Xbox One revealed

How we justify all that high-dollar hardware.

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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 10:13 am

I think it's all summed up like this:
Code: Select all
Playstation 4:   We want to be facebook.
Xbox One:        We want to be television.
PC:              We like who we are.  (without metro crap)   
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 12:36 pm

Savyg wrote:Considering they are providing 300,000 cloud processing servers, and even with dx11 and proper 64 bit ports PCs have much weaker draw calls than consoles, no, it isn't ignorant at all.

You don't really think any of that matters, do you? You just can't make up for the fact that I have 2.5x the raw compute and 1.7x the memory bandwidth of their graphics hardware, and quite a lot better single-threaded performance. (ヽ'ω`)HONKHONK

No, sorry; if you actually knew what the actual disadvantage of Direct3D's overhead was -- and as the article you quoted even says, it's actually not even that much if the developer properly utilizes DirectX 11; and the limit is really the CPU anyway -- you wouldn't be spouting this garbage. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Nevermind that it's confirmed you won't be working on "bare metal" on Xbox One. Possibly on PS4. (╹◡╹)

The bottom line is that current PC hardware is already a step ahead of the consoles, and they're not even out yet. If you give them the maximum possible leeway on performance for being optimized for the task -- which they won't hit, because they've been optimized for other tasks, like social media and media consumption -- they might be competitive at launch ... but I doubt it. ('∀`) "Next-gen" is going to be 1080p30 all the way.

[edit] I didn't even address "cloud processing servers" because the idea that that's somehow an advantage is so unbelievably stupid it defies comprehension.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 12:42 pm

auxy wrote:No, sorry; if you actually knew what the actual disadvantage of Direct3D's overhead was -- and as the article you quoted even says, it's actually not even that much if the developer properly utilizes DirectX 11; and the limit is really the CPU anyway -- you wouldn't be spouting this garbage. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

As the article I quoted says, you *might* get 5-6000 out of the PC instead of 10-20000 on the old consoles. And that's assuming games even use DX11 in the first place, which the PC gaming market has been hellishly slow to adopt.

The old consoles are **** by now, but they had that going for them.

As to 'bare metal' it will have a custom renderer much closer to 'bare metal' than the PC will ever have.

As to cloud processing, I disagree with you but I can't argue the point until I actually have examples in the marketplace. Though Dragon's Dogma had a pretty cool system using the interwebs...still definately last gen.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 12:50 pm

Savyg wrote:As the article I quoted says, you *might* get 5-6000 out of the PC instead of 10-20000 on the old consoles. And that's assuming games even use DX11 in the first place, which the PC gaming market has been hellishly slow to adopt.
But you do realize that
  • all newer games coming out are DX11
  • that article is from 2011, and
  • geometry batch calls do not translate linearly to performance? ('∀`) They may not even have anything to do with it at all, depending on your game.
Savyg wrote:As to 'bare metal' it will have a custom renderer much closer to 'bare metal' than the PC will ever have.
The PC already has a "bare metal" renderer, if you want to go that route -- you can write very close to the metal using OpenGL. That's how RAGE runs better than, well, basically everything else. (60fps 1080p with 8k textures on Trinity? Come on. I ran it in 1080p with 4x MSAA at 60fps solid -- which means 60fps average -- on a single GTX460.)

Savyg wrote:As to cloud processing, I disagree with you but I can't argue the point until I actually have examples in the marketplace. Though Dragon's Dogma had a pretty cool system to go beyond the normal constraints of console games.
That's still not -- that has nothing to do with cloud processing! `,、('∀`) '`,、
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 1:02 pm

auxy wrote: But you do realize that
  • all newer games coming out are DX11
  • that article is from 2011, and
  • geometry batch calls do not translate linearly to performance? ('∀`) They may not even have anything to do with it at all, depending on your game.

The PC already has a "bare metal" renderer, if you want to go that route -- you can write very close to the metal using OpenGL. That's how RAGE runs better than, well, basically everything else. (60fps 1080p with 8k textures on Trinity? Come on. I ran it in 1080p with 4x MSAA at 60fps solid -- which means 60fps average -- on a single GTX460.)

That's still not -- that has nothing to do with cloud processing! `,、('∀`) '`,、

Oh really? Defiance, Borderlands 2, Fallen Enchantress and its' semisequel, anything from Valve, Simcity, Dead Space 3, Firefall, Dishonored, FF14...I could go on. DX9 titles are still everywhere. They are going away, but very slowly.

