Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

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Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon May 21, 2012 11:09 am

Dear Microsoft,

About Windows 8...

My toaster and my oven are similar devices used for different things. I don't mind that they work differently.
My motorcycle and my car are similar devices used for different things. I don't mind that they work differently.
My tablet and my desktop are similar devices used for different things. I don't mind that they work differently.

Thank you very much for your attention.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon May 21, 2012 11:28 am

Actually this is Tech Report, I think you found the wrong site!
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:08 am

Actually, I have the opposite view. I leave my keys, cell phone, walllet, etc in the same place so I know where to find them.

Why does Microsoft insist on changing the location of, well, everything with each new version of their software?

I understand, working with various flavors of UNIX and Linux, that commands to do the same thing have different names or flags. (I'm talking about low level, administrative stuff like discovering devices, shutdown, etc, not normal user commands.) But you own Windows. Why move everything around? Automobile manufacturers don't move the brake or turn signals to better, more ergonomic locations every model year.

Not content with ruining one platform, this disease has spread to the Gnome 3 desktop.

Stop hiding my keys!
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:19 am

I think you lost them when you said desktop.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:46 am

moved to back porch
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:56 am

While we are on a Win8 topic, I would also like to thank Microsoft for finally pushing me over to the Linux side.

I now know that Linux is a fully workable solution now, I can get most software here for free and legally, the GUI is clean. And after initial learning, I can now set up my own servers that don't cost a thing. And on a server/desktop side, I'm saving a lot of money too. :)

Also, the system seems to be a lot more secure, less plagued with malwares of all sorts. And user setting transfer, or all application updates is a lot easier.

Even Wine works quite well. I've been playing few titles on Wine without a hitch.

I would have never done a switch if not for Win8 :)

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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am

Windows 8 looks truly awful. I'll do my best to avoid it as long as possible. I'm reasonably happy with Windows 7.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:26 pm

Who knows, Win 8 may be looked back upon as the OS that made linux go mainstream. If linux gets gaming, that's all that is really holding it back from more people trying it out. Now with steam going to linux and gabe being a linux booster, who knows what will happen.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:18 pm

Starfalcon wrote:Who knows, Win 8 may be looked back upon as the OS that made linux go mainstream.
Yeah no. If Windows ME didn't do it then Win 8 damn sure isn't going to do it.

You Linux nerds just don't get it. Windows 8 is not for you. It's for the masses. The masses will eat it up. With a spoon. The masses don't know Linux exists. They don't care. Most computer nerds don't even care. If you doubled Linux's user base, it'd still only have 3% of the market. Put another way, there are almost as many people out there using pre-Windows XP versions of Windows as there are Linux users. Can you say ouch?

That's not mainstream. Nerds thinking they're going to make an impact on the OS market amuses me. Computers and computer software stopped being a nerd-only realm a long, long time ago. They're appliances now, and it's only going to get worse. You guys are just so out of touch with both mainstream computer users and business in general, I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you. If Win 8 does drive game developers away it will drive them toward consoles, not LInux. Marketshare's a bitch like that.
Last edited by Vrock on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:22 pm

It's hard to believe Linux will somehow make some great gains in market share when you've been hearing it for 15 years (and others probably longer). Gaming is far from being the only thing holding it back. Lots of people try it out, most just go back to Windows.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:23 pm

If LInux even doubles its marketshare due to Windows 8, I'll post a video of myself eating cat poop.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:33 pm

Vrock wrote:If LInux even doubles its marketshare due to Windows 8, I'll post a video of myself eating cat poop.

Fry it up with some Thai chili garlic sauce. It'll help.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:51 pm

Vrock wrote:If LInux even doubles its marketshare due to Windows 8, I'll post a video of myself eating cat poop.

Yeah, I seriously doubt this happens, Most likely people just stay with 7.

However, I do think Linux is ready for the masses at this point (it wasn't when ME came out).
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:52 pm

Vrock wrote:If LInux even doubles its marketshare due to Windows 8, I'll post a video of myself eating cat poop.

A loophole appears.

An expensive loophole, but given the alternative...
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:48 pm

ludi wrote:An expensive loophole, but given the alternative...

By the time they're so dry that the cats are playing turd hockey with them they should be easy to choke down with a big glass of water.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:40 pm

I don't understand all of the nerdrage with Windows 8.

Windows 8 is just a tweaked version of Windows 7 that is build around the app store.

UI isn't really that different at all. The start menu didn't disappeared, it became a "start screen". Microsoft actually improved "UI compatibility" since it is more touch-screen friendly and portable devices are what is selling these days. Windows 8 works just fine with a keyboard/mouse. At worse, you might have to re-learn where to go with a few things. It is no different what happened with XP and Vista transition.
Last edited by Krogoth on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:48 pm

Vrock wrote:Nerds thinking they're going to make an impact on the OS market amuses me.


Actually, this time, you are taking a risk...

Firefox, it was basically advertised by nerds, and installed on all family computers by nerds.
Android, most of the pads and phones are Linux, if I'm not mistaken.
Linux, is actually a lot more stable and easier to use and install than Windows 8.
Valve, is giving it a big push.
Google, will probably like if Linux succeeds.
Windows, is making sure users are really confused.

