Google's Gmail going to court

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Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:37 am

It's going to be interesting to see how this turns out. Could change the world of free email if Google loses.

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-google_argues_for_right_to_continue_scan-ap
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:17 am

Google will not lose. At least I hope they won't - I do not want to pay extra $$$ for their services/OS. As for paranoid retards who do not like their Gmail to be scanned - there are plenty of other choices, noone is forcing these people to use this service.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:46 am

Gmail has been the best email service I have ever used and I don't want to change. I would pay Google a monthly fee to not have my email scanned for targeted ads. Adding a premium option would be welcome. Regardless of what happens, I doubt I'd leave Gmail.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:04 am

Has anyone pointed out to the idiots filing this lawsuit that if Gmail isn't allowed to scan the contents of the messages they can't do spam filtering for you?
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:18 am

they probably want google to scan only the spam emails, not the legit ones :)
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:20 am

just brew it! wrote:Has anyone pointed out to the idiots filing this lawsuit that if Gmail isn't allowed to scan the contents of the messages they can't do spam filtering for you?

I know, right? Many email providers were doing that for many years, now some idiot wakes up, spits out his/her pacifier and goes "Ermahgawd, Googles are scanning my spam letters and use this anonymous data for providing me with some free benefits, without spamming my Inbox with their own emails in return! Evil, evil, evil!!!1111111" :lol:
Last edited by JohnC on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:20 am

just brew it! wrote:Has anyone pointed out to the idiots filing this lawsuit that if Gmail isn't allowed to scan the contents of the messages they can't do spam filtering for you?

I'm guessing no.

Google should just make an "opt-out" button that disable spam filtering and the ads...I bet most people would switch back after a few days of junkmail filling up their inbox.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:39 am

Eh, there's a bit more to it than that. Google scans emails for key errors or sender information that can flag the email as spam. But Google also scans and /stores/ keywords used in your emails for ads. I can understand people being pissy over the matter. I'm not saying any other service is better, any other email provider aside from a select few do the same thing, the only way to avoid it is by running your own email server.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:46 am

Philldoe wrote:Eh, there's a bit more to it than that. Google scans emails for key errors or sender information that can flag the email as spam. But Google also scans and /stores/ keywords used in your emails for ads.

They've got to be storing information and scanning content as part of the spam filtering as well. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell it that something was a false positive and should be allowed through in the future.

Philldoe wrote:I'm not saying any other service is better, any other email provider aside from a select few do the same thing, the only way to avoid it is by running your own email server.

Yeah, I know someone who does that. Good luck getting your SMTP relay whitelisted with all of the ISPs and e-mail providers who automatically block anything that originates from a server that looks even remotely suspicious.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:28 am

just brew it! wrote:
Philldoe wrote:I'm not saying any other service is better, any other email provider aside from a select few do the same thing, the only way to avoid it is by running your own email server.

Yeah, I know someone who does that. Good luck getting your SMTP relay whitelisted with all of the ISPs and e-mail providers who automatically block anything that originates from a server that looks even remotely suspicious.

It's OK if you SMTP smarthost where your server just sends to your ISPs SMTP server and everything comes from them, especially if you can set SPF records. I've done it without getting marked as spam, but the big problem is the amount of spam you receive, even with spamassassin I was still getting a bunch through. Gmail for me all the way!
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:28 am

just brew it! wrote:Has anyone pointed out to the idiots filing this lawsuit that if Gmail isn't allowed to scan the contents of the messages they can't do spam filtering for you?


No kidding; and should they win (I don't think they will) these same idiots will be among the first to gripe about all the spam they're getting...

Frankly I think Google should just put in their terms of service that, hey, we scan your email and here's why. If you agree, great. If you don't agree, go find another email service.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:30 pm

JBI wrote:They've got to be storing information and scanning content as part of the spam filtering as well. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell it that something was a false positive and should be allowed through in the future.


BUT! Google shouldn't be "storing" those keywords from my emails at all! When I read my email, I shouldn't see or much, much less any . Google has no right to store that and therefore . It's an of my !

,

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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:52 pm

just brew it! wrote:Has anyone pointed out to the idiots filing this lawsuit that if Gmail isn't allowed to scan the contents of the messages they can't do spam filtering for you?

In his defense I didn't think of that, either. :p
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:05 pm

derfunkstein wrote:Has anyone pointed out to the idiots filing this lawsuit that if Gmail isn't allowed to scan the contents of the messages they can't do spam filtering for you?


It's even more complicated than that.

Look at the complaint (or what I suppose is in the complaint, as the article quotes):

"[Google] unlawfully opens up, reads, and acquires the content of people's private email messages"

Let's look at the language!

Opens up: This is nothing more than a metaphor, and is woefully misplaced. It's intended to invoke the mental of image of someone opening physical mail, but email has no such analogue.

Reads: This is ambiguous. Arguably Google "reads" your email by the mere act of sending/receiving it.

Acquires the content: I'd hope so, unless everyone likes always empty mailboxes.

Their complaint is that Google email actually works.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:40 pm

To be honest, I dont know anybody that was FORCED to use gmail, hence, every part of the service is opt-in. If you dont want them to scan your mail, there are other mail services out there that also scan you... oh... now i see what they did. Nothing.

When will people learn, e-mail is never private unless you actually encrypt the contents and dont decrypt them until they are on your computer.

With regards to stupid lawsuits, I really think this one took the price. Yeah, Ministry of sound claims they own the right to enforce deletion of users mixed playlists because they essentially mirror their song collections.

Ministry of Sound sues Spotify
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23956750
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:23 pm

Aphasia wrote:When will people learn, e-mail is never private unless you actually encrypt the contents and dont decrypt them until they are on your computer.

But... but... The Cloud! Everything is supposed to be stored in The Cloud now! Keeping copies of your own e-mail on storage media you actually own is so backward and old-fashioned. Think of the children... and the kittens... and the share prices of all the "cloud" service providers.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:26 pm

just brew it! wrote:But... but... The Cloud! Everything is supposed to be stored in The Cloud now! Keeping copies of your own e-mail on storage media you actually own is so backward and old-fashioned. Think of the children... and the kittens... and the share prices of all the "cloud" service providers.

No sir, this regulator does not like the Cloud, not one bit. I don't like things I can't directly examine/review/audit and I don't like my institutions not knowing exactly where in meatspace their non-public personally-identifiable information is stored.
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Re: Google's Gmail going to court

Postposted on Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:41 pm

notfred wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Philldoe wrote:I'm not saying any other service is better, any other email provider aside from a select few do the same thing, the only way to avoid it is by running your own email server.

Yeah, I know someone who does that. Good luck getting your SMTP relay whitelisted with all of the ISPs and e-mail providers who automatically block anything that originates from a server that looks even remotely suspicious.

It's OK if you SMTP smarthost where your server just sends to your ISPs SMTP server and everything comes from them, especially if you can set SPF records. I've done it without getting marked as spam, but the big problem is the amount of spam you receive, even with spamassassin I was still getting a bunch through. Gmail for me all the way!


Although the ISP is probably doing some spam filtering on it's relay servers to ensure they aren't being abused. I'm pretty sure you couldn't win if you were someone who wants to wear a tinfoil hat.
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