I've got a problem....

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I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:04 am

So I have a little problem but first some background. A few years ago I was a Server admin and on my companies server team. I was sort of satisfied but when it came to advancement to like senior server admin there was little hope for this unless I was willing to leave the company. Something which I dont want to do because it really is a good company. The benefits are fantastic and so are the perks. In my mind those things add up when you dont have them anymore. And besides since college I got tired of jumping from company to company. I have now been here 12 years. And while sometimes it feels a little like "time to make the donuts" (yeah I just dated myself) overall its been good.

So a few years ago I realized that there was very little hopes for advancement. However, I was sequestered for a neat little project that eventually brought in SharePoint to the company. After we built the infrastructure and got it in place it was noted that we needed a dedicated SharePoint team, admins, devs, analysts the whole nine yards. So I left for the SharePoint team, which in reality consisted of the project team only adding some BAs and a manager.

Fast forward to today, the team has evolved and so have I. I have moved from doing anything Server Admin or hardware related to being a SharePoint developer. I develop apps on/ in SharePoint using .NET, Javascript, CSS, HTML5.....etc. And I am pretty much happy. I also have to say never in a million years did I think I would be coding. But here I am. Code Monkey Extraordinaire, heh.

Which brings me to my issue at hand. I got started late in this coding business and everyday I am learning something new. And to be really honest I am behind the power curve when it comes to my coding abilities when I am compared to some of the other developers and especially the millenials coming out of college. However, I have other skills because of previous jobs that other devs just don't have. One in particular is that I can meet and talk with just about anybody about anything. Its easy for me and I see others (yes the millenials) struggle with this.

Anyways recently I discovered a coworker of mine was trying to undermine if not sabotage a project that I am working on. While they haven't done anything nefarious like change my code they have gone behind my back to talk to the customer and put these 'crazy' ideas in their heads. Somethings like stuff I just cant possibly deliver given the time frame I am given for the project. And stuff that just introduces a plethora of scope creep that doesn't exist in the requirements of the project.

So how do you guys deal with coworkers like this? As of late I'm not one to rock the boat because the way I see it I have a good thing here and wouldn't want to jeopardize it. Besides the 'old' me would have went thermo-nuclear war on this person......but not now.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:18 am

Oy vey, that's a mess. Much of your response will be dictated by how you and your nefarious coworker are viewed by the next upper level of management. Other thoughts:

Is coworker trying to find a way to leave and grab clients to start his own business?

Don't denigrate your abilities to make business connections and deal with people in the business world while still having some coding skills. In my mind that puts you in a place to evaluate both the business proposition and the likelihood that the coders can deliver what Marketing promises. In my direct day-job experience, that's a rare combination and a valuable one.

Pure code jockeys with no people skills will eventually wear out their welcome with management, unless management is infested with millenials.

Good luck, and fight the good fight. Beating millenials is all about the people skills with non-millenials. Millenials simply can't relate to the old farts that sign their paychecks.

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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:59 am

Captain Ned wrote:...Beating millenials...

What? Don't beat millenials :cry:

Kidding aside, given your account of the situation, it is possible that there is a misunderstanding. The other party might just have a lot of grand ideas and want to sell big to the customer. In which case, you just need to reel this person in and contain the scope of the project. Any time the customer is getting sold on a new idea (or a new feature), remind everyone that it is not in the scope, and delivering on said idea is going to take more time and/or money. This gives the customer a good reason to back off the idea, and even if the customer decides to pay for the increased scope, management can veto due to labor contraints.

That's a general way of dealing with scope creep, but if you are having a real problem with this coworker, it would be best to resolve it quickly rather than let it grow into something more problematic. Confront the individual if you can. "Confront" is not a very good word because you don't want to be "confrontational". You just want to have a conversation about controlling scope and make it clear what is okay and what is not. Keep it as friendly as possible and he or she will be more likely to listen. Of course if that does not work, then you might need to involve your manager(s).

