Flight 370

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Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:02 am

Not since DB Cooper high-jacked a 727 and then just disappeared has there been anything like this.

So what everyone's thoughts with this missing plane? Did it crash or did it get high-jacked and flown to an undisclosed location and if so who did it?

Personally, it sounds so surreal like how Lost first started out. I cannot believe that in this day and age a whole plane could go missing like this. Its like nobody knows anything and what news is being reported is all conjecture or just W-A-Gs.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:30 am

Here is a good writeup of a theory that's gaining steam. Basically, MH370 slipped into the radar shadow of another 777 flight, SIA68, which was flying from Singapore to Spain. This explains how it could have flown through radar-heavy areas like India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan undetected.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:37 am

That's some serious theory. And if true.....makes this story even more crazy and unbelievable. My question is 'if' it landed whats happened to the passengers? If it was an act of terrorism why has no terrorist group come forward? (which is usually their MO) Sooo many questions and not enough concrete answers.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:44 am

Speculation to be sure, but there are rumors now that the plane was hi-jacked and flown under the radar into Pakistan. Hard to believe because even if it was hijacked, you'd think there would be multiple ways to communicate that via someone on the plane. If it were true, then it's likely that our various bureaus have already accessed the records of anyone they could who was booked on that flight. To be sure, not a great news source but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 95320.html
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:04 am

I think those poor passengers and most if not all of the crew were killed when the plane went to 45,000 ft. The pilot/hijacker could then do a controlled depressurization of the passenger cabin killing the passengers in a short time. Even if those cheesy O2 masks dropped from the overhead compartments I believe they only last around 15 min. I found this on another passenger plane's passenger O2 supply.

How long do the passenger self-contained chemical oxygen generators last? Each chemical oxygen generator provides approximately a 15 minute supply of pure oxygen under pressure.

Horrible way to go,I bet at 45K that 15 min is cut in half along with panicked people it probably took 5 minutes.

I truly hope it did crash, but it is looking unlikely more and more.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:27 am

AustinW wrote:Here is a good writeup of a theory that's gaining steam. Basically, MH370 slipped into the radar shadow of another 777 flight, SIA68, which was flying from Singapore to Spain. This explains how it could have flown through radar-heavy areas like India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan undetected.


One theory that has been floating around the military is that this was a rehearsal of sorts - basically a way of determining if they could in fact evade radar for an extended amount of time and over a wide area. You can imagine the damage someone could do if they managed to sneak a 777 or something similar into the airspace of a large city, or even into a large airport.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:31 am

vargis14 wrote:I think those poor passengers and most if not all of the crew were killed when the plane went to 45,000 ft. The pilot/hijacker could then do a controlled depressurization of the passenger cabin killing the passengers in a short time. Even if those cheesy O2 masks dropped from the overhead compartments I believe they only last around 15 min. I found this on another passenger plane's passenger O2 supply.

How long do the passenger self-contained chemical oxygen generators last? Each chemical oxygen generator provides approximately a 15 minute supply of pure oxygen under pressure.

Horrible way to go,I bet at 45K that 15 min is cut in half along with panicked people it probably took 5 minutes.

I truly hope it did crash, but it is looking unlikely more and more.


From what I've read, if you have to go on a plane, depressurization isn't so bad. You supposedly lose consciousness very quickly and just never wake up. I was told you would feel loopy, then sleepy, then you're gone. What it actually looks or feels like to someone who's conscious somehow, no idea.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:07 am

I think it is a completely different story when you are aware you are going to suffocate to death, also at 45,000 ft your eardrums would probably hurt soo bad possibly burst open from within, the complete oposite of diving deep in water without equalizing your eardrums. Then the o2 masks fall in front of your face when the cabin reached a atmosphere of 14,000 ft....screaming everywhere, mounting on top of the initial stress of knowing the plane you are on has been hijacked. It would be sheer terror for the people on board.

I would rather get shot not knowing it is coming then go through 15 minute's or longer of terror, seeing people having convulsions from lack of O2. No one can tell how they would react in that type of situation unless you have some super soldier training like a navy seal ETC.
Even with training and experience in close combat might not steel your nerves when fighting a unseen foe and being surrounded by pure chaos.