Much as I liked Rage it ran and occasionally looked like **** on my box, moreso once they added the detail textures patch to clean up the ugly.

Considering it used the cloud to keep the state of each of those characters synced among different clients and share those characters with other gamers, I disagree on that point.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 1:35 pm

Savyg wrote:Oh really? Defiance, Borderlands 2, Fallen Enchantress and its' semisequel, anything from Valve, Simcity, Dead Space 3, Firefall, Dishonored, FF14...I could go on. DX9 titles are still everywhere. They are going away, but very slowly.
Valve hasn't released anything in ages, Dead Space 3 is a straight console port (and was called so by the developer), Firefall and Defiance are MMOs (and thus should REALLY be using DX11, but, the point is that their development cycle is longer than a regular game), Borderlands 2 is practically a mod for the first game, and FF14 has a DX10 mode. So out of those, you've got ... Fallen Enchantress and arguably the MMOs. Isn't Fallen Enchantress an indie game?

Savyg wrote:Much as I liked Rage it ran and occasionally looked like **** on my box, moreso once they added the detail textures patch to clean up the ugly.
Radeon? Heh-heh. Also, there was no "detail textures patch". The first patch changed the way texture memory was allocated and tuned the real-time megatexture optimizer to more aggressively select higher-detail texture maps, but they didn't add detail textures or anything. On graphics cards with proper OpenGL drivers you could do this pre-patch yourself using a config file.

Savyg wrote:Considering it used the cloud to keep the state of each of those characters synced among different clients and share those characters with other gamers, I disagree on that point.
By that logic, every MMORPG is a "cloud" game. Is that what we're calling "cloud" now? I guess PC games have been "cloud" games a long time!
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 1:35 pm

Image

Getting back to XBox topic... First poll by potential customers doesn't look very favorable for it:
http://uk.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/

Of course MS will simply ignore such silly results and won't be making any significant changes to its various restrictions and requirements since they always know what's best for the customer better than the customer him/herself :wink:
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 1:48 pm

JohnC wrote:Of course MS will simply ignore such silly results and won't be making any significant changes to its various restrictions and requirements since they always know what's best for the customer better than the customer him/herself :wink:

Heh-heh-heh.

Well, that, and the MPAA is no doubt paying them a bucketload of cash.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 1:57 pm

auxy wrote:Valve hasn't released anything in ages, Dead Space 3 is a straight console port (and was called so by the developer), Firefall and Defiance are MMOs (and thus should REALLY be using DX11, but, the point is that their development cycle is longer than a regular game), Borderlands 2 is practically a mod for the first game, and FF14 has a DX10 mode. So out of those, you've got ... Fallen Enchantress and arguably the MMOs. Isn't Fallen Enchantress an indie game?

Radeon? Heh-heh. Also, there was no "detail textures patch". The first patch changed the way texture memory was allocated and tuned the real-time megatexture optimizer to more aggressively select higher-detail texture maps, but they didn't add detail textures or anything. On graphics cards with proper OpenGL drivers you could do this pre-patch yourself using a config file.

By that logic, every MMORPG is a "cloud" game. Is that what we're calling "cloud" now? I guess PC games have been "cloud" games a long time!

All of those are current and extremely relevant to this discussion. What do the reasons(/excuses) have to do with it? (I could add Hawken, MWO, and many others most likely.)

When did FF14 get DX10? I've seen nothing indicating such, anywhere. I do see it will probably get DX11, eventually. http://www.finalfantasy.net/xiv/letter- ... isode-iii/

OK texture detail. Whatever. http://store.steampowered.com/news/7265/

And yes, MMORPGs are cloud games. But they have to rely on their own servers, which makes them expensive to run and useless in most single player or non MMO multiplayer scenarios. Cloud assisted gaming (such as employed in Dragon's Dogma and Simcity) is far more relevant to what the X1 will be offering devs.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:07 pm

FFXIV is an old game (think 2005) already, people (same engine even after overhaul) - not sure why you're discussing it :wink: A more relevant example would be a "Camelot Unchained" game (no official name for it yet), which WILL use DX11 and its engine is already in an initial development stage...
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:22 pm

Savyg wrote:All of those are current and extremely relevant to this discussion. What do the reasons(/excuses) have to do with it? (I could add Hawken, MWO, and many others most likely.)
The point is, some of them are nothing that would get DX11, some of them are not very current, and some of them, well, are recent games that are on DX9 for a reason; in other words, all of your serious games (i.e. stuff that the developer isn't trying to run on Intel graphics) coming out right now are on DX11. Yeah, indie and casual titles that need as wide an audience as possible (and don't *need* DX11-class hardware power), MMOs that have been in development for years, and lazy console ports are still DX9, of course.

