Mouse issues, high LOD

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Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:00 am

Hello fellow TR forum members,

For a while now i have been dissapointed with every new mouse i bought. The main source of my dissapointed hasn't been dued to tracking issues, ergonimics (or lack or thereof), buttons malfunctioning or other stuff, rather it was dued to the high lift off distance (LOD for short) which makes them track (i.e. move the cursor) even when i lift the mouse slightly in order to reposition it.

Initially my first optic mouse (a generic A4Tech) did not have this issue (i didn't even know the issue even existed) and i used that mouse for like 4 years but every mouse i bought after that has had high LOD. The last few were: an entry level optic mouse from Logitech, a laser mouse from Gigabyte GM-M6880 and finally this week a Microsoft Comfort 6000.

I'm seriously pissed off and i can't realize why companies don't pay more attention to this issue. I'd gladly give up the multiple GHz CPI sensors for a mouse that has the right LOD

Edit: Besides my rant i suppose that i'm actually looking for a solution (though highly unlikely to fix my existing mice) or for an alternative (i.e. a good mid range mouse that is known not to have issues with the LOD).
Last edited by Arclight on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:04 am

I hear you; Nobody makes the perfect mouse. You just have to try a bunch and use the one that annoys you least.

If money was no object, and I designed and manufactured my perfect mouse, I imagine it wouldn't be that popular would, uh - SELL LIKE HOTCAKES AND MAKE EVERYONE INVOLVED VERY RICH.

  • Wired, four-button mouse (Left, right, scrollwheel, thumb)
  • Scrollwheel with notches. Nothing fancy like sideways or freewheel scrolling. Just a wheel that you can scroll up or down with, and feel how many 'clicks' you've scrolled.
  • Flat sides with a sensible, non-slip texture. (claw grip mouse user here)
  • Decent sensor with high tracking speed and low LOD, and it doesn't have to be laser because I was happy with the original logitech MX sensors from a decade ago
  • A basic driver that lets you set up four the buttons as mouse1, mouse2, mouse3 and mouse4 if so desired.

Really, is that so hard?

(not-so-subtly edited in case a manufacturer stumbles upon this thread.)
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:58 am

Chrispy_ wrote:I hear you; Nobody makes the perfect mouse. You just have to try a bunch and use the one that annoys you least.

If money was no object, and I designed and manufactured my perfect mouse, I imagine it wouldn't be that popular would, uh - SELL LIKE HOTCAKES AND MAKE EVERYONE INVOLVED VERY RICH.

  • Wired, four-button mouse (Left, right, scrollwheel, thumb)
  • Scrollwheel with notches. Nothing fancy like sideways or freewheel scrolling. Just a wheel that you can scroll up or down with, and feel how many 'clicks' you've scrolled.
  • Flat sides with a sensible, non-slip texture. (claw grip mouse user here)
  • Decent sensor with high tracking speed and low LOD, and it doesn't have to be laser because I was happy with the original logitech MX sensors from a decade ago
  • A basic driver that lets you set up four the buttons as mouse1, mouse2, mouse3 and mouse4 if so desired.

Really, is that so hard?

(not-so-subtly edited in case a manufacturer stumbles upon this thread.)



Let's get a kickstater going cause that's how ridiculous the thing got. I mean how hard could it be to fulfill just the few bulltpoints you mentioned? I'd be happy with 2 out of your 4: low LOD and decent (but nothing fancy) realiable scroll wheel.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:06 am

As far as I'm concerned, the mx500 was the perfect mouse. Good weight, size, shape, excellent build quality (mine still works), great button placement, never skips, fair price...

too bad all the new ones logitech makes are ridiculous.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:21 am

I've never really noticed the LOD issue before, but I can see how it could be annoying if you're accustomed to a lower LOD (or mechanical mouse). I suspect there's a tradeoff between LOD and ability to track on the widest variety of surfaces; I also would not be surprised if LOD for a given mouse varies slightly depending on the tracking surface.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:34 am

Methinks LOD (as defined in this post; it has other defintions) is meaningless to anyone not a twitch MMO gamer. All of my mice are MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0s, mainly because they fit my hand. Their LOD is zero. I don't play MMO games, so I don't need the twitch.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:43 am

Captain Ned wrote:Methinks LOD (as defined in this post; it has other defintions) is meaningless to anyone not a twitch MMO gamer. All of my mice are MS Intellimouse Explorer 3.0s, mainly because they fit my hand. Their LOD is zero. I don't play MMO games, so I don't need the twitch.


