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Westbrook348
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:14 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
...because I don't have the reflexes I did when I was 10-12 years younger..


I grew up on Starcraft and really enjoyed SC2 when I played the Terran campaign (haven't taken the time to play thru the expansion). But I am not great at clicking super fast, nor do I really want to invest much in improving that aspect of my skill set. I prefer to focus on the strategy side of things, and couldn't care less about APM.

That's why I've found myself preferring games like Civ 4 and 5, Endless Space, Endless Legend, Master of Orion, etc..
 
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:41 pm

Not a fan of APM either. But it counts more than just raw clicks, grouping units and giving a single order would count as an action per unit.

I think it'd be hilarious if SC2 adopted what some other games implement, where if you give an attack command the unit will start to attack. But if you re-issue another attack command the unit will halt it's current attack swing and start a fresh attack. Dota 2 is a good example of this, by spamming the attack command fast enough the unit actually will never get off one attack. But importantly other unit commands will have the same effect. I think it makes more sense since attacks have an aim + swing/charge/motion time involved. It's been awhile since I played HOTs, but I don't remember Starcraft having a mechanic for unit turn rate, they just instantly turn 180 degrees and attack. Very simple mechanics.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:52 pm

You can do that with stutter-stepping marines in SC2, too. Right-click, H, right-click, H, etc. fast enough and you'll never actually attack anything. They'll just dance, waving their guns around.
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:22 am

I'd argue you only need 40-60 apm to be effective (at least up to Platinum league which is a reasonable goal), especially as protoss, though boosts are obviously a significant advantage
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derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:44 am

Agreed. I haven't played competitively for a few seasons (basically since D3 RoS came out) but even when I play today I hit the 45-55 range, and at the top of my game I was maxing out in the top 10 of my division in Platinum.
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pikaporeon
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:46 pm

Hey girl you want a bad boy? I overclock my backup servers.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:22 pm

Congrats! :D
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derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:57 pm

As somebody who's played a boatload of BroodWar, this is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90K_G4hyxCk
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:40 am

Carbots' stuff is all gold. He's been a big help in getting my gf to start playing SC with me
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derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:20 am

I must say I'm disappointed in the story. I've gotten as far as awakening the Purifiers and it's kinda rehashed. It feels like a Protoss version of the Heart of the Swarm story. Maybe it'll get better as I progress towards the end.
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Krogoth
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:37 pm

Legacy of Void is a big disappointment for single-player and story-mode types. What's left of the SC1 crew at Blizzard stopped caring and wanted to push out another MP expansion and SP part was just an afterthought.

Amon tries to mind-rape and control the Khala protoss after failing to retake Aiur. Zeratul frees Artanis at the cost his life. Tal'darim get upgraded from Protoss you must fight for reasons in WOL into "Evil" Protoss (Red/Black colors) that you must ally with to defeat a bigger bad (Amon). More big battles that end-up destroying some worlds including Shakuras. The story ends with a big deus ex machina with Kerrigan absorbing the last Xel'Naga's essence. She becomes "Space Jesus" as a last-minute boost to kill Amon a.k.a "Space Kil'Jaeden" who turns out to be red Cthulhu clone. The galaxy is back at peace and Jim Raynor disappears with Kerrigan into the "Light".

It is taking pages right from the mess that its known as World of Warcraft lore. Starcraft franchise is too lucrative for Blizzard to abandon I do expect them to revisit it again under a new gaming genre
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Vhalidictes
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:59 pm

Yikes, sounds like the story could use some work. I'm not sure if I'm going to get it now (I was planning to after finishing F4 for the first time).

Also, it sounds like Blizzard is continuing the push to make base management irrelevant, which is a shame because 1) Economy was the only thing I'm good at, and 2) it was the main difference between SC and other RTS games.

If I enjoyed small unit micro I'd be playing Dawn of War or something (not saying that's a bad game, just not my speed).
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:15 pm

Actually, base management is a bigger part of the game now, at least in multi-player modes. Half the mineral patches have a reduced number of minerals compared to HotS, so you're forced to expand more frequently in order to keep your workers busy. If Blizzard wanted to make base management less relevant, mineral patches would have more resources, not less.

The changes set the bar higher for pro matches. More workers and more forced expansions means there will be more conflict sooner, but that'll evaporate in a puff of smoke if you don't keep the bases expanding. For everyone else (well, at least for me) it means a learning curve. I spend less time in battle because I'm not super-fast like Bomber or MC. :lol:
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Vhalidictes
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:28 pm

Thanks for the correction! I guess I was assuming a lot (based on stuff that happened with WC3 years ago).