Gosh where do I get this stuff from...scary s@#t.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:50 am

The 777 is certified to go to 43,100 feet.

I wonder if the pilot just was playing "flight simulator" with a real plane, things went bad, really bad.
The main cabin depressurized from a breach, he dived to try to bring the plane within altitude, but people many died.

And from this mistake he decided to never land the plane as he knew his career was over and he would just end it all. And set the plane off until it would run out of fuel and crash in the indian ocean.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:01 am

vargis14 wrote:Gosh where do I get this stuff from...scary s@#t.

Just pull the circuit breaker powering the emergency O2 system then depressurize. It'll be over in 30 seconds.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:11 pm

Weren't there reports that a cellphone signal was received from the plane? If true, it would ascertain some sort of emergency was involved. At this point it could either be a problem with the plane that alerted the passengers that something was wrong and so some folks tried to call their loved ones to say goodbye, but the 12-minute gap between the outage if the transponder and the ACARS system also rules out the possibility of a quick demise. Now we know they were manually turned off. This piece of info combined with the mobile phone signal almost concludes hijacking or terrorism was involved. There was probably a struggle. Perhaps some passengers thought it was gonna be a repeat of 9/11 and decided to fight back, which ultimately compromised the safety of the aircraft. I mean, why turn off the transponder? They either wanna steal the plane or use it to attack something.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:24 pm

There's no reliable report of cell phone connections. Most of what I've read is that what people heard was simply the carrier trying to find the phone. Besides, at cruising speed & altitude you'd be handing off towers every few seconds.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:38 pm

The reports I've seen about cellphone stuff have been that people calling passengers cellphones are getting the ringing signal on some of them. I've not seen any reports of cell signals out of the plane. The ringing signal can be explained by the phones never having signed out of the network i.e. they were not powered off while in range of a tower, instead the plane flew out of range of a tower. It doesn't mean that the phones are still active and actually ringing.

vargis14 - you are way off on hypoxia, as others have said you just become drowsy and pass out. I know that they can drop the masks on command from the front, I don't know if they can also prevent them from dropping - I suspect yes as it would allow for an unpressurised ferry flight without the rubber jungle. The pilot only needs to put on his mask, disable the cabin masks from dropping and then slowly raise the cabin altitude for people to go quietly to sleep and never wake up. See Helios Airways Flight 522. By raising the altitude slowly the ears equalise and you will not feel the difference. Warm the cabin as well and they will feel sleepy earlier.

I've seen reports that some of the other Boeings have an electronics bay at the back of the plane that would be accessible from the passenger cabin. It could be the case that a passenger meddled in there first taking out the ACARS before the pilots were aware of anything, hence their calm radio call later. Or it is the first officer given that the ACARS was switched off before the calm radio call.

Where the plane is and why are still wide open. What we have learnt is that there are a bunch of countries with poor military radar surveillance. I can see a bunch of radar manufacturers rubbing their hands with glee. Even if ML370 were closely shadowing another plane, there's the opportunity to sell the radar operators an upgrade with better spacial resolution to resolve that one return in to two.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:53 pm

It terms of what this means for the future, I find it more likely that regulatory agencies will require GPS modules on every flight* (no, not all commercial airliners have them) paired with a transmission system that cannot be turned off. The liklihood and/or swiftness of these requirements will depend on where we find the plane.

It may not be possible to get 100% coverage, but a bursty data pulse every minute or so could close the gap considerably.

*By "every flight," I mean every flight that may go over water. The requirement would probably be dropped for planes passing over land stations since you can handoff from tower to tower, and no one wants to add weight to the aircraft.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:00 pm

cphite wrote:One theory that has been floating around the military is that this was a rehearsal of sorts - basically a way of determining if they could in fact evade radar for an extended amount of time and over a wide area. You can imagine the damage someone could do if they managed to sneak a 777 or something similar into the airspace of a large city, or even into a large airport.

