Choosing a new rifle.

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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:53 pm

OsakaJ wrote:Can anyone recommend an inexpensive brand of rifle that has decent quality? Also, I'd like to get a scope that's good, but not too expensive.

I have the same question, but about buying a handgun. Is it okay to piggyback on this thread or should I start a new one?
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:24 pm

You want a Nagant M1895 revolver.

[no, you don't.] :wink:
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:19 pm

vargis14 wrote:The only time fishing would be anything like hunting would be if you fished with Dynamite, Bow or spear gun.

With fishing there is something called catch and release.

Last time I checked every animal I have shot with a gun could not be released back into the wild like a fish can.


Personally, I consider catch and release to be rather inhumane. Yes, you're letting the animal go; but only after dragging it out of the water via a barbed metal hook in it's flesh. If you're going to fish, then fish - catch them, clean them, and eat them. Otherwise you're just torturing an animal for entertainment.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:22 pm

StrangeDay wrote:
OsakaJ wrote:Can anyone recommend an inexpensive brand of rifle that has decent quality? Also, I'd like to get a scope that's good, but not too expensive.

I have the same question, but about buying a handgun. Is it okay to piggyback on this thread or should I start a new one?


Anything less than a 500 S&W Magnum then you may as well buy a purse to go with it... :D
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:22 pm

paulWTAMU wrote:There must be some central place to sell used guns to local markets that I just don't see. I mean, there's that gun auction site but then there's FFL fees and all that crap and I can't see it before I buy it. There's a FB group I'm part of it but it mostly sucks and has people wanting to unload total crap or really overpriced ARs.
There probably is. As to how to find it... You might have some good luck if you head over to ar15.com and look in their regional forums. Run a few searches, but if you come up empty, post a question asking where the good places to find local classifieds is.

Otherwise, I suggest hitting the local gun shows and look for the guy with a slung rifle with a stick in the barrel and sign advertising something interesting.

StrangeDay wrote:I have the same question, but about buying a handgun. Is it okay to piggyback on this thread or should I start a new one?
Sure, but the same questions relate to you as they do to the OP. Namely: What do you want it for? (target, protection, hunting, plinking, collectible, etc.)? and What is your budget?

cphite wrote:Anything less than a 500 S&W Magnum then you may as well buy a purse to go with it... :D
See, this is why we can't have nice things.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:02 pm

bthylafh wrote:You want a Nagant M1895 revolver.

[no, you don't.] :wink:


They're fun, if not a bit ridiculous.
http://armedbutnotdangerous.blogspot.co ... agant.html
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:06 pm

Darkmage wrote:
cphite wrote:Anything less than a 500 S&W Magnum then you may as well buy a purse to go with it... :D
See, this is why we can't have nice things.
500 S&W? Pfft. Real men shoot the 900 Wristf*cker.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:13 pm

Darkmage wrote:
StrangeDay wrote:I have the same question, but about buying a handgun. Is it okay to piggyback on this thread or should I start a new one?
Sure, but the same questions relate to you as they do to the OP. Namely: What do you want it for? (target, protection, hunting, plinking, collectible, etc.)? and What is your budget?

I want it for protection & target shooting.
I'd love for it to cost less than $500. More than that & I might as well save up for a decent rifle, since I'm looking at moving to places where hunting becomes a reasonable option.
I'm eventually looking at the big three: rifle, handgun, & shotgun.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:24 pm

The 500 and most of hte other super-powered handgun cartridges just don't do it for me. I like my wrist and forearms to work. A 357 with hot loads is about my limit.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:13 am

30-06 would be a perfect rifle for deer or other game of that size. In AK 30-06 is a very popular round for Moose and some even use it for bear. I personally use a Tikka T3 300WM. If your looking to settle yourself on a particular brand of rifle, I'd highly recommend looking at the Tikka T3 lineup. They are very accurate rifles, the synthetic stock is very light and makes it perfect for carrying while hunting (I've been doing it over the last 2 weeks for moose season) and the trigger pull is excellent. The greatest thing about the rifle though, is the action. It is the smoothest action I have ever had the pleasure of using. Anytime I hand it off to another shooter to feel, their eyes light up in surprise.