FF14 had a DX10 mode in the -beta- -- the original beta, not ARR -- which is the last time I played it. If it doesn't have DX10 mode now, well, I don't know anything about that. The launcher had options for "Launch DX9" and "Launch DX10", though. I only played it for three days then, since it was such a disappointment (coming from a 7.5yr FFXI player.) Besides, as I've already mentioned, it's an MMO; they have long, grueling development cycles, and as you yourself noted, they INTEND to add DX11, as they should. So I can't really count that as a point in favor of your argument.

As far as Hawken and MWO, well, A) neither of those is coming out "right now", and B) Hawken, at least, is moving to a DX11 renderer. And there's that sticky point about them being online games... hehe! But yeah, I know Hawken had a really short development cycle; staggeringly short for what it is (maybe that's why there's no content? hahaha), so we fall back to the OTHER reason they aren't on DX11, which is that their dev studio is like six people and run on a shoestring budget. DX11 takes more time and money to implement; they had a dearth of both. (Also, the cheap version of Unreal 3 doesn't include the DX11 renderer. Herp.)

So yes, the point, though weathered, still stands; serious games coming out now - and more importantly, going forward - are going to be on DX11, thus severely diminishing the limitations of DirectX as a graphics API.
Savyg wrote:And yes, MMORPGs are cloud games. But they have to rely on their own servers, which makes them expensive to run and useless in most single player or non MMO multiplayer scenarios. Cloud assisted gaming (such as employed in Dragon's Dogma and Simcity) is far more relevant to what the X1 will be offering devs.
HAHAHA! DID YOU JUST QUOTE SIMCITY 2013 AS A POSITIVE IN ANY ARGUMENT EVER? HAHAHAA!

No seriously, WHAT? So ... your argument is ... Microsoft is providing the servers for MMOs and MMO-alikes. How exactly is that a point in the favor of the console, again? Let's break it down:
  • Microsoft gets final say in what content goes into the game
  • Microsoft is in charge of maintaining access to the servers
  • Microsoft decides when the game isn't popular enough to maintain anymore
Yeah, so, how is this a good thing?
JohnC wrote:FFXIV is an old game (think 2005) already, people (same engine even after overhaul)
In development since 2005, yah. Square-Enix says it's a new graphics engine, although it doesn't LOOK new to me. I actually think what's shown in the benchmark looks -worse- than the original game I played in 2010.
Last edited by auxy on Sat May 25, 2013 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:26 pm

auxy wrote:HAHAHA! DID YOU JUST QUOTE SIMCITY 2013 AS A POSITIVE IN ANY ARGUMENT EVER? HAHAHAA!

No seriously, WHAT? So ... your argument is ... Microsoft is providing the servers for MMOs and MMO-alikes. How exactly is that a point in the favor of the console, again? Let's break it down:
  • Microsoft gets final say in what content goes into the game
  • Microsoft is in charge of maintaining access to the servers
  • Microsoft decides when the game isn't popular enough to maintain anymore
Yeah, so, how is this a good thing?

OH MY GOSH I QUOTED A GAME I LIKE AS A GOOD THING STOP THE PRESSES

Because you won't have to be a top tier publisher or an MMO to use and maintain good servers? I kinda thought I covered that already.

(I'll also add in Need for Speed: Rivals apparently letting your races interact with your friends races without any logging in or telling it to go online or any of that. It was just announced though, so I'm not as well read as I could be.)
Last edited by Savyg on Sat May 25, 2013 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:29 pm

People, it's much simpler. MMORPGs are on DX9 because the vast majority of MMORPG players are using the box they bought from Best Buy five years ago.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:30 pm

Savyg wrote:OH MY GOSH I QUOTED A GAME I LIKE AS A GOOD THING STOP THE PRESSES
You like that game? Disgusting!
Savyg wrote:Because you won't have to be a top tier publisher or an MMO to use and maintain good servers? I kinda thought I covered that already.
And when Microsoft decides they need your server space for replays of Call of Halo 19 matches, your fun, modestly successful game gets shut down?

