Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:04 am

clone wrote:
Ah, so they "diagnosed it" by flooring it and hitting 100+ MPH while "taking it around the block".

I'm not going to bother arguing it Captain Ned because it's obvious you don't understand but they didn't need to give it half throttle to hit 100mph..... no flooring it, no "YEE HAWWWW WE BE GOING FAST". 612hp, lightweight and no stability control..... no "floored" it, no "half throttled it fast".

I have no idea where you're even coming from here. First you argue that these guys are car experts who knew what they were doing, then you're essentially arguing that they were going 100 MPH purely by accident? You can't have it both ways.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:07 pm

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Last edited by clone on Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:52 pm

clone wrote:when Captain Ned said "they floored it" .... that's ham fisted, what they were doing was most likely deliberate, methodical, right up until the moment it all went wrong.

"To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!"

For the record, that's both Captain Ahab and Khan Noonien Singh.

A simple admission that a lack of judgment caused the crash will be sufficient.

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:58 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:47 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:52 pm

all things considered I'm convinced it was a combination of throttle input exaggerated by the mid engine placement (upon exiting the corner/pendulum effect) combined with a lack of stability control and the Porsches very wide turning radius all working together to make a typically minor, recoverable, mistake not so much. the Porsche came out of the corner lost traction and went into a wide uncontrolled spin putting them off the road and finally into a tree where they died.


OK

So after much thought and investigation, you have exactly what was said at the start of the thread:

This is what happens when unqualified drivers play boy racer.


People who want to live, they avoid crashing into tree in excess of 100 mph. :wink:

Now, you seem to think that what they did is not "stupid" :oops:

You are right, it just makes them dead.

They are no longer able to make any more "stupid" decisions. :wink:
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:10 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:20 pm

clone wrote:I believe I know why they crashed. which is considerably different from your "stupid" opinion.

Doesn't matter. The black box confirms speeds in excess of 100 MPH. If I were a tort lawyer pursuing a PI case, I could stop there and win every time. Unless you're going to try out the old Audi "unintended acceleration" argument (later found conclusively to be drivers with their foot on the gas when they claimed they were stomping on the brakes) you've run out of excuses you can make for them. Add to that the new revelation that the car was not 100% mechanically correct yet it was driven as if it was 100% and it's bloody clear to most rational people that the driver did something to cause the crash. Short of video showing me the Millennium Falcon buzzing the industrial park at the exact moment of the crash, there is no external cause.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:23 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:51 pm

shameful to be honest and I'm the one that's called stupid because I refuse to join in on the "bookburning."

literally Captain Ned you have been fighting amongst others not to know.


Yeah, its exactly the opposite...you are making a superhuman effort not to know!!!
You throw out all evidence that you don't like.

you are proceeding in the exact opposite of any scientific method.

Sherlock Holmes fitted the evidence, no matter how improbable to the conclusion.
You attempt to find evidence, no matter how improbable, to support your presumption.

book burners attempt to ignore facts,history, ideas....exactly what you are doing.

keep at it, one day I am sure that you will prove that fluoride in the water causes aids and autism!!!!
(something that Paul Walker was about to prove before a big one world government group ordered his assassination; cloaked in a common speeding accident)
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:08 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:49 pm

why you so foolishly implied all racing is stupid


All street racing.

This is why you fail.
You don't listen to what I, or anyone in the known universe have to say.

I guess that just makes you special. :wink:

why you consider opinion fact.


fact:

He raced in the street

Fact:

He died.

General, common sense:

Doing something that makes you dead, with no greater purpose, is stupid.


It just doesn't get any more complex than this. But, as I say, good luck with your tin hat conspiracy. :wink:
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:35 am

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:19 pm

clone wrote:here I'll help by highlighting my summation:
...



If they couldn't handle the road and car conditions, they shouldn't have tried.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:50 pm

Well now, I see this is still going on since the last time paid any attention to it a several days ago. I think the underlying argument can be summed up like this.

Clone thinks there is never a bad time to go fast. He himself has said his boss has given him grief over the way he rides a motorcycle. I'm guessing he heard the term "Speed is life" some time in his life and applies it to everything instead of what it was supposed to apply to, Fighter Pilots in combat.

I had a similar belief in my late teens early twenties. A couple of accidents pushed that failing idea right out of my head. Speed, any speed can be dangerous depending on the conditions. 35 mph on a icy country road can be deadly, I know, I found out the hard way and totaled a car doing it. 10 mph on a mountain side can kill too. I've seen it, a buddy in a Jeep hit some lose rock and down he went into a ravine no one knew, not even the park rangers knew, was there. So yeah, 100 mph in a industrial park, on a curvy road, in a unstable car was stupid.

The point every one is trying to pound into your head, Clone, is that speed under any condition can possibly be deadly. The conditions in the accident that is the main discussion are clearly dangerous to all of us. There is a time and place where going fast can be fun and a thrill, yet done fairly safely. You have yet to figure out when and where that is.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:36 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:59 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:10 pm

I can't believe I have to add to this train wreck of a thread, but I just couldn't let this go by. :evil:

clone wrote:2nd part: all street racing?.... Detroit, Toronto, & Montreal Grand Prix's, F1 cars racing through the city.... like those street races?.... they don't repave Detroit, Toronto and Montreal every year for those races with special "racing pavement".... nor do they knock the city down so the cars can slide safely.
There are two meanings associated with "street racing":

1) Bunch of idiots using the public roads as a race track whilst the roads are open to the public. This is illegal and STUPID. This is what happened here, they were idiots.