This is one of the more reasonable ones I've heard. Most terrorism-related scenarios border on fantasy when one considers that the Boeing 777 is one of the biggest and most unwieldy civilian airliners in service.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:14 pm

notfred,
I researched Hypoxia and I am wrong, I got it mixed up with the effects of Hypoxia in a sealed environment "submarine, space suit, air tight room etc." when the carbon dioxide level rises and your Hypercapnic Alarm Response system built into your brain causing you to gasp for air and struggle/panic for air. "yes I had to look it up" Sleep Apnea is a good example of your Hypercapnic Alarm Response system rousing you awak for air. But surprisingly it is not the lack of oxygen that wakes you up, it is the increase of carbon dioxide in your system that wakes you up.

But in a depressurize plane there is no Hypercapnic Alarm Response since there is not a buildup of CO2 in a depressurized plane at altitude. So If the passengers were aware of the hi-jacking, there panicked states would make the lack of oxygen and carbon dioxide would quickly put them into a alcohol like drunken stupor quickly followed by unconsciousness then death quickly follows.

notfred thanks for the heads up....I like learning interesting facts.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:19 pm

steelcity_ballin wrote:
vargis14 wrote:I think those poor passengers and most if not all of the crew were killed when the plane went to 45,000 ft. The pilot/hijacker could then do a controlled depressurization of the passenger cabin killing the passengers in a short time. Even if those cheesy O2 masks dropped from the overhead compartments I believe they only last around 15 min. I found this on another passenger plane's passenger O2 supply.

How long do the passenger self-contained chemical oxygen generators last? Each chemical oxygen generator provides approximately a 15 minute supply of pure oxygen under pressure.

Horrible way to go,I bet at 45K that 15 min is cut in half along with panicked people it probably took 5 minutes.

I truly hope it did crash, but it is looking unlikely more and more.


From what I've read, if you have to go on a plane, depressurization isn't so bad. You supposedly lose consciousness very quickly and just never wake up. I was told you would feel loopy, then sleepy, then you're gone. What it actually looks or feels like to someone who's conscious somehow, no idea.


Go look up "The Aviators" season 3, episode 6. They go through the impact of early hypoxia on a pilot. At 45k feet, the lack of pressure and extreme cold would be more problematic in the very short term. If the cabin were exposed to external air, you would start to freeze (literally) before the oxygen generators ran out.

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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:26 pm

NovusBogus wrote:
cphite wrote:One theory that has been floating around the military is that this was a rehearsal of sorts - basically a way of determining if they could in fact evade radar for an extended amount of time and over a wide area. You can imagine the damage someone could do if they managed to sneak a 777 or something similar into the airspace of a large city, or even into a large airport.

This is one of the more reasonable ones I've heard. Most terrorism-related scenarios border on fantasy when one considers that the Boeing 777 is one of the biggest and most unwieldy civilian airliners in service.


Plus, if it works, now you have a ghost 777 you can re-paint in any airline's livery. Use the same tactics you did before and you have a ghost plane you can do with as you like. Nobody to report a hijacking or anything else out of the ordinary until it is way too late. It would also line up with why no one has claimed responsibility. If the goal was to determine it was possible and/or to end up with a ghost plane, then claiming responsibility would ruin the whole thing.

I do find the whole mystery quite interesting, from a mystery point a view. I predict many movies to come...

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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:35 pm

Check this out, guys. I haven't read it yet as of posting it here.

http://www.mamamia.com.au/news/malaysia ... -theories/
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:06 am

It just boggles my mind that it's somehow possible to disable the GPS locator on a commercial airliner.
The pilot (or hijacker) should never have been able to do that. I understand we'd never want to get tracked in our own cars, but an airliner is hardly private transport.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:40 am

jihadjoe wrote:It just boggles my mind that it's somehow possible to disable the GPS locator on a commercial airliner.

Flight safety. Say the device short-circuits and starts sparking/smoking. Only way to fix that is to pull the breaker. It may sound odd, but every single device on an airplane needs an off switch just for this purpose.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:30 pm

There is no GPS locator on an airplane. GPS signals may be received on modern aircraft and fed in to the navigation platform, there are also other sources of navigation data including radio beacons and inertial references. This is how the plane knows where it is.