I've already experienced the frustration of third-party-run servers first-hand with NCSoft and Perfect World managing some of my favorite games. It's not an advantageous situation. It's not as if Microsoft is a charity, and they've come out pretty strongly this generation AGAINST indie developers and the free-to-play gaming scene. They aren't going to make those servers available to people who can't otherwise afford them. This is all just a ploy to gain control of the games.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:31 pm

danny e. wrote:I think it's all summed up like this:
Code: Select all
Playstation 4:   We want to be facebook.
Xbox One:        We want to be television.
PC:              We like who we are.  (without metro crap)   


:lol:

You forgot Wii U: Will someone please buy this? Hello?
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:35 pm

auxy wrote:You like that game? Disgusting!

And when Microsoft decides they need your server space for replays of Call of Halo 19 matches, your fun, modestly successful game gets shut down?

I've already experienced the frustration of third-party-run servers first-hand with NCSoft and Perfect World managing some of my favorite games. It's not an advantageous situation. It's not as if Microsoft is a charity, and they've come out pretty strongly this generation AGAINST indie developers and the free-to-play gaming scene. They aren't going to make those servers available to people who can't otherwise afford them. This is all just a ploy to gain control of the games.

I apologize that I like building things with my friends, I'm such a horrible person.

When Microsoft needs more server space they'll add more servers.

NCSoft and Perfect World? Haha. Not exactly examples of well run online services there. I'll agree with you there. But MS makes money to keep those services running by keeping those services available. You think gamers would run right out and by Cloud Assisted Game #33 if they could no longer play #1-10? I think not.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:37 pm

travbrad wrote:
danny e. wrote:I think it's all summed up like this:
Code: Select all
Playstation 4:   We want to be facebook.
Xbox One:        We want to be television.
PC:              We like who we are.  (without metro crap)   


:lol:

You forgot Wii U: Will someone please buy this? Hello?


Speaking of WiiU:

Image
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:42 pm

JohnC wrote:Speaking of WiiU:

Debunked rumor
Debunked rumor
Expected, but still rumor
Probably true for the OS, not for the games. Though tablets won't be forced at any point
True but nobody cares
In some pics it looked as big as the original Xbox 360. In some cherry picked ones it looked much larger.
I don't know what that means
Prices were announced when now?
Duh. Gaming machines having games. Who knew.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:46 pm

Just a 2 cents on the DX9 and DX11 issue:
most of the games on the market today still using the same engines released on the launch of PS3 and XB360. When the devs of these engines tried to put some new tech into them (dx10 and 11) things got funky.
And why making your own engine when there are plenty of options on the market (some are even free [UDK, Unity], to some point), with enough documentation and people with know-how on its usage.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:49 pm

Not sure if everyone already seen that... If you did - you should still re-watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw&sns=em
Most perfect summary of the MS's intentions for creating One :D
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 2:52 pm

Savyg wrote:When Microsoft needs more server space they'll add more servers. (...) But MS makes money to keep those services running by keeping those services available. You think gamers would run right out and by Cloud Assisted Game #33 if they could no longer play #1-10? I think not.
Server hardware is expensive, and you're looking at it backward from the way Microsoft will see it. Here's Microsoft's viewpoint:

Microsoft beancounter #1: Huh, Cute Esoteric Freemium Game is making us X dollars a month. That's not bad for such a small developer.
Microsoft beancounter #2: Yeah, but ElectronicActiveUbiArtsBlizziVisionSoft says they can make us 9X dollars a month with CoH19 replays.
Microsoft beancounter #1: 9X? That's nine TIMES as much money! But we're out of server space in that region!
(both beancounters look at the server load caused by CEFG.)
Microsoft beancounter #2: Well, they only have a few hundred players a day anyway.
(cue evil laughter and ominous lightning)
danny e. wrote:I think it's all summed up like this:
Playstation 4: We want to be facebook.
Xbox One: We want to be television.
PC: We like who we are. (without metro crap)
travbrad wrote::lol:

You forgot Wii U: Will someone please buy this? Hello?
JohnC wrote:Speaking of WiiU: (img)
Hahaha, poor Wii U. That image is hilarious, but it's factually inaccurate; Nintendo is skipping E3 entirely this year! Way to build your brand, Ninty!