I think high lift off distance is most disturbing for fps games, if i played rts or other kind of games i suppose i wouldn't be that annoyed......IE 3.0 you say? I might give it a try when i'll replace my current mouse.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:54 am

I'm still using my old original DeathAdder (I hear the new ones are actually inferior WTF Razer). It seems to me that Razer's mouse technology has actually gotten worse in the subsequent years with the LOD problems you're having and the stories about Synapse for the latest drivers.

My mouse is still going strong but anyone have a favorite mice that can be gotten new?


Incidentally, my non-gaming work mouse, a MS Wireless Mobile Mouse 4000 has a LOD of about 1.5mm =o
Last edited by ChronoReverse on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:54 am

Arclight wrote:Hello fellow TR forum members,

For a while now i have been dissapointed with every new mouse i bought. The main source of my dissapointed hasn't been dued to tracking issues, ergonimics (or lack or thereof), buttons malfunctioning or other stuff, rather it was dued to the high lift off distance (LOD for short) which makes them track (i.e. move the cursor) even when i lift the mouse slightly in order to reposition it.


I've gotten used to tilting the mouse slightly and then lifting it, which minimizes the cursor movement. It takes some practice, but once you get it down it makes a difference.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:56 am

Arclight wrote:I think high lift off distance is most disturbing for fps games, if i played rts or other kind of games i suppose i wouldn't be that annoyed......IE 3.0 you say? I might give it a try when i'll replace my current mouse.

Better buy soon as it's no longer made.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:58 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Arclight wrote:I think high lift off distance is most disturbing for fps games, if i played rts or other kind of games i suppose i wouldn't be that annoyed......IE 3.0 you say? I might give it a try when i'll replace my current mouse.

Better buy soon as it's no longer made.


I'm throwing the white towel. :cry:
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:07 pm

Razer's Imperator mice were made with dual sensors specifically so you could calibrate the lift-off distance for various surfaces. I haven't actually used one.

Right now I'm using my old Razer Copperhead from about the time they first came out. The lift-off distance is terrible (rather high), but all of the other issues were sorted out years ago after a couple firmware updates. The thing is still running perfectly after I think 9 years. I've heard Razers new mice are far less reliable though, which is a shame.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:10 pm

Arclight wrote:I'm throwing the white towel. :cry:

Amazon still has a few.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:23 pm

You want a "zowie" ec1.
its a 1.5mm lift off, i use it for counter strike : GO.
tis good... its the closest mouse i found to the old IE intellimouse.

now i am wondering if on windows 7, with a I5 - 3570k and amd 7870, which are the best drivers, and are they any tweaks to optimize latency of system responsivness / fps, as i sometimes belive i get some minor micro stutter when moving (any) mouse in fire fights, but my fps seems to still be high.

i even turned core parking off (something i don't think my i5 even had haha).
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:28 pm

Cannonaire wrote:Razer's Imperator mice...
I haven't played with re-calibrating, but the Imperator is a good mouse, in my experience. I picked one up during an Amazon gold box deal for $47 a year ago and gave it to my brother as a gift. It's $60 today.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:31 am

I don't think I'll be ditching my Sidewinder X5 anytime soon...if ever.

I just use a Razer Sphex so I don't have to lift my mouse as much.

(ooo thread necro)
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:27 am

This is a old topic, but my Razer Taipa has a configurable lift off range in the control panel. I don't know how many other Razer mice have that option (my lachesis didn't). I haven't actually tried it though, but it's definitely there.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:37 am

My Razor Imperator has a LOD of barely over 1/8 of a inch "no adjustment that i can find in the configuration" and moves my mouse pointer in the 4 oclk direction every time. It moves a maximum of 1.5 inches on my 37inch screen at 3600dpi "that is the highest setting I use" and that movement gets smaller as my custom set 5 stages of sensitivity go down to 2300dpi, 1200dpi, all those stages X and Y axis's are the same. For a FPS shooter like metro 2033 that i am playing right now I use the 2 lowest settings of and use 800dpi for X axis and 600dpi for Y axis. My lowest settings are 600dpi for X axis and 400dpi for Y axis.