There are other systems that give the aircraft's position to the outside. The main one is the transponder, this is used by the ATC radar and also for TCAS. There's also ACARS that primarily gives maintenance messages back to base but also gives position as well. There's also an engine reporting system that reports back the engine parameters to Rolls Royce and may include position as well.

From what I've heard, the engine monitoring system was off for the flight anyway. The transponder went off shortly after the last radio message. ACARS transmitted it's last report 2 minutes before the last message, but today it has come out that ACARS may have had nothing further to report for the next 30 minutes anyway.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:33 pm

notfred wrote:From what I've heard, the engine monitoring system was off for the flight anyway. The transponder went off shortly after the last radio message. ACARS transmitted it's last report 2 minutes before the last message, but today it has come out that ACARS may have had nothing further to report for the next 30 minutes anyway.

ACARS is not a continually-transmitting system. The version in use on 370 was set to transmit every 30 minutes.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:35 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
jihadjoe wrote:It just boggles my mind that it's somehow possible to disable the GPS locator on a commercial airliner.

Flight safety. Say the device short-circuits and starts sparking/smoking. Only way to fix that is to pull the breaker. It may sound odd, but every single device on an airplane needs an off switch just for this purpose.

Well one would hope that the fuse/circuit breaker would blow/trip before you get sparks and/or smoke :lol:

I have no idea where the power distribution for a 777 would be or how much you need to know in order to access it, but once you find it, it should be fairly easy to remove circuit breakers for field repairs. I design wire harnesses for heavy commercial vehicles, and we put most device fusing in one place for this reason. There are some other fuses/circuit breakers in other locations--like ABS or engine controllers--and these cannot be accessed while the vehicle is in motion because they are considered critical.

While important, navigation is not a critical function involved with actually flying the plane, so accessing is going to be easier, and you might even have the option of removing the system completely while in the air if needed.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:45 pm

Since there's no flight engineer (or station) on a 777, my guess is that all of the breakers are on the overhead behind the pilots.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:16 pm

Captain Ned wrote:Since there's no flight engineer (or station) on a 777, my guess is that all of the breakers are on the overhead behind the pilots.


Image

Image

Transponder is easy to turn off.

Image

ACARS is accessed on one of the MFDs.

Image

Looks like it's pretty easy to disable ACARS downlink messages: http://www.theairlinepilots.com/forum/v ... 273f357ebc

Something people need to remember is that airplanes are designed to make it as easy on the flight crew to handle unexpected situations in-flight. Powering down, reseting, restarting, are all things that are expected to be done (though hopefully not needed). Making it hard or impossible to change settings or access equipment is counter to the design and use philosophy.

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*edit* Apparently not everyone getting the expected images when following the links so I put them over in my photobucket.
Last edited by SecretSquirrel on Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:16 pm

Need to fix the hotlinks as 777project.com isn't happy. In fact, there may be some trained assistants about.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Not sure if you guys caught CNN tonight but one segment I found hilarious. Some "expert" in a flight sim turned around and not looking at what is happening in the sim. He goes on how hard it would be to fly through the mountains, almost impossible at low altitude, meanwhile the guy who is at the controls of the flight sim is weaving in and out around a mountain valley at 350 ft above ground level looking like a top gun fighter pilot with little effort.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:06 am

Possible bad news for the conspiracy theorists: an experienced pilot decided to try out Occam's Razor and came up with this theory at Wired Magazine, suggesting that the cause was simply a landing gear fire mistaken for an electrical fire, or else an actual electrical fire, and that everything following is consistent with an emergency landing attempt that was derailed when the flight crew was overcome with toxic smoke.
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Re: Flight 370

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:21 am

ludi wrote:Possible bad news for the conspiracy theorists: an experienced pilot decided to try out Occam's Razor and came up with this theory at Wired Magazine, suggesting that the cause was simply a landing gear fire mistaken for an electrical fire, or else an actual electrical fire, and that everything following is consistent with an emergency landing attempt that was derailed when the flight crew was overcome with toxic smoke.
After reading that article, I would be surprised if it happened any other way.
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