I guess a few things need to be said...

How we justify all that high-dollar hardware.

Moderator: Hoser

I guess a few things need to be said...

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 3:48 pm

Well, with finals over I can finally pay closer attention to this forum and I guess it needs it. I've always felt that a "hands-off" approach was the best method but I guess I need to modify that a bit. But I'm not going to post a big list of rules that you all need to follow. I'm only going to post this one:

1.) Any post that gives help/links/suggestions/whatever for working around CD-Keys or other forms of copy protection will be deleted.

This has never been, nor ever will be the place for such discussion. There are plenty of other places for such things and I'm sure you are all resourceful enough to find them and even more importantly, keep them to yourselves.

I hate to come down so hard on this but I'm just looking out for the site as a whole. I love TR and I would hate to see lawsuits filed or anything else bad happen to the site.

Thanks for your understanding. -Kevin
Last edited by Kevin on Sat Sep 27, 2003 8:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 4:18 pm

Appropriate.
GO CARDINALS!
Rakhmaninov3
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 4:49 pm

Rakhmaninov3 wrote:Appropriate.

Exactly.

We need to keep a high standard here at TR.
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 5:18 pm

well how am i supposed to find out how to run all my pirated games now??

Image
sativa
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 5:21 pm

sativa wrote:well how am i supposed to find out how to run all my pirated games now??

Image


Buy them or play the demos. :roll:
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 5:23 pm

GokuSS2 wrote:
sativa wrote:well how am i supposed to find out how to run all my pirated games now??

Image


Buy them or play the demos. :roll:

I didn't think the [/sarcasm] tag would be necessary but i apparently i was wrong lol.

btw i found a sweet crack search engine here.
Last edited by sativa on Fri May 16, 2003 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sativa
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 5:27 pm

sativa wrote:
GokuSS2 wrote:
sativa wrote:well how am i supposed to find out how to run all my pirated games now??

Image


Buy them or play the demos. :roll:

I didn't think the [/sarcasm] tag would be necessary but i apparently i was wrong lol.

btw i found a sweet crack search engine here. i hope linking to google doesn't get my post deleted :wink:


You'd be suprised. :lol:
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Re: I guess a few things need to be said...

Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 6:39 pm

Kevin wrote:1.) Any post that gives help/links/suggestions/whatever for working around CD-Keys or other forms of copy protection will be deleted.

I hate to come down so hard on this but I'm just looking out for the site as a whole. I love TR and I would hate to see lawsuits filed or anything else bad happen to the site.


Fairly stated Kevin, and I fully support your statement though I will play devil's advocate for just a moment.

I legitimately buy all my games (which is only 3-5 per year) and I run CD cracks on each and every one of them so I dont have to track down those damnable CDs every time I want to play for 10 minutes. Y'know, 'fair use' and all that and I lose no sleep over it.

I find it interesting how TR features front page stories about the legal aspects of file-sharing music (and could be logically extended to any digital content, including games) and that support of the editors and readers greatly falls on the side of the consumer. After all, if I purchased a game/album/DVD, then arent I entitled to make backups of it, remove the CD-check etc, all under the name of 'fair use'?

Just because something can be used illegally doesnt mean it is always used such (a common argument from Kazaa/Grokster/Napster camps). Would not the same apply here? I find it peculiar that I could probably get tons of forum help troubleshooting Grokster, but a kick in the ass for talking methodology about copying Raven Shield... (both activities are still legal AFAIK)

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are any number of legitimate uses for things like removing CD checks and work-arounds for Super-SafediscROM+ to backup your $60 game. I also agree that openly discussing them can expose TR to some gnarly problems, and its up to the TR moderators/editors to decide what will be considered taboo on this site.

Granted, the recent thread with the clueless reader trying to get a valid CDkey for UT2K3 clearly crossed the line (since he basically admitted he didnt buy the game) so he fully deserves a smacking/suspension/whatever.

But what if you bought a game whose CDkey was guessed by a keygen and subsequently released onto the net and banned? You'll receive no help from the publisher, who assumes you leaked your own key. (Highly unlikely scenario, but just to illustrate a point). Are you going to drop another $60 to buy another copy? Or are you within your rights to investigate 'alternative' solutions??

Oh one anecdote. I recently bought the PC version Grandia II in the bargain bin. It leaves a large amount of content on the play disc, so my 48XCD spins up and down every time you enter a town/shop/battle/cutscene. It's probably a result of the games console origins but it's infuriating and annoying. Using two popular utilities, I extracted the CD to the HD and run a Safedisc emulator and now the game runs fast and smooth, as a PC game is supposed to run. It's examples like this why I would like to see a *little* leniency regarding this topic in the forums...

/just my $.02 and hoping I dont get banned ;)
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 6:48 pm

Savita: I'm watching you. That google site is a hotbed of piracy and communism. ;)

meanfried: I totally understand where you are coming from and have used such things in the past many times. It's a very fine line and I'm not too sure where I should draw it so I thought it would be best to play things safe and be a bit more strict then is probably necessary.
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 7:10 pm

What in the world is this place coming to...sheeesh...pirates...trolls...whew...Lickety pauses as he steps back....hmmmm :wink:
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 7:12 pm

Bring the smack down Kevin!!!!