Savyg wrote:Debunked rumor No, it's not. "Always" in quotes because you can only go 24 hours without connecting.
Debunked rumor No, it's not. It was CONFIRMED last I heard. You have any source?
Expected, but still rumor What are you, retarded? They're not going to stop charging for XBL.
Probably true for the OS, not for the games. Though tablets won't be forced at any point That was in reference to the Wii U's tablet controller. Kinect is confirmed required to boot the machine.
True but nobody cares I sure care!
In some pics it looked as big as the original Xbox 360. In some cherry picked ones it looked much larger. It's larger than the original 360; it's closer to the size of the original Xbox. It's actually slightly larger than that, though. Wired has a teardown, they measured it.
I don't know what that means Games are locked on Xbox One to a single Xbox Live account. You have to buy the game on your account to play it, even if it's on the same Xbox.
Prices were announced when now? That was really more of a dig at the Wii U's pricing, although I actually think it's pretty fair.
Duh. Gaming machines having games. Who knew. That last bit was making fun of the fact that NEITHER SYSTEM HAS ANY GAMES.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:00 pm

auxy wrote:Hahaha, poor Wii U. That image is hilarious, but it's factually inaccurate; Nintendo is skipping E3 entirely this year!

Well, they will still be doing streaming broadcast with new game announcements, so they are only "skipping" the physical presence :wink:

auxy wrote:Server hardware is expensive

No, you're wrong - server hardware is dirt-cheap, so is unlimited, perfectly stable network bandwidth available for cloud computing, EA has already proved it to all of us on the launch day for Simcity!... Oh wait... :o
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:08 pm

auxy wrote:No, it's not. "Always" in quotes because you can only go 24 hours without connecting.
No, it's not. It was CONFIRMED last I heard. You have any source?
What are you, retarded? They're not going to stop charging for XBL.

Yes, which is a far cry from 'always on.' And...
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/11537 ... ge__st__15
OK, let me clarify this for you: We're not reporting a statement that has already been denied by the company at the heart of it. We do report on rumors and speculation when companies do not debunk them.

My reason for us not writing about it is because we already asked Microsoft about it and they basically said it was completely inaccurate. Why would we report information that has already been debunked? We've written plenty of stuff critical of Microsoft before. Save the conspiracy theories of us not "keeping up with the rest of the media reporting."

Kotaku asked a single Microsoft employee a question, and he gave a hypothetical scenario. They either didn't seek clarification from other Microsoft personnel at the event or their PR team or they didn't receive responses. We did, and the response was that it wasn't true, so we didn't report it.

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-re ... incomplete
The ability to trade in and resell games is important to gamers and to Xbox. Xbox One is designed to support the trade in and resale of games. Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete. We will disclose more information in the near future.

Asking if I'm retarded because I choose not to make assumptions about products that aren't out? Seriously? MS knows consumers are not happy with Xbox Live, whether they choose to do anything about it or not.

As to the rest I'm not even bothering. I've already been insulted several times just because I disagree with you, I'll pass on continuing this discussion.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:17 pm

JohnC wrote:Well, they will still be doing streaming broadcast with new game announcements, so they are only "skipping" the physical presence :wink:
Oh, huh. That's kind of interesting; didn't hear that.

Savyg wrote:Yes, which is a far cry from 'always on.' And...
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/11537 ... ge__st__15
There's so much noise in that Neowin thread I can't even tell what they're talking about. Used games?

I did some more research on the used games thing; per GameInformer, it seems that there will likely be a database of some sort that retailers patch into and thus "de-authorize" a game from a user's account when it is sold to another user. A portion of the sale will go to Microsoft, and a portion to the game publisher (no word on developers, although that probably just depends on their agreement with the publisher.) "A portion of the sale" -- sounds like a fee, doesn't it? (ᅌᴗᅌ* )

GameInformer is (at least partially) owned by Gamestop, so it seems likely they'd know what's going on with used games.

Savyg wrote:Asking if I'm retarded because I choose not to make assumptions about products that aren't out? Seriously? MS knows consumers are not happy with Xbox Live, whether they choose to do anything about it or not.
Plenty of consumers are very happy with Xbox Live and the way it doesn't get hacked, releasing all their personal data and going down for months. Xbox Live is virtually always up and works pretty dang well; compared to the competition I've been happy to pay for it in the past.