Go to your gun store of choice and feel one, I think you'll like what you see/feel.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:56 am

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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:53 am

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/cva-sta ... va&Ntk=All

I know they used to use Bergara barrels.. I not sure if they still do..

I have a .308 with a 3-9x50 Redfield.. this is a great cheap and fun setup..

Buy a cheap scope and this will work great for a cheap deer harvesting solution.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:08 am

It seems like a lot of people just go around to all of the places that sell lots of guns. Here in North Texas there's a place on the way to Greenville which has tons of older military guns like Garands and what not. I bought my Garand, Sig SG 510 and AK all from this guy.

They also sell a fair amount of surplus ammo. They don't charge anything for my FFL transfers either - kinda nice, if only it wasn't in BFE.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:25 pm

StrangeDay wrote:
OsakaJ wrote:Can anyone recommend an inexpensive brand of rifle that has decent quality? Also, I'd like to get a scope that's good, but not too expensive.

I have the same question, but about buying a handgun. Is it okay to piggyback on this thread or should I start a new one?


A few months ago I decided to get something that would be easy to carry (small enough), but still effective if I truly needed it. "Research" on the net led to lots of opinions, but very little hard, tested facts. One link led to a guy in Georgia, I don't remember his name, but he'd done years of forensic work; he reported that of the years of gunshot wounds he'd seen in the morgue, the smaller calibers required more rounds to send the body to his table.
No surprise there. Specifically, 9mm and .380 victims often had as many as 10 rounds in the abdominal region; .357 SIG, .40, and .45 deaths were often attributed to as few as 1 to 3 rounds. The 9mm and smaller rounds were sometimes unable to penetrate to the deeper organs, and were easily deflected by ribs and heavy clothing. The heavier rounds plowed through to decisively injure the deep vital organs.
There are limits for each type round, even the big ones. The .40 and .45 were ineffective if you needed to shoot through something, like a car door. The .357 SIG maintained killing power even through a car door. For a police officer the SIG seems the best choice. But, for me, that extra penetration power might result in the round striking some innocent kid who happened to be behind my attacker. I can't see many reasons why a civilian would need to shoot through a car, or wall.
From past experience I knew that I couldn't hit a fat elephant with a 1911 .45. So I tried out a Glock model 23 (.40 cal) and it fit my hand very naturally. The older gen 3 model 23's can be found used, but in good condition for around $500. I got a new gen 4 for about $600, and I'm still very happy with it.
At this point some of the more knowledgeable people here might be complaining that I have unnecessarily dismissed the virtues of the 9mm, and other rounds. I've read that the newer 9mm rounds are extremely effective.
So, you might want to go to a range which rents weapons, and try out several types. It's more important that you can hit the bad guy, even with a smaller slug, than miss him with a bazooka. BTW, don't forget to measure in the cost and availability of the bullets. Around here 9mm and .357 SIGs are hard to find; .40, and .45s are cheap and available.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:36 pm

Dagwood wrote:5 hand guns under 350


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDZSjMpwBAU

Very cool vid. Thank you for posting the link.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:39 pm

OsakaJ wrote:So, you might want to go to a range which rents weapons, and try out several types. It's more important that you can hit the bad guy, even with a smaller slug, than miss him with a bazooka. BTW, don't forget to measure in the cost and availability of the bullets. Around here 9mm and .357 SIGs are hard to find; .40, and .45s are cheap and available.

That's actually where I'm heading with this. There's no rush. I'm very happy to take my time & get to know the guns I'm considering.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:25 pm

StrangeDay wrote:I want it for protection & target shooting.
It's hard to go wrong with a used model of the big manufacturers (Glock, Baretta, Sig Sauer, H&K, Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Walther, and Ruger). Kel-Tec has a nice lineup for people on a budget. Used defensive handguns used to run around $300 for one in decent shape, but I don't know if that's still viable. I presume when you say "target shooting" you're not referring to bullseye competition. Those pistols are specialized, expensive and not suitable for protection. So I'll just assume you mean "shooting at targets to keep my skills up".