I am fine with your stance. This is a tech site not a hacker/cracker site. Yes I will admit to using CD keys for games, but I use them to try a game out. If I like it I'll buy it. This is especially the case for online games. I'd hate to get kicked off for having an invalid key if I really like the game.
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 8:52 pm

I think the point is, hack/crack all the games, software, whatever you want, just leave it at the door when you come in to the TR, keep it clean.

The TR has a great reputation, lets keep it that way.
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 9:14 pm

No more "crack" sites from me :D .
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Postposted on Fri May 16, 2003 9:44 pm

Well said, Kevin.
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Postposted on Sat May 17, 2003 2:50 am

Kevin, thanks for the post. While I won't get into the morality of the issue, I do believe that this forum is provided for us when it doesn't have to be, and as such, we should respect the wishes of those that run it.
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Postposted on Sat May 17, 2003 6:50 am

man, im really sorry... :oops: :oops: :oops:

i wont do that again...
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Postposted on Sat May 17, 2003 6:54 am

great idea, crazybus, shrinking the signature!
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 12:04 am

Speaking of cracks, did you hear that Oprah Winfrey got arrested at LA Airport? She was caught smuggling 20 pound of crack.
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 4:00 am

Uhm....I dont think that this was the orginal intent of this post?
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 4:09 am

Well said, even though I have to admit using cracks, TR must stay clean.

On a side note, google.com is your friend :wink: .

Just do not fold for them. Dedictate these cycles to TR. We are in need. 8)
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 12:38 pm

damn i have another cd key thing... dont worry ill go to some other forum...
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Re: I guess a few things need to be said...

Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 2:43 pm

meanfriend wrote:Oh one anecdote. I recently bought the PC version Grandia II in the bargain bin. It leaves a large amount of content on the play disc, so my 48XCD spins up and down every time you enter a town/shop/battle/cutscene. It's probably a result of the games console origins but it's infuriating and annoying. Using two popular utilities, I extracted the CD to the HD and run a Safedisc emulator and now the game runs fast and smooth, as a PC game is supposed to run. It's examples like this why I would like to see a *little* leniency regarding this topic in the forums...


A nice program that I've found is called GameDrive. Virtual CD drives basically using an ISO of your CD, really saves the CD hunting.

http://www.farstone.com/home/en/shtml/gamedovview.shtml
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 2:57 pm

I try not to smoke to much crack :oops: , what where we talking about here?
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 3:54 pm

ANApex - CloneCD does the same thing, and it's generally much more proficient. I would imagine discussing CloneCD and it's virtual drives would be just this side of the fine line, since you need the original to make the image, but it's right *at* the line.

Kevin - What would you say, oh administrative one? It's your line to draw.

Getting the line drawn very specifically and revising/updating it as necessary (as a sticky) would be a very good idea, IMO, since that removes any thoughts of favoritism/vendetta and gives a proper line to walk, for those of us concerned about grey legality.
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 4:00 pm

I use Virtual CloneDrive all the time. It's nice because you don't have to be smoking crack to use it :wink:
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 4:58 pm

yep i use virtual drives too. very convenient.
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 5:05 pm

Hey APWNH-

I'm just curious as to what % of your software is actually purchased?
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 5:09 pm

would it be against the rules to recommend the Notorious B.I.G.'s "10 crack commandments" or Masta P's "Make Crack Like This" ?

masta p's song is hilarious
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 5:50 pm

red0510 wrote:Hey APWNH-

I'm just curious as to what % of your software is actually purchased?


lol how did we end up with this topic again...?

well to be honest, about 30% or so. You see it's not that i think it's ok, but my parents don't like me spending any money on anything that has to do with games. I am faced with the problem of choosing to get stuff for free (with a bit of guilt) or to choose to not be able to get anything in any other way. Since my life is (currently) centered around gaming it is somewhat better to have games illegally than to not be able to have them at all. Being the only thing that interests me greatly (i do admit i am obsessed), I need lots of it to keep me from having an unenjoyable life.

I think a substantial percentage of piracy is handled by teenagers, and whats ironic is that those are the kids whose parents are trying to make them be good people!

im not sure if im explaining this right...


just dont get me wrong, believe me when i grow up no matter how little money i make i will get all my software and other copyable material legally.
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Postposted on Tue May 20, 2003 5:56 pm

Forge: Yeah, virtual drives are right on that fine line. It's just like using CD cracks for games you own. Perfectly fine in my opinion, but no way to tell if someone really owns the game. And even worse, you really don't need the original CD, you could just download the .bin or CloneCD images.

So I think I'm going to have to push those past the line as well. I hate to do it but I think it's the best long term solution. Again, there are tons of good forums out there that talk about virtual drives so it isn't like such information will be hard to find.

Sometime this week I'll post a new anouncement that lists out this whole policy a bit better.
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