I had an issue last year where my coworker on a project was basically gating everything I did. I don't think he was being nefarious, but he was basically acting as a boss of mine (even though I was already reporting to our direct manager and a program contact). I am not very good at confronting others, so this ended up getting escalated to our manager, he was told to back off, and I was told that I may need to contact HR if I felt retaliated against. Definitely not something I want to repeat...
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:05 pm

There is really more to this that I didnt initially say. This person was brought to our team because of another issue they had with their previous team. And they went to HR about it. While I have been with SharePoint since day one, they came in way after the fact and walked in like they knew everything there was about SharePoint. And to make issues worse they are not even a dev but an analyst. They arent even a part of the project except that they talk to some of the same people, as far as the business unit is concerned, that are a part of the project.

My feeling is that I may just have to go to management and let them handle it. But then I worry as how I would be perceived? The trouble maker, the boat rocker......

Its really not a good situation. Especially when they have a history themselves as being as such.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:36 pm

Well you also don't want the situation to get out of hand. In the end it will be up to your judgment for when to talk to the individual and when to talk to management. I just wouldn't want you to contact management after something blows up in the project...

If this individual was moved due to issues with another team, then that might be a strike against this person from mangement and HR's perspective. There is a point at which a troublesome employee isn't worth it anymore, but that has to be documented.

Don't worry about being a "troublemaker" or "boat rocker." If a complaint is never reported, then no one will know about it and the problem will continue.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:27 pm

You've got seniority? Can his ass. Done. The thing about those with a coder-only skillset is that you can snag more of them from college. You're more diverse and more valuable to the company. If your management doesn't realize that and supports that turd instead of you, then it's time to move on.

You've got golden handcuffs, so to speak. Don't let yourself be crapped on because of the perks you like. If the company doesn't value you, it'll just get worse.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:52 pm

You probably have some pretty good currency having been there 12 years. You've been there long enough, and you were a founding member of the team. It's kind of your baby too, and you have seniority.

I would let the project manager know about the situation. The PM is probably not going to be too happy about the scope creep and the possibility of missing delivery dates. Let the PM fight that fight; it's what they get paid to do.

If you are the PM, cut the guy off from client contact, and have him spend the rest of his time getting everyone coffee. Of course, explain why.

superjawes wrote:Don't worry about being a "troublemaker" or "boat rocker." If a complaint is never reported, then no one will know about it and the problem will continue.


As long as you're not causing a lot of drama, you should be fine. The thing about management is that they don't get much feedback. No one wants to be "that guy" who is always complaining, but the reality is "that guy" can be a good source of information for management since no one wants to admit there are problems.

There was some Google manager that talked about making decisions that would get you fired. I don't remember who, and I can't find the piece. Anyway, they gist of it was to make the hard decisions, like slipping a release date to do things the right way or fix a problem.

Captain Ned wrote:Pure code jockeys with no people skills will eventually wear out their welcome with management, unless management is infested with millenials. Millenials simply can't relate to the old farts that sign their paychecks.


Part of good management is about knowing how to people who have different strengths. Some people are better suited to certain tasks then others, and it's not just millenial thing. I've seen this play out with people at least ten years my senior.

Most people are only self-interested, and their interest in other people stops at their nose. It's just a human thing.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:56 pm

Scrotos wrote:You've got golden handcuffs, so to speak. Don't let yourself be crapped on because of the perks you like. If the company doesn't value you, it'll just get worse.


There was a Staff Sergeant that once said about his rank, "Easy come, easy go. I picked it up once, and I would pick it up again."
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:03 pm

superjawes wrote:Don't worry about being a "troublemaker" or "boat rocker." If a complaint is never reported, then no one will know about it and the problem will continue.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:53 pm

Your project. If it fails, it is all on you. If you have an opportunity in a sprint or scrum meeting wherein you are asked about the project, it could be a good time to bring up your concerns since you feel the actions of that individual could impact/impair your progress. It would be an easy opportunity to discuss the issue without having initiated the subject.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:21 pm

