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I still enjoy re-playing the old Tomb Raider games (just completed 4 again - The Last Revelation), but I can't stand the ones that Crystal Dynamics made (Legend and later), mainly because of the control system, though the irritating voice comments in Legend detract from the game play as well.

I could do with a decent alternative (3D puzzle/action/adventure game) Preferably one that isn't a console-to-PC port with little thought for the control system.

MDK2. Man that was a great game. As far as I can tell it was only on PC and Dreamcast. Made by Bioware.

Also, check out Alice. That one still gets Geoff all hot and bothered, based on how much he's written about it.

The closest one that comes to mind (that makes ME all hot and bothered) is Max Payne 1 & 2. MDK 1 & 2 were great games, as was Alice. Another really good game of the genre that comes to mind is Psychonauts (one of my favorites).

And if you don't mind going the console route, Uncharted 1 & 2 are Tomb Raider perfected (especially 2).

bdwilcox wrote:

And if you don't mind going the console route, Uncharted 1 & 2 are Tomb Raider perfected (especially 2).

Ditto.

Dizik wrote:

bdwilcox wrote:

And if you don't mind going the console route, Uncharted 1 & 2 are Tomb Raider perfected (especially 2).

Ditto.

As a primarily PC gamer, I unashamedly admit that I would buy a PS3 just to play the Uncharted series, they're that good. (the Ratchet and Clanks were good, too.)

bdwilcox wrote:

Dizik wrote:

bdwilcox wrote:

And if you don't mind going the console route, Uncharted 1 & 2 are Tomb Raider perfected (especially 2).

Ditto.

As a primarily PC gamer, I unashamedly admit that I would buy a PS3 just to play the Uncharted series, they're that good. (the Ratchet and Clanks were good, too.)

As a Tomb Raider fan I cannot recommend Uncharted to you at all. Uncharted only has very little and simplistic climbing and slightly better gunplay. There is no puzzle solving whatsoever. Uncharted 2 had maybe 3 puzzles the entire game and they literally give you the answers to all the pluzzles. I was very underwhelmed. Graphics and story are top notch, but the gameplay is severely lacking, especially in the first. In the first the gunplay is so bad, yet so abundant that I was wondering how this game got such high marks.

Let me break down Tomb Raider and Uncharted in 3 different categories and put a percentage on it so you can see what the games consist of.

Tomb Raider:

Climbing: 40%
Shooting: 20%
Puzzle Solving: 40%

Uncharted:

Climbing: 20%
Shooting: 70%
Puzzle Solving: 10%

If that's ok with you. Dig in. It definitely bored me. The gunplay is not good enough for more than half of the game to be based on it.

derFunkenstein wrote:

MDK2. Man that was a great game. As far as I can tell it was only on PC and Dreamcast. Made by Bioware.

Also, check out Alice. That one still gets Geoff all hot and bothered, based on how much he's written about it.

MDK2 - at first I thought you were being unhelpful by not referring to it by its full name, then I found out that's what the official name was Any idea about Windows 7 (64) compatibility? Alice looks as if it is W7 compatible because of the Q3 engine.

Are the Max Payne games puzzle-solving, action-adventure types?

In all honesty you might want to try Assassin's Creed II or Brotherhood. They have plenty of climbing, adventuring, and even puzzle solving/tomb raider like monkeying around from pillar to pillar.

The Max Payne games are 3rd person action, shooting games set in a Film Noir universe with good voice acting, good graphics, an intriguing storyline, a fleshed out plot and great combat action.

You can get a demo to see if you like it here and here.

BehemothJackal wrote:

In all honesty you might want to try Assassin's Creed II or Brotherhood. They have plenty of climbing, adventuring, and even puzzle solving/tomb raider like monkeying around from pillar to pillar.

And you thought Uncharted was boring? BTW, if you're going to try Assassin's Creed 2, I hope you like a big fat helping of intrusive DRM with your gameplay (You need a constant online connection. If your connection drops, the game kicks you out, even in single player.)

Speaking of DRM, I tried a demo of Tomb Raider: Underworld recently. It wouldn't start until I had closed Process Explorer (which I run all the time for system monitoring, as a replacement for Task Manager).

American McGee's Alice
Max Payne 1 & 2
Beyond Good and Evil
Just Cause 2

bdwilcox wrote:

BehemothJackal wrote:

In all honesty you might want to try Assassin's Creed II or Brotherhood. They have plenty of climbing, adventuring, and even puzzle solving/tomb raider like monkeying around from pillar to pillar.

And you thought Uncharted was boring? BTW, if you're going to try Assassin's Creed 2, I hope you like a big fat helping of intrusive DRM with your gameplay (You need a constant online connection. If your connection drops, the game kicks you out, even in single player.)

not anymore.

Deus Ex (first one), even the original Half Life.

sweatshopking wrote:

not anymore.

How's that? They just patched it so that after your connection drops and it kicks you out, when you finally reconnect you start where you stopped rather than at your last save point. That's still BS. Unless you mean, "YAAARRRRRR!!!"

The DRM scheme was dropped from Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood but not Assassin's Creed 2, unless I totally missed a policy change from Ubisoft.

Thief 1/2
Darksiders
Riddick
Die by the Sword
Alice
Beyond Good and Evil
Oni
Kings Quest Mask of Eternity
Rune
Blade of Darkness
Prince of Persia Series
Heretic 2
Jedi Knight Dark Forces II
Ds9 The Fallen
I'm sure there's more, but this list should keep you busy.

bdwilcox wrote:

sweatshopking wrote:

not anymore.

