2 - 200BHP - 2.0L
K20Z1 - 210BHP - 2.0L
K20Z4 - 201BHP - 2.0L

"Few" ?

... and those are just the naturally aspirated engines that *I* am aware of. Lord, that list could easily double if counting all manufacturers who produce engines with outputs in that range, along with forced induction platforms.

But nothing impresses this crowd. :|

@CaptainNed - I'll assume you're partial to American automotives. So, how many American platforms prove to be reliabile past their warranties, have non-lethargic power-to-weight ratios, and can actually manage a corner without lumbering about like a fat man? Not too many.
I'd take a damned 1.6L or 1.8L Miata ANY day over something us American's label with the words "sport" and "car".
When America stops making "sports cars"/"sport sedans" with solid rear axles, lazy power curves, leaf springs (Corvette), weights of a small minivan, atrocious designing (subjective), all while achieving at least average gas mileage (~25MPG), I might actually consider giving them money for their product.

Disclaimer: I understand not everyone wants a vehicle that can accomplish a fast lap at your local road course/autocross to drive daily. I get it. However, claiming a vehicle is faster in all but a straight line (:yawn:) is exactly what I'd expect from your typical "Honda sucks" American.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:47 pm

Even requiring premium fuel, naturally aspirated 2014 BMWs produce less than 100 hp/L. Some of their turbo models have lower specific output, too.
Code: Select all
             hp/L   hp/ci  cid     L      hp
2014 BMW
128i:        78     1.28   180    2.9    230
320i:        90     1.50   122T   2.0T   180
320d:        90     1.50   122TD  2.0TD  180


No 2014 Toyota produces 100 hp/L.
Code: Select all
             hp/L   hp/ci  cid     L      hp
2014 Toyota
Yaris        71     1.16    91    1.5    106
Corolla      73     1.20   110    1.8    132
Matrix S     66     1.08   146    2.4    158
Tacoma 4     59     0.97   164    2.7    159
Camry        71     1.17   152    2.5    178
RAV4         71     1.17   152    2.5    178
Venza        67     1.10   164    2.7    181
Highlander   68     1.12   164    2.7    185
Tacoma 6     59     0.97   244    4.0    236
FJ           65     1.07   244    4.0    260
Sienna       76     1.24   214    3.5    266
Avalon       76     1.25   214    3.5    268
Highlander   76     1.26   214    3.5    270
4Runner      67     1.11   244    4.0    270
Tundra       67     1.11   280    4.6    310
Land Cruiser 67     1.10   347    5.7    381
Sequioa      67     1.10   347    5.7    381
     
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:04 pm

Europe is where all the 100+BHP/L lives.

Most new cars have a sports option that delivers turbo/supercharging or both.

The VW/Audi group (VW/Skoda/Seat/Audi/Porche/Bentley - among others) use both a 2.0L and a 1.4L block in various guises putting out 220PS and 180PS respectively
Fiat group (Fiat, Alfa, Ferrari - among others) also offer 1.2L and 1.4L engines delivering 140 and 170BHP respectively.

There are a huge number of those engines scattered across marques and models, but they all boast 55+MPG and 0-60 times of between 6 and 9 seconds so for such economical little blocks they're still fun to drive.

Naturally-aspirated with more than 100BHP/L only two companies come to mind - PSA (Citroen/Renault/Peugeout) and Honda. I'd include Mazda too, if they weren't cheating with a Wankel Engine; CC is not comparible with traditional cylinder designs in those things, and they drink oil along with their atrocious MPG.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:57 pm

Ford Ecoboost motors. The 3.5 liter V6 makes 365 horse and 420 ft/lb. I want one for my Lincoln Mark VIII. Lots of power, lots of torque, 30 mpg and it will sit way back in my engine bay.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:21 pm

To me the measure is not HP/litre, but torque/litre. HP is derived from torque at X RPM which is why Honda's high-RPM screamers can post 100hp/iltre.

I want grunt and I want it down low. Subie does not yet offer their diesel in the US but as soon as they do, I'm likely there. I'd be shocked if Cobb didn't quickly follow with one of their widgets.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:05 pm

Captain Ned wrote:To me the measure is not HP/litre, but torque/litre. HP is derived from torque at X RPM which is why Honda's high-RPM screamers can post 100hp/iltre.

I want grunt and I want it down low. Subie does not yet offer their diesel in the US but as soon as they do, I'm likely there. I'd be shocked if Cobb didn't quickly follow with one of their widgets.

Ah you need a truck with a Cummings motor. My buds Dodge makes ungodly torque.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:06 pm

PenGun wrote:Ah you need a truck with a Cummings motor. My buds Dodge makes ungodly torque.

OK, how do I squeeze that into a Subaru Legacy sedan?
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:35 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
PenGun wrote:Ah you need a truck with a Cummings motor. My buds Dodge makes ungodly torque.

OK, how do I squeeze that into a Subaru Legacy sedan?

Ummm it would be a funny car ... ;) Seriously that thing accelerates hard and uses very little RPM. I had a 502 in a Cutlass made 560 ft/lbs at 2800 RPM, his truck feels stronger.
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Re: Got me a project car :D

Postposted on Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Captain Ned wrote: I want grunt and I want it down low.
Then shift into a lower gear! Your transmission is a torque-multiplying machine. That's what it's for.

The motors that produce by far the highest torque at low rpm are electric. Maybe you really want a hybrid -- Honda's latest one doesn't shift gears at all.
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