I'm not expecting wonders, but there is a lot more going than it was 5 years ago. At least we are at the point where I'm starting to recommend Linux for many use cases and people. And I'm starting to install it if someone asks me to repair their PC. Heck, I even managed to walk a girl, who knows little about computers, through installation process of Ubuntu over the phone, and get it to connect to MAC locked Internet. I wouldn't even dare to do the same with Windows.

And I'm happy I did the switch to Mint, not even single day so far when I wanted to go back to Windows 7 or, not to mention, 8.

Moreover I'm not even a Linux fanboy, I was rather against it most of the time. It's just that there have been a lot of the right movements, which have changed the overall picture.

Linux in no longer that crazy, unusable nerd thing that needed regular terminal sessions to get it working and keep it running. All it needs is for people to slowly realize it's so.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:23 pm

Madman wrote: All it needs is for people to slowly realize it's so.

They don't care to make the effort to realize, dude. And even if they did, they'd just shrug and keep what they already have: Windows. That's what you don't get. People don't care about Linux. Windows costs them nothing (essentially, it comes with the computer they bought), it runs all their stuff, they know how to use it, they use it at work and home, etc. For the average person Windows is just fine so there's no reason for them to look at anything else. The average user never says "gee, I wonder what other OS's are out there, and what benefits they offer over what I have now?" The few that do buy Macs. That isn't going to change with Windows 8.

Nerds are not the market. Therefore, predicting that the market is going to do what nerds to is just dumb.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:42 pm

Madman wrote:Google, will probably like if Linux succeeds.

Google doesn't give a spit about desktop Linux. Google never ported Picassa or SketchUp or who knows what else to Linux. Google genuinely sucks when it comes to being an application developer. They only care about getting people to use Google's services, but just don't give a damn what OS people use to access said services. Only reason Google got into Android and Chrome OS was to get people more and more plugged into the online services.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:02 pm

Even if Linux was able to gain an enormous amount of market share, I can't imagine they would be able to maintain it on the desktop. Windows is so huge, it they saw any real threat to themselves from a strictly software point of view (not that has the addition of hardware it sells unlike Microsoft until the Surface) I would have to imagine they could tackle it easily. Heck, free market when it comes to Linux...they could easily just take all the things that lost market share grew to love about Linux and add it into their own product. However, Linux's influence may be welcomed at this point.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:04 pm

StuG wrote:Even if Linux was able to gain an enormous amount of market share, I can't imagine they would be able to maintain it on the desktop. Windows is so huge, it they saw any real threat to themselves from a strictly software point of view (not that has the addition of hardware it sells unlike Microsoft until the Surface) I would have to imagine they could tackle it easily. Heck, free market when it comes to Linux...they could easily just take all the things that lost market share grew to love about Linux and add it into their own product. However, Linux's influence may be welcomed at this point.

Actually, I think it's the other way around. As soon as some critical mass is reached, the software availability and hardware compatibility will improve tremendously, and by that time, only patent wars will be able to take the Linux down.

See what happened with IE. Firefox and Chrome completely changed the game. You now need to look really hard to find a web developer who targets IE first. And the current IE market-share is more because of the integration in Windows rather than a deliberate choice.

Compare Europe (Windows not bundled with IE, and browser choice screen) with the US - http://gs.statcounter.com/

The difference is night and day.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:50 pm

Vrock wrote:
Starfalcon wrote:Who knows, Win 8 may be looked back upon as the OS that made linux go mainstream.

Yeah no. If Windows ME didn't do it then Win 8 damn sure isn't going to do it.

The situation is different now, so this isn't really a valid comparison. Linux is a lot closer to being viable as a general purpose desktop than it was 12 years ago, and for a fair number of people it's already there. That said, I still don't see it "going mainstream" as a desktop OS.

OTOH as a mobile platform it's already there (Android).
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:43 am

just brew it! wrote:That said, I still don't see it "going mainstream" as a desktop OS.

Neither am I, it will take a very long time to get anywhere above 10%, but given all the factors, there is a chance that the trend might finally start. Which would be a great thing.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:57 am

You're more optimistic than I am. I think 10% of home users would be a major stretch; 5% might be in reach, but only if developers of games and other mainstream apps get behind it, and high-profile sites like Amazon's MP3 store don't continue to do stupid arbitrary stuff to inconvenience Linux users (just discovered that one today... you can't download complete albums any more if you're running Linux, you need to download each track individually :roll:).

10% of corporate users will happen when pigs fly. Too much invested already in supporting Microsoft platforms for them to switch.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:31 am

just brew it! wrote:You're more optimistic than I am. I think 10% of home users would be a major stretch; 5% might be in reach, but only if developers of games and other mainstream apps get behind it, and high-profile sites like Amazon's MP3 store don't continue to do stupid arbitrary stuff to inconvenience Linux users (just discovered that one today... you can't download complete albums any more if you're running Linux, you need to download each track individually :roll:).

10% of corporate users will happen when pigs fly. Too much invested already in supporting Microsoft platforms for them to switch.