I used to be a middling SC1 player with no micro whatsoever (unmonitored congo lines of death!), which you could get away with if it was a rushing game and/or your opponent wasn't better at getting established quickly.
 
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:03 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
Yikes, sounds like the story could use some work. I'm not sure if I'm going to get it now (I was planning to after finishing F4 for the first time).

Also, it sounds like Blizzard is continuing the push to make base management irrelevant, which is a shame because 1) Economy was the only thing I'm good at, and 2) it was the main difference between SC and other RTS games.

If I enjoyed small unit micro I'd be playing Dawn of War or something (not saying that's a bad game, just not my speed).


Blizzard RTT games have never been big on macro to begin with. The real meat of their games is tactics and micro-management. You have to fast and be a micro-managing master if you want to be competitive in the big leagues. It is what separates the scrubs from the pros.

LoV MP just encourages more aggressive tactics and strategies. It doesn't change anything in the pro arena where players in there always try to expand as soon as possible.

If you want games that a greater focus on macro-management then I would suggest Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander, Earth 2150/2160, Kohan and Planetary Annihilation.
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Vhalidictes
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:14 am

Krogoth wrote:
If you want games that a greater focus on macro-management then I would suggest Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander, Earth 2150/2160, Kohan and Planetary Annihilation.


Thanks for the suggestions. It's been years since I played TA, I'll have to try it again. The only RTS that I've really enjoyed for the macro (I assume that's the right term for base management?) is Warzone 2100.

I still remember clearly to this day the night of WC3 release. A group of friends and I stayed up all night for the late release, installed it, set up a LAN skirmish, saw the Hero mechanic, went collectively "WTF is this?!". I'm fairly certain that we never again played it after that one night. The gameplay shift from WC2 to WC3 was pretty rough.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:14 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
(unmonitored congo lines of death!)

This is how I attack in Brood War, too. And since the pathfinding for some units was so bad, you'd always have 3 Dragoons that showed up about 30 seconds after everything else died. Or else I'd drop 2-3 Psi Storms at the same time because I'd have all the templar on one hotkey and forget to select a single one before casting. Assuming they lived that long. I was more likely to make Archons than storm troops anyway.

Blizzard recently posted a job opening for a team that will "restore to their past glory" SC/BW, D2, and War3. That's super exciting to me, because I'm hoping a later patch will add modern things like halfway-intelligent pathfinding system and control groups that contain multiple buildings. It'd be like a whole new game.
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:50 pm

ALL I WANT IS BW WITH THE NEW ENGINE. THATS ALL
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:17 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
I still remember clearly to this day the night of WC3 release. A group of friends and I stayed up all night for the late release, installed it, set up a LAN skirmish, saw the Hero mechanic, went collectively "WTF is this?!". I'm fairly certain that we never again played it after that one night. The gameplay shift from WC2 to WC3 was pretty rough.

I had a similar reaction. I mean, upkeep? WTF, Blizzard? I was legitimately worried about SC2 keeping with a large scale when it was first announced. I played through about half of RoC's campaign but never even bought Frozen Throne.
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sweatshopking
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:59 pm

I didn't mind wc3. It wasn't sc, but it was a more gentle rpg/rts game. My daughter is currently playing it, and enjoying it. It's the first rts she's ever played
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:57 am

OK so I finished the campaign and epilogue. I take back a little of what I said. Much of the campaign's story is still kind of clown shoes, but the last few missions were good. The epilogue was totally epic and extremely final.
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superjawes
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:13 pm

I finished the campaign today. I think the story is kinda just meh. I think it's good overall, but I think I liked Wings of Liberty best and Heart of the Swarm a bit more than this one. Blizzard might be heading in a better direction for Starcraft 2 by releasing smaller campaign packs focusing on one to a few characters, but A) we'll have to see how good the Nova missions are, and B) we'll have to see what else Blizzard actually does with it.

Oh, and one thing that Legacy does better than either previous campaign is unit versions. HotS was pretty good, but having four different styles of units (three per unit type) offers a ton of customization for fun missions.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:48 pm

If you haven't played SC2 beyond Wings of Liberty, you can get HotS "free" with Legacy of the Void:

https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/s ... f-the-void

Anybody pick up the Nova missions? I'm not sure where the story is going (there wasn't enough to really make much of it), but the missions themselves are fun.
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