Thank goodness i can switch on the fly and i like being able to un link X and Y axis's. It keeps me from looking at the ground and ceiling too much :roll:
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:35 pm

Out of curiosity, why lift the mouse at all? I can do a 360-degree turn without picking up my mouse from the desk (albeit it has a fairly high-DPI sensor); why wouldn't you just buy a mouse with a high-DPI sensor?「(°ヘ°)
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:25 am

I noticed this when switching from mechanical to optical mice years ago. I got used to the higher lift-off distances and use a higher DPI to avoid having to do so in the first place. (I use 1800DPI, not even that high.)
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:41 am

auxy wrote:Out of curiosity, why lift the mouse at all? I can do a 360-degree turn without picking up my mouse from the desk (albeit it has a fairly high-DPI sensor); why wouldn't you just buy a mouse with a high-DPI sensor?「(°ヘ°)


Sorry to say but that's stupid. Not everyone can/want to play with high DPI even if the mouse is capable. Even if i did i'd still have to reposition it at some point while seeing my character's crosshair on the screen jump randomly up or down. It's the most annoying thing i have ever experienced while playing a first person shooter.
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:51 am

Arclight wrote:Sorry to say but that's stupid.
Rude! (¬д¬。)
Arclight wrote:Not everyone can/want to play with high DPI even if the mouse is capable. Even if i did i'd still have to reposition it at some point while seeing my character's crosshair on the screen jump randomly up or down. It's the most annoying thing i have ever experienced while playing a first person shooter.
Well, maybe you should upgrade your skills instead of buying rubbish mice. ┐(´∀`)┌ヤレヤレ
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:07 am

auxy wrote:
Arclight wrote:Sorry to say but that's stupid.
Rude! (¬д¬。)
Arclight wrote:Not everyone can/want to play with high DPI even if the mouse is capable. Even if i did i'd still have to reposition it at some point while seeing my character's crosshair on the screen jump randomly up or down. It's the most annoying thing i have ever experienced while playing a first person shooter.
Well, maybe you should upgrade your skills instead of buying rubbish mice. ┐(´∀`)┌ヤレヤレ


Maybe marketing has made many unaware of what rubbish actually is when it comes to mice. At work i have an HP optic mouse which on the back it says "Manufactured by Logitech Inc." and it has an LOD lower than a 1 CD. That's saying a lot about what "quality" mice are all about, esthetics and GIGAHURTZ CPI sensors.

I tried to find a mouse like this in stores but it seems it's only sold by HP together with their prebuilt machines. The search continues.....
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:50 am

Arclight wrote:Maybe marketing has made many unaware of what rubbish actually is when it comes to mice. At work i have an HP optic mouse which on the back it says "Manufactured by Logitech Inc." and it has an LOD lower than a 1 CD. That's saying a lot about what "quality" mice are all about, esthetics and GIGAHURTZ CPI sensors. I tried to find a mouse like this in stores but it seems it's only sold by HP together with their prebuilt machines. The search continues.....
I don't really know what to tell you, honestly! ┐(‘~`;)┌ This is kind of like that guy who comes into my IRC channel all the time looking for new ways to stop EM radiation from entering his house. You're talking about a problem that I don't really see anyone else having and that I personally don't even understand. I can imagine what the problem is, based on what you've said, but I can't really reproduce it; not in normal use (i.e. not without purposefully holding the mouse a hair's breadth off the surface and moving it around).

My mouse (Corsair Vengeance M90) stops registering practically immediately; that is, the moment I remove it from the surface. So does the crappy MS Bluetrack mouse on my secondary PC. So does the truly ancient Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 my girlfriend uses. So does my old Razer Naga, which I fished out of a cardboard box just so I could try it for the purposes of this post, although it has the irritating Razer bounce when you set it back down. So does my friend Emily's Logitech MX Revolution.

So what are you really even talking about? (ノ ̄д ̄)ノ
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Re: Mouse issues, high LOD

Postposted on Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:01 am

auxy wrote:So what are you really even talking about? (ノ ̄д ̄)ノ


This is what i'm talking about

It's nice that you didn't have this issue (most people don't), but i have had it for all the mice i bought for more than half a decade. I'm not saying i can't use them, the last one i bought it's actually pretty nice, i just can't perform to the best of my abilities in competitive FPS games like Counter Strike. Recent games though are much easier to play since they copy the consoles and don't require you to have that good of an aim. Most encourage ADS fire as hipfiring is terribly innacurate (just look at Crysis 3 multiplayer).
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