I believe it will get to 10%-20% eventually, just after a very long time. And the problem is the critical mass, until it's not there, nothing can happen.

Even corporate users would be happy to switch to Linux I think. Most servers are Linux, and it would simplify licensing, infrastructure and other issues. It's just that many apps are Windows only, and users have poor training in regards to Linux, and that is a problem. But with all the diversity in consumer space - iStuff, Android stuff, Linux stuff and Surface stuff, things might start to normalize, which might be just enough.

You no longer feel excluded from the world if you run Linux, and R&D from Android and Mac is actually having it's positive influence too. Also, HTML5 based apps and stuff like that also make sure that stuff is no longer made on Windows for Windows. Every successful company wants to cover as many platforms as possible nowadays. And that means they are a lot more Linux friendly.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:02 am

it would simplify licensing, infrastructure and other issues


you're aware that in the corporate world linux isn't free? you think red hat does it out of the goodness of their heart? Linux has costs. Tons. a belief that windows is inferior is from pre-2003 days. there are plenty of windows boxes with years of uptime. Servers ARE linux. Desktop boxes? that's another mess altogether. Servers do a limited set of tasks, but desktop is a totally other creature. the desktop would be lucky to be as stable as windows. God knows i have far fewer "not responding" applications on windows than i do on linux. I know the "that's the applications, not the os" but i've had plenty of system apps not responding. NM the fact that most distro's suck. I've STILL never had mint install properly. been trying for like 4 editions now, on like 5 computers. every time there is a problem. i realize it's anecdotal, but a belief that linux is superior on the desktop simply isn't realistic.

you're right it's going more to html5, which is cross platform. I love linux, i've been running a variety of distro's for close to a decade. I like them, and i enjoy using them. But they're not comparable to windows.

Lots of you guys think i JUST OMG LOVE MS!!! it's not true. i love bill, and the work he's doing with this organization, but honestly, i just find the MS stuff WORKS better. i like the windows phone UI. i think it's arousing. I like windows as my main OS because it's compatible, and stable. Win 8 in particular, since i like metro so much (and so does valve, despite the ramblings of newell, big picture is a metro clone). As for MS server, i haven't used it enough to know if i care. I certainly think plenty of the stuff they make sucks. IE8 is such a piece of garbage every time i see it i spank my children. they understand, it's so bad they beg me to.

tldnr win 8 is fine, windows is stable. linux for business has costs.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:14 am

Vrock wrote:They're appliances now, and it's only going to get worse.


QFT.

Those appliances might be running linux behind the scenes, but people don't write software for Darwin, they write software for MacOS/iOS.

Yes, those applications "run on linux", but only with completely proprietary interfaces and APIs. And, with iOS, it's a completely closed system.

I've made this point before, but are linux nerds supposed to be happy that *nix is helping to build better cool jails?

Was that really the point?

Madman wrote:See what happened with IE. Firefox and Chrome completely changed the game. You now need to look really hard to find a web developer who targets IE first. And the current IE market-share is more because of the integration in Windows rather than a deliberate choice.


You don't seem to understand why IE won in the first place and then dominated for years: MS made it free. The concept that fully-featured browsers should be "free" didn't even exist originally.

Even now, Chrome, not Firefox, is winning. Chrome, not Chromium.

JBI wrote:but only if developers of games and other mainstream apps get behind it


The problem for people like Madman is that if Valve comes out with a console that "runs linux" it's clearly going to be in the same mode as iOS. The "app" mentality is growing...
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:41 am

sweatshopking wrote:God knows i have far fewer "not responding" applications on windows than i do on linux. I know the "that's the applications, not the os" but i've had plenty of system apps not responding.

Some of your arguments I would sort of agree with. But ^^ this one isn't one of them. Vista/Windows 7 brought into the world the issue of waiting for applications to respond. If an application wants su privileges it's a crap shoot if the damn UAC window will come up. Sometimes it will place it self behind all of the other windows you have open. Great! So you've been waiting there for 30 seconds for no apparent reason. Linux desktop has compatibility issues with regards to running applications that WIndow's users prefer, but it runs miles better in every day use than Windows 7 or Vista.

sweatshopking wrote:tldnr win 8 is fine, windows is stable. linux for business has costs.

Yes, Linux has costs. However, the argument is that the costs associated with it are lower than what happens when you have MS everywhere. The licensing issues alone can require a MS licensing specialist (yes they exist). Rarely is that required in Linux.
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:12 am

flip-mode wrote:Google genuinely sucks when it comes to being an application developer.


Can you back this up with an example ?
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Re: Dear Microsoft, about windows 8...

Postposted on Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:49 am

Jigar wrote:
flip-mode wrote:Google genuinely sucks when it comes to being an application developer.


Can you back this up with an example ?

As I said: Sketchup and Picassa. Google bought them and then did not do a damn thing to develop them, improve them, expand them, update them, bring progress to them. All Google did was plug them into Google's services. I'm not saying the apps sucked - Sketchup is wonderful but not much more wonderful that it was in 2006 - I'm saying that Google does not care about the apps, Google only cares about using the apps to get people using Google services.
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