How's that? They just patched it so that after your connection drops and it kicks you out, when you finally reconnect you start where you stopped rather than at your last save point. That's still BS. Unless you mean, "YAAARRRRRR!!!"

The DRM scheme was dropped from Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood but not Assassin's Creed 2, unless I totally missed a policy change from Ubisoft.

They patched the game so it only needs a internet connection at startup, but it won't kick you out while playing if the connection drops.

BehemothJackal wrote:

bdwilcox wrote:

sweatshopking wrote:

not anymore.

How's that? They just patched it so that after your connection drops and it kicks you out, when you finally reconnect you start where you stopped rather than at your last save point. That's still BS. Unless you mean, "YAAARRRRRR!!!"

The DRM scheme was dropped from Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood but not Assassin's Creed 2, unless I totally missed a policy change from Ubisoft.

They patched the game so it only needs a internet connection at startup, but it won't kick you out while playing if the connection drops.

I thought that's what they did too. you might be right Bd, i've been wrong once before. but it REALLY looked like she was asking for it.

BehemothJackal wrote:

They patched the game so it only needs a internet connection at startup, but it won't kick you out while playing if the connection drops.

I think you're thinking of Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood; Brotherhood only needs a connection at game start. But I believe Assassin's Creed 2 for the PC still needs a constant connection and will bounce you if it drops. Before the patch, it would send you back to your last save, but after the latest patch the game saves before bouncing you and starts at that place when the internet connection is re-established. I can't test it because I refused to buy the game with their BS DRM, so if anyone has Assassin's Creed 2 for the PC with the latest patch, could you try pulling the plug on your internet to see if the game still kicks you out.

If people really care about drm forcing you to be online, I don't see why more people aren't against steam. Anyone with a intermittent wireless Internet connection knows that "offline" mode doesn't always work, and I've seen Starcraft 2 perform the same way. I'm consistently against any and all drm that forces an internet connection, how about you?
Either way, the Assassin's Creed series isn't that great, and it's a console port, so I haven't purchased the second. I only purchased the first because of a sale. I don't support garbage.

I'm not bothered by Steam or StarCraft 2's DRM / copy protection, because neither has done anything negative for my gaming experience. SC2 occasionally has server problems during multiplayer, but that's about it. Steam IIRC hasn't caused any problems for me.

"Warhammer: Dawn of War" on the other hand, started getting arsey about the legitimate, original, unscratched game disc I've got, and started throwing a fit if I started up something like sysinternal's file monitor to try and investigate the problem. Eventually a patch was released that doesn't require the CD any more, and I haven't had a problem since then. I think DoW also gave a problem because I had reinstalled it too many times as well (also resolved by the final patch).

Tomb Raider Underworld (the demo - !!!) requiring me to close Process Explorer is just irritating. I probably could get around it by renaming the procexp exe if I really wanted to, or use some other utility instead, but why should I have to.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:

Thief 1/2.

Seconded. The Thief series is great.

Here's a vote for Batman: Arkham Asylum. It was good.

I liked it.

Fighthouse wrote:

Here's a vote for Batman: Arkham Asylum. It was good.

I liked it.

Ditto. But Arkham Asylum is one of the few cross platform games that I would actually recommend on the console over the PC because of the control scheme. The game just feels like it was made for a console controller.

Usacomp2k3 wrote:

l33t-g4m3r wrote:

Thief 1/2.

Seconded. The Thief series is great.

The Thief series is oooooooold. Old and crusty.

mikeymike wrote:

MDK2 - at first I thought you were being unhelpful by not referring to it by its full name, then I found out that's what the official name was Any idea about Windows 7 (64) compatibility? Alice looks as if it is W7 compatible because of the Q3 engine.

MDK2 is available on Good Old Games: http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/mdk_2 No problem with Win7/Vista that way.

As for Max Payne, it's not a puzzle solver at all. It's a straight-up 3rd-person shooter - one of the greatest examples of such a game ever. It's got problems with Win7/Vista, though, even the Steam version. The community has made a fix. http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=35504

I know from experience that Alice runs fine in Win7.

Can't believe I didn't recommend Batman:AA. That was a great, great game. Some stealth, some action, some puzzles, alot of content and alot of Batman lore to find. I have it from the Windows Live Marketplace and it plays great with a 360 controller.

bdwilcox wrote:

BehemothJackal wrote:

They patched the game so it only needs a internet connection at startup, but it won't kick you out while playing if the connection drops.

I think you're thinking of Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood; Brotherhood only needs a connection at game start. But I believe Assassin's Creed 2 for the PC still needs a constant connection and will bounce you if it drops. Before the patch, it would send you back to your last save, but after the latest patch the game saves before bouncing you and starts at that place when the internet connection is re-established. I can't test it because I refused to buy the game with their BS DRM, so if anyone has Assassin's Creed 2 for the PC with the latest patch, could you try pulling the plug on your internet to see if the game still kicks you out.

Nope I'm not. I have Brotherhood and it doesn't require a connection at any time except during the install. You don't need to be online to play the game at all.

bdwilcox wrote:

Usacomp2k3 wrote:

l33t-g4m3r wrote:

Thief 1/2.

Seconded. The Thief series is great.

The Thief series is oooooooold. Old and crusty.

No it's not. It's a timeless classic and there are graphics mods and also: Thief - Deadly Shadows.