You're going to have to address this whether you want to or not, because if your project fails because of his "ideas" it's going to make you look bad and, depending on the importance of the project, it may make your manger look bad. Managers HATE anything that makes them look bad. It's better to be the complainer in these sorts of situations because management will see you as being "proactive" and bringing potential issues to them to solve so they can justify their salaries to their managers. Basically, at the end of the day it's going to be your word against his. Unless you're a serial complainer (which you don't sound like because you seem reluctant to complain about this at all), since you've been with the company for 12 years and he has already been transferred off one team due to HR issues, management will probably side with you.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:50 am

So yeah, talking with this person this morning seems to fall on deaf ears. No other course but to talk to my Manager and the Project Manager. I would like to say I feel bad but I dont, this person is so difficult to work with that I really don't care. I just wish they would stay out of my business. >.<

Thanks to all of you that replied, you've made this situation a little better.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:06 am

Don't feel bad. It's just business. It's nothing personal against the guy. You have a product to deliver, and that's that the first and foremost thing to remember.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:32 am

The way I see it you're either the boat rocker or they guy that failed to deliver, take your poison.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:32 am

Tazer his A$$ if that does not work then something stronger is in order :)
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:42 am

tanker27 wrote:Thanks to all of you that replied, you've made this situation a little better.

/internetsupportgroup

Good luck.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:03 pm

Its kinda funny that I intentionally avoided gender pronouns and almost everyone assumed its a 'him'. :P

Meetings went well. I was told not to worry about it that they both will handle it and I have the requirements just stick to that. Turn any other questions back to the PM or simply say, "We can investigate that in a future release or upgrade."

Needless to say I think my manager got the hint that I would prefer not to ever work with this person even though they are on my team. 8)
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:16 pm

Good to hear, man. You did the right thing going to your manager. There's nothing worse than keeping that kind of stuff to yourself.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:18 pm

tanker27 wrote:Its kinda funny that I intentionally avoided gender pronouns and almost everyone assumed its a 'him'. :P


Just playing the odds. :)
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:34 pm

You have a few options for conflict resolution, direct confrontation, taking it to management, probably some others I'm not thinking of. What you want to do really depends on your relationship to this person and the overall effect it would have on it and your relationships to rest of the team and company (in that order of importance too).

I can offer one great piece of advice though. Document EVERYTHING. Any contact you have with them, anything they have said to clients or the team. Write it all down and date it. In the worst case situation if this becomes a your word vs theirs, the person who has a detailed journal of everything that's happened will look much more legitimate.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:51 pm

BobbinThreadbare wrote:Y Document EVERYTHING.



I am the master at documentation. At the end of the year when it comes time to do self appraisals and toot my own horn my manger/s usually end up with a 100 page + Word doc that outlines everything I have done for the past year. It includes every date and time I had a meeting, who I talked with, action items, Change requests, Incident requests, "HEY YOUs", Classes, Time off, sick days, I mean EVERYTHING! I am thinking of just adding a personal work blog to my domain and giving them the link and a password to it.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:21 pm

Captain Ned wrote:Beating millenials is all about the people skills with non-millenials.

From the blood-soaked throne of lolcats I make war with thee, sir. :P

I agree with superjawes, this sounds like the unintentional work of a brash chevalier or possibly a serial BSer, not a premeditated backstab. Those of us under 30 have been conditioned to have blind faith in our own infallibility until some great calamity knocks us over. Then we spend months, possibly years, in deep contemplation and soul-searching in an attempt to reconcile the self as myth with the self as reality. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:35 am

NovusBogus wrote: Those of us under 30 have been conditioned to have blind faith in our own infallibility until some great calamity knocks us over. Then we spend months, possibly years, in deep contemplation and soul-searching in an attempt to reconcile the self as myth with the self as reality. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is.


Really? Cause somebody needs to get the word out as there are plenty that dont do this. In fact millenials seem to live in their own reality that they fabricated which is really a juxtaposition to the real world.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:21 am

tanker27 wrote:I am the master at documentation. At the end of the year when it comes time to do self appraisals and toot my own horn my manger/s usually end up with a 100 page + Word doc that outlines everything I have done for the past year. It includes every date and time I had a meeting, who I talked with, action items, Change requests, Incident requests, "HEY YOUs", Classes, Time off, sick days, I mean EVERYTHING! I am thinking of just adding a personal work blog to my domain and giving them the link and a password to it.