Since you want it for protection, my recommendation is nothing smaller than 9mm. Nonwithstanding osakaJ's post, what's more important than caliber is location. If you put it where you want it, a 9mm hole is just as effective as a .45" hole. Plenty people have been killed with .22 LR. Some of them even on purpose.

StrangeDay wrote:I'd love for it to cost less than $500.
I knew I forgot another potential source for bargains: Check your local gun shop and see if they have a consignment shelf. I usually see defensive handguns there for decent bargains, but not normally fantastic bargains.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:10 pm

Under $500, my choices would be Ruger or Walther.

Ruger's SR9 is a fine striker fired pistol and can be had for under $500 in 9mm and .40 S&W...the .45 ACP model is newer so it's a bit pricier right now.

On the cheaper side, you can get Ruger's P95. It's kinda blocky, and features a traditional single/double action design, but it's solid and dependable, and can be had for $350-$375 new. I've never fired one, but Ruger's been making it since the 90's, so if it was a dog then they'd have phased it out long ago.

Walther just came out with the PPX, which is their budget version of their super nice PPQ (it's what GLOCK shooters wish they could have in a duty pistol). It is a DAO hammer fired design. I handled one at the local shop and the trigger is really darn good for a DAO (there must be some preset happening somewhere) at around 6 pounds. I've seen these new for $400-$479.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:19 pm

At the risk of thread derailment... I am finding that one gun is not enough. 22LR ammo is much cheaper than anything else, so you're going to need both a 22 cal pistol and rifle. For your home, a semi-auto pistol in 9, 40, or 45 is a requirement. I chose a 9mm because it might not be me that needs to use it. If you need to kill your food, the 22 rifle will work for squirel and other small game, but at some point you will need to purchase a larger caliber rifle for deer, moose and bear. And in case of zombie attack you must have a shotgun handy. Well, the point is plan on buying more than one.

One gun that I had wished I had given a second look at before I bought my 22 double action revolver was Rugers single action revolver. They are a lot cheaper, and I find myself cocking the hammer on my double action anyways. I think it would be a good range gun.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:36 pm

Meh. I think I'd do better with a pistol-caliber carbine for home defense than a handgun. I'm babysitting a Marlin camp carbine in .45 ACP and I can hit stuff a lot more easily with that than e.g. a .40 Glock.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:25 pm

Darkmage wrote:I presume when you say "target shooting" you're not referring to bullseye competition. Those pistols are specialized, expensive and not suitable for protection. So I'll just assume you mean "shooting at targets to keep my skills up".

That's exactly it. I'm not going to win any prizes here. I'm just trying to hit some decent groupings at a range.

And, thank you guys for your advice!
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:59 am

bthylafh wrote:Meh. I think I'd do better with a pistol-caliber carbine for home defense than a handgun. I'm babysitting a Marlin camp carbine in .45 ACP and I can hit stuff a lot more easily with that than e.g. a .40 Glock.

Yes, but (there's always a "but" in these conversations) the carbine has disadvantages as well. For starters, it requires two hands which means there are several activities you cannot perform while holding it properly: flipping light switches, using a cell phone to call the police, opening doorknobs, shining a flashlight or holding your child. These may or may not be relevant to your situation, but you should be aware of them.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:52 am

Vrock wrote:Walther just came out with the PPX, which is their budget version of their super nice PPQ (it's what GLOCK shooters wish they could have in a duty pistol). It is a DAO hammer fired design. I handled one at the local shop and the trigger is really darn good for a DAO (there must be some preset happening somewhere) at around 6 pounds. I've seen these new for $400-$479.


I have a PPQ and its a excellent 9mm. I bought it for target shooting but will do for home defense in a pinch, I still prefer a .45 if I have to take on two legged predators in my home. I was intrigued by the Walther P99, the original version of what is now the PPQ, when I saw it in Tomorrow Never Dies. Come on now, who doesn't want a gun like the one used by 007? Especially one in a more useful caliber besides the little .380 of the PPK that was the default gun for 007. Several years later I was looking for a Browning Hi-Power and saw the PPQ in a gun shop. Needless to say I went home with the Walther and left the Browning behind for another day.