2) An officially sanctioned event where the public roads are closed, safety barriers are erected, track is checked (and sometimes sections are repaved if too damaged), marshals and medical staff are present. This is legal and whilst not perfectly safe, is as safe as people can make it.

It doesn't matter what the cause of the accident is, they were driving at racing speeds on open public roads which is stupid.

If you do work out that there was some completely unprecedented breakage on the car, it doesn't alleviate them from being idiots by street racing. The two are orthogonal. Even if they hadn't crashed they were still idiots for driving like that on roads that were open to the public.

I have a strong interest in accident investigations and love reading aircraft incident reports and such from an engineering perspective. I would be interested to find out what happened here but the strongest odds are the driver ran out of skill and that is simply not that interesting.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:15 pm

If you're truly "trying to find out what caused the accident" you would be looking at all of the evidence objectively, instead of dismissing out-of-hand anything that hints at the possibility that it was the result of faulty judgement. I'm certainly willing to consider the possibility of some sort of freak mechanical failure, though it seems rather unlikely to me that this could have been the sole cause. IMO an unbiased observer, based on the evidence available so far, would be hard pressed to not conclude that they screwed up.

This really looks like a case of pilot error... possibly exacerbated by other factors.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:25 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:43 pm

clone wrote:La Carrera Panamericana or The Isle of Man TT? they not only race the entire Island but only close one lane for practice and have racers racing the entire Island while the public goes about it's business driving in the other lane.



You're invoking the Isle of Man TT? That's one of the most dangerous races in the world, with hundreds of drivers killed. During the 'open lane practice', dozens of people get injured every year, both riders and spectators. It's unique in its danger, and is not representative of races in general. This isn't the example you should invoke if you want to extol the virtues of public road racing.

At any rate, your own conclusion indicates that the crash resulted from the drivers not knowing how to properly handle the vehicle at high speed.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:56 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:22 pm

clone wrote:The Isle of Man TT along with La Cerrera Panamerica combined with the 3 Grand Prix's I mentioned are races held on public roads which goes against the "public roads + racing ='s stupid" crowd because racing on public roads has been going on for a century.


All it means is that people are okay with the risks involved. That doesn't make it a good idea. Besides, the roads are still closed and prepped, and in the case of the IoM, are only 'public' for a certain stretch. Not the same thing, but even so, racing under those conditions to me qualifies as a dumb move, and judging by the controversy those races stir up every year, I'm not the only one who thinks this way.


all things considered I'm convinced it was a combination of throttle input exaggerated by the mid engine placement (upon exiting the corner/pendulum effect) combined with a lack of stability control and the Porsches very wide turning radius all working together to make a typically minor, recoverable, mistake not so much. the Porsche came out of the corner lost traction and went into a wide uncontrolled spin putting them off the road and finally into a tree where they died.


This eloquently states that either the drivers of the car were not qualified to drive it in the manner they did, or the car should not have been driven by anyone in that manner. You put it very well!
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:25 pm

clone, been agreeing with you most of the thread. You for sure you know automotives more than I beleive anyone posting here. Not to say others are completely wrong, but more was going on instead of the generic uninformed person with little to no automotive background saying, what they read and the obvious, that it was too fast. I've only taken it so far as autocrossing and messing around on runways, but there was a lot going on in that accident, 100 percent agree on your theory. I haven't driven the GT, only older 911s, so I am unaware how bad it oversteers when the rear breaks loose. But from track footage, when she goes its fast and almost unrecoverable. I am curious as to the tire that was on the car, as my summers behave very different without being properly taken to temp first, plus road temp.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:38 pm

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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:49 pm

clone wrote:whether or not it's a good idea is up to the ppl involved and not for you or I to judge now is it? ... it doesn't judge, that is what you want to do.

This seems like a rather bizarre form of political correctness to me. So we're not allowed to criticize people when they needlessly put their own or others' safety at risk?
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:46 pm

This seems like a rather bizarre form of political correctness to me. So we're not allowed to criticize people when they needlessly put their own or others' safety at risk?
you can do whatever you want, judge if you like, but don't get riled if it's exposed for being silly.
Geforce 6200 wrote:clone, been agreeing with you most of the thread.
lol, while not a prerequisite it's always nice to hear.

y'know, I'm glad in a way that most took such an aggressive stance regarding this incident. I initially assumed the simplest answer was likely closer to correct than not (based on the barest of facts). ppl were so aggressive against anyone being objective that around the end of page 3 I decided I should probably look further into it than not at all, the vitriol was in such notably poor taste.

makes my first few posts wrong but I'm glad I learned enough to put together a reasonable summation based on the limited data available.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:38 am

clone wrote:The Isle of Man TT? they not only race the entire Island but only close one lane on practice day and have racers racing the entire Island while the public goes about it's business driving in the other lane.
No they don't, here is the information from the Isle of Man Government on the TT for 2013 http://www.gov.im/media/634157/25935cla ... fo_v16.pdf
Isle Of Man Government wrote:The Classic TT Course is entirely comprised of public roads, and these roads are closed during practices and racing.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:47 am

lol damn, this thread needs to rest in peace.
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Re: Rest in peace, Paul Walker...

Postposted on Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:11 am

Cyco-Dude wrote:lol damn, this thread needs to rest in peace.

Seriously.

This should have been a simple "RIP [person you might recognize]" thread.
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