Wow. I guess I'm at the opposite extreme; I suspect being somewhere in between is probably best. And I do need to start playing that game better; as the division I work for has grown (and gotten sold off to a large multinational mega-corp) things have gotten a lot more political than they were when I started there 8 years ago.

Consider this though: If you overwhelm them with information they're not going to read most of it. Hopefully you at least preface it with an "executive summary" that hits the high points?
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:49 am

JBI,

I do. I hit the high points with hyperlinks to more info deeper in the document. When I first started working for this company I met someone I went to college with. He was a senior when I was a freshman and because the school was a military school I feared him at the time. We became good friends while working together for 5 years before he moved on (He now works as a Diplomatic Secret Service agent, IT wasn't for him) He mentored me and one of the things he taught me was Cover Your Ass and document everything. And boy was he right. As the company has evolved in the past 12 years and management has come and gone, I cant tell you how many times my documentation saved my ass. (well not really saved but sure did help my cause)

When I first started out it was difficult to keep up but now its second nature. I take an hour a day usually from 3-4, because I work a 7-4 schedule, to document that day. I kinda finding relaxing and use it as a wind down from the day before I go home. If a project or meeting is important enough I document on the spot. HEH, most meetings people think I'm taking notes when in reality I am documenting the meeting.

Am I a bit overzealous or OCD about it, probably. But I tend to think I am helping my management and myself especially when it comes to self appraisals which are tied to my yearly raises. The fact that I have always gotten a raise and that its always been more than the baseline 3% I think it works.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:07 am

tanker27 wrote:
NovusBogus wrote: Those of us under 30 have been conditioned to have blind faith in our own infallibility until some great calamity knocks us over. Then we spend months, possibly years, in deep contemplation and soul-searching in an attempt to reconcile the self as myth with the self as reality. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is.


Really? Cause somebody needs to get the word out as there are plenty that dont do this. In fact millenials seem to live in their own reality that they fabricated which is really a juxtaposition to the real world.


I believe this syndrome is called "Being in your 20s".
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:54 am

tanker27 wrote:Am I a bit overzealous or OCD about it, probably. But I tend to think I am helping my management and myself especially when it comes to self appraisals which are tied to my yearly raises. The fact that I have always gotten a raise and that its always been more than the baseline 3% I think it works.

I suppose I would be more motivated to do something like that if I believed performance appraisals had much of a connection to raises and/or bonuses. Under the previous regime the entire process was subject to so many levels of capriciousness (all the way up to the CFO), and the appraisal process seemingly had so little weight in it, that a dice roll would've probably worked about as well. I guess I should give the new regime a chance, though the two (or three, depending on how you count) levels of management immediately above me got ported over from the old one so... yeah.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:24 am

The 2 IT jobs I've had also had pointless performance appraisals. Management didn't want to put in the time to properly do it. There weren't really any metrics. Just their perception of how hard and well you work.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:54 pm

just brew it! wrote:
tanker27 wrote:Am I a bit overzealous or OCD about it, probably. But I tend to think I am helping my management and myself especially when it comes to self appraisals which are tied to my yearly raises. The fact that I have always gotten a raise and that its always been more than the baseline 3% I think it works.

I suppose I would be more motivated to do something like that if I believed performance appraisals had much of a connection to raises and/or bonuses. Under the previous regime the entire process was subject to so many levels of capriciousness (all the way up to the CFO), and the appraisal process seemingly had so little weight in it, that a dice roll would've probably worked about as well. I guess I should give the new regime a chance, though the two (or three, depending on how you count) levels of management immediately above me got ported over from the old one so... yeah.


I keep track of this stuff for my resume.
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Re: I've got a problem....

Postposted on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:55 pm

Flatland_Spider wrote:I keep track of this stuff for my resume.

Point taken. But it has gotten to the point where I'm actually trying to figure out what I can leave *off* the resume to keep it to a reasonable length, versus looking for more stuff to put *on* it. I suppose I ought to keep a comprehensive list of bullet points that I can pick and choose from to tailor resumes to specific targets. I do keep all of the old versions, so I can go back and mine those as needed.
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