Shotgun I would recommend either a Mossberg 500, or the Maverick version of the Mossberg, or a Remington 870 pump action. The beatuy of those two are the fact you can get different length barrels for them so you can use a longer barrel for hunting and the rest of the time you can just attach a shorter barrel for home defense.

Rifles on the other hand really depends on what you want to do with it. Home defense and target shooting I would say a .223 of some kind, or a AK since 7.63x39 ammo is still fairly cheap for those. The .223 will do better at longer range than the typical AK will. Hunting really depends on what it is your hunting. A .30-06 is probably good for about everything if you can hit what your aiming at. Might make a mess of a smaller game but should be good for deer and the like.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:17 pm

Khali wrote:I was intrigued by the Walther P99, the original version of what is now the PPQ, when I saw it in Tomorrow Never Dies. Come on now, who doesn't want a gun like the one used by 007?
I had a Walther P99 in .40 as my carry gun for years. It was a fantastic gun with the best factory trigger I've ever seen on a pistol. I still regret selling it. Now I have the S&W version of the P99, the SW99 in .45 ACP. It's a good gun, but it's just not the same.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:51 pm

Darkmage wrote:
Khali wrote:I was intrigued by the Walther P99, the original version of what is now the PPQ, when I saw it in Tomorrow Never Dies. Come on now, who doesn't want a gun like the one used by 007?
I had a Walther P99 in .40 as my carry gun for years. It was a fantastic gun with the best factory trigger I've ever seen on a pistol. I still regret selling it. Now I have the S&W version of the P99, the SW99 in .45 ACP. It's a good gun, but it's just not the same.

Bwah? SW99? Are you making a funny about the M&P? Because I've never heard of this.

Also, the P99 is only James Bond's gun if you consider Pierce Brosnan to be James Bond (which I don't). This is James Bond's gun, and yes, it's another shameless plug for my very neglected blog. :P
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:53 am

Vrock wrote:Bwah? SW99? Are you making a funny about the M&P? Because I've never heard of this.
Vrock, would I lie to you? Flip-mode, sure, but you? :)

Nope, it actually exists. Smith & Wesson worked with Walther to produce the SW99 before S&W released the M&P series. My theory is that the M&P was in development and the SW99 was a way to get into the market quickly with a striker fired pistol that didn't suck (*cough* Sigma *cough*) while they refined the product.

Walther didn't offer the P99 in .45, but S&W, being a connoisseur of the American market, filled that void with the SW99. If anyone cares, you can see mine here.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:29 pm

Also, the P99 is only James Bond's gun if you consider Pierce Brosnan to be James Bond (which I don't). This is James Bond's gun, and yes, it's another shameless plug for my very neglected blog. :P

Pierce Brosnan was a far better bond than Timothy Dalton ever was let alone Daniel Craig. Sean Connery was the best followed by Pierce Brosnan.

As to the PPK, the 7.65 millimeter/.32 ACP caliber is whimpy, unless you hit some one right between the eyes, you will probably need to empty the whole magazine to slow some one down. On top of that, if you have large hands your going to lose some skin when the slide takes a bite out of the area between your thumb and fingers.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:50 pm

Just design a tuxedo with storage for an M1911. That should be within the capacities of Q Branch.
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:32 pm

Khali wrote:Pierce Brosnan was a far better bond than Timothy Dalton ever was let alone Daniel Craig. Sean Connery was the best followed by Pierce Brosnan.
Dalton played the character closer to the books, and in my opinion was an excellent but underrated Bond.

Khali wrote:As to the PPK, the 7.65 millimeter/.32 ACP caliber is whimpy, unless you hit some one right between the eyes, you will probably need to empty the whole magazine to slow some one down. On top of that, if you have large hands your going to lose some skin when the slide takes a bite out of the area between your thumb and fingers.
People forget that once upon a time not too long ago, police forces around Europe were equipped with guns chambered in 32 Auto. It's not my first choice for a defensive round, but it has its place. Also, the S&W PPKs have an extended beavertail to prevent the ham-fisted from being cut as you described. ;)
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Re: Choosing a new rifle.

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:46 pm

Vrock wrote:Dalton played the character closer to the books, and in my opinion was an excellent but underrated Bond.

Agreed. The literary Bond would never have sold well on the screen, especially today.
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