Savyg wrote:As to the rest I'm not even bothering. I've already been insulted several times just because I disagree with you, I'll pass on continuing this discussion.
I know you're trying to take the moral high ground here, but really, it's not my fault or problem if you get offended when I point out that you said something freaking absurd. ( ゚∀゚)☞
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:20 pm

auxy wrote:I know you're trying to take the moral high ground here, but really, it's not my fault or problem if you get offended when I point out that you said something freaking absurd. ( ゚∀゚)☞

Yeah, you're being a dick. Which I assume is normal.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:21 pm

Savyg wrote: I'll pass on continuing this discussion.

There was a "discussion"? :-? I thought we were all just amusing ourselves with yet another Microsoft's utter failure, no? :wink:
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:29 pm

auxy wrote:What are you, retarded?


Savyg wrote:Yeah, you're being a dick. Which I assume is normal.


(Me paging moderators) Hellooo, guys? Anyone here? We need help! Hilfe! Помогите! Personal insults, waaambulance is needed, stat!

Srsly, don't lower yourselves to "personal insults" level. Not cool, people, not cool! :-?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLGWyfGk_LU&sns=em



...Now that we are all calm - let's continue an intelligent, serious, polite discussion related to the awesome gaming machine that is Xbox One... Or is it? :wink:

Image
Last edited by JohnC on Sat May 25, 2013 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 3:45 pm

JohnC wrote:(Me paging moderators) Hellooo, guys? Anyone here? We need help! Hilfe! Помогите! Personal insults, waaambulance is needed, stat!

Srsly, don't lower yourselves to "personal insults" level. Not cool, people, not cool! :-?
Hey, I didn't CALL him retarded, I asked if he suffered from a crippling mental disability, the implication being I had previously suspected that only someone severely disabled could come to the conclusion that he did. s(・`ヘ´・;)

It's a big difference! (ノ> ◇ <)ノ

ANYWAY, getting back on topic, I can't see any way I would ever allow one of these things in my house. Maybe if Kinect 2 is really, really awesome... but even then, I could just buy one and hook it up to my PC -- and there, I might actually be able to use it with my Oculus Rift! That'll be the day! (´⊙ω⊙`)
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 4:10 pm

Yes, getting back on topic. What do we know about Xbox One so far?
- The hardware is inferior to PS4:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox ... tation-4/2
- The amount of available unified memory to games is about 5GB and is (expectedly, though not confirmed) less than on PS4: http://gimmegimmegames.com/2013/05/micr ... for-games/
- Used game fee: will probably not happen
- always online connection, or the frequency of necessary online connection and its effect on single-player games: not clear yet
- required Kinect connectivity: not clear yet
- lots of garbage services for TV/social media/other crap most gamers don't care about (especially the ones who don't have WP smartphone or Windows tablet or Windows 8 on their PC) but have to pay for anyway (as a part of Xbox Gold or the price of console itself): definitely "yes"
- backwards compatibility: definitely "no" - older games can be re-sold to new One users using "cloud services" similar to OnLive (whatever MS will call it), more profit. Same goes for previous Xbox hardware: http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/22/xbox-on ... -confirms/ - forcing people to buy new peripherals for One instead of re-using existing ones from Xbox 360 = more profit!
- Call of Duty: obviously "yes"
-monitoring user behavior (such as attention towards TV screen during Advertisements shown) though Kinect and reselling this data back to advertisers (with user's permission), possibly giving users benefits such as reduced monthly fees for some service: highly unlikely since it's pretty controversial, but hey, you never know :wink:
- cloud services similar to OnLive or Gaikai: yes, but very little details
- gameplay streaming to Twitch.tv/Ustream/Livestream: unknown, most likely "yes" in some form

What else, people?
Last edited by JohnC on Sat May 25, 2013 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xbox One revealed

Postposted on Sat May 25, 2013 4:34 pm

JohnC wrote:Yes, getting back on topic. What do we know about Xbox One so far? (...)
- Used game fee: will probably not happen
I don't know how taking a cut of used games sales is different from "a fee", but ok.
JohnC wrote:What else, people?
  • New controller is a nice redesign with by-all-accounts great-feeling sticks; "impulse triggers" are weird and of dubious utility
  • The machine is a return-to-form with x86 hardware and XBOX HEUG
I really wish they would sell a version without the HDMI passthrough, blu-ray drive, and Kinect, and replace the HDD with a ~500GB SSD. (Leaving out the other parts should make up the cost difference for that, and then some.) That might be an interesting gaming machine, but the crippled GPU next to the competition is still troublesome.

I really hate that both machines are (probably! we don't technically know this about the PS4) going to have slow 2.5" HDDs...
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