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chobo321321 · Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:11 am

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could recommend an ultra cheap laptopthat match the following criteria.

- Low cost ($800-$1100 Cdn)
- Wireless connection
- Long battery life ( 3 - 5 hours )
- pentium-M type processor

I would just like to get other peoples opinions on cheap laptops. I personally have never owned a laptop before, and have extremely little experence using them.

I just have a few questions about laptops.

1. Can laptops be formatted, and partitioned? When I buy desktop PC's I put together my own computer systems, so I never have to worry about propriety system setups, so I'm not sure if these types of computers can actually be tinkered with to that level.

2. There seems to be a ton of wireless standards like 802.11a, 802.11b, 802.11g. I know "a" can transfer more, and "b" is more for distance not sure what "g" is for. Which would you recommend?

3. Is the standard hardrive RPM 4200?. Does anyone notice any major speed problems with low RPM drives?

I have some more questions, but i'll be more then happy if those ones get answered. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

amphibem · Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:20 am

Well Im not in North America so I cant help with what to buy, but from what Iv seen you'l be able to get wat u want there.

About your questions tho:

1. Yes a laptop hard disk works like a desktop one and can be formated and partinioned how ever you like. You dont have to go with the original setup if you don't want.

2. The "g" standard is definatly what you want. It is the latest standard, compatable with the other major standard "b" and combines "a" and "b"'s advantages, getting long distance at 54Mbps speeds.

3. I think generally 4200rpm are standard, especially on cheap laptops, but look around for a faster (5400rpm drive) because the performace difference will be very noticable. But you can still work with a 42000rpm drive, as long as you have enough RAM and are not hitting the page file too much. On that note, if the laptop only comes with 256MB standard, upgrade to 512MB min as soon as possible. It will make a huge difference.

Hope this helps and you can find what you want.

hazardous_being · Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:21 am

Dunno bout prices in canada and the us, but in new zealand i got a dell inspiron 510m. 1400x1050 res 15" LCD, dvd burner, g wireless, PM 1.4 Ghz, 60 gig 5400rpm HDD (tho specs only said it came with a 4200 rpm, but popping the hard drive out told a different story) on 25% off from dell for a total of $1700. Battery life with a 6 cell battery is bout 3.5 hours with wireless turned on. great little notebook.

UberGerbil · Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:53 am

You're right to look for a Pentium M -- best bang for the battery -- but you're going to have a hard time fitting a Pentium-M into the lower end of your price range. If you were talking US$ it would be possible. You might be able to squeak in at the high end of your range, but at that price you're going to be mostly finding Celeron (ugh) or Pentium4 (double ugh). You might stumble across a mobile Athlon in that price range, which wouldn't be bad at all.

Just about everything these days has WiFi. 802.11b is the low speed (11Mbps) 2.4Ghz band; 802.11g is the higher-speed (54Mbps) standard on the same band. 802.11a is 54Mbs on the ~5Ghz band. I actually like a, because the frequency isn't as crowded (with wireless phones and other WiFi broadcasts) and fewer people have it so you're less likely to have wardrivers. But if you're planning to hook up to hot spots on campus or in coffee shops you want b/g. The Intel WiFi cards used to really suck, and I'd still take a 3rd party card if it's offered, but the recent Intel (b/g) adaptors aren't so bad.

Yes you can reformat your hard disk, just like anything else. You can even swap it out. Since many drives are 4200, you do see a boost in performance by replacing it with a faster drive. There are 7200 drives available for laptops and they make a huge difference in the responsiveness of the machine (especially if you don't have a lot of memory), but they're pricy. Surprisingly even the fastest drives don't have much impact on battery life unless you run them continuously (playing movies off the HD for example).

Definitely get at least 512MB of memory. Note that many laptops only have two memory sockets, so if you get 2x256 and you want to upgrade later, you're going to be throwing something away. Laptops generally use SODIMMs, BTW, which are not interchangable with desktop DIMMs. You can replace the memory on most laptops fairly easily, though on the super-compact models you may have to take things apart (and then find that one bank is soldered into place).

DreadCthulhu · Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:33 am

Well, you might want to look at the Celeron-M's - they are based on the Pentium-M chips, just with less cache & IIRC a somewhat slower FSB, but still are a heck of a lot better than the Pentium-4 based Celerons.

LicketySplit · Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:48 am

This isnt a CM chip..but i just got one of these 2 weeks ago for $600..A64300 w/wireless. They just had a CM on this site last week for $700. Keep watching this site as deals come along daily :wink:

These prices are after rebates...and they are quite a nice machine for the money.

xpbargains.com (Compac or HP)

Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:15 am

These Acer's (you have to scroll down a bit) are the ones that I can think of.

In another forum, we discussed the difference between the C-M vs the P-M. It's less cache and no SpeedStep (down clocking when using battery power), but C-M should still have good battery life.

chobo321321 · Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:57 pm

Thanks for the great feedback

I'll definitely look into a 5400 RPM drive, and 512 RAM if I can get one in this budget. I'm curious about the wireless though.

I've been reading a bit about bluetooth, and how it sends short radio signals ona 2.4GHz band. If I have a wireless adapter capable of using 802.11b/g what would bluetooth enable me to do that those standards could not? I just can seem to differentiate the difference between bluetooth, or the wireless standards.

I've been looking around for computers, and I have found some cheap ones from M-Tech, Acer, and barebone setups from Asus (starting at 600 Cdn), there are even some cheap MDG ones. Has anyone else had experience with any of those brands?

Thats for all the help, I really appreciate it.

UberGerbil · Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:22 pm

Bluetooth is a completely different protocol that happens to run on the same 2.4Ghz band (that frequency is popular -- many wireless phones use it too -- because it is unregulated so anybody can transmit anything they want on it). Bluetooth and WiFi were intended for very different uses, though of course being wireless communication techs they do overlap. Bluetooth is intended for device-to-device connections over extremely short range; WiFi is intended to carry ethernet over somewhat longer range. Bluetooth is supposed to eliminate the cables to peripherals (eg USB); WiFi is supposed to eliminate your ethernet cable. Although WiFi can be used for point-to-point connections, it is typically used with an Access Point, allowing multiple users to connect and get on the internet. Bluetooth is typically used to allow two devices to communicate (allowing your PDA to synch wireless with your PC, or your cellphone to control MP3 playback on your laptop, or your camera to download pictures to a printer) without any connection to the internet whatsoever. You don't find bluetooth access points that will let you get on the internet.

Regardarding the laptops, see this thread for an example of "white box" variations of the same model offered under different brands. Be careful with "barebones" laptops; unlike desktops, it is often difficult to buy the parts and put them together cheaper than buying the thing already assembled.

I know NewEgg doesn't ship to Canada, but here's a good deal on a P-M that almost fits into your price range. Check HP's Canada site -- the US site will sometimes have specials (though you'll definitely want to reformat and reinstall; HPs tend to come with bloatload of useless preinstalls).

Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:35 pm

chobo321321 wrote:
there are even some cheap MDG ones. Has anyone else had experience with any of those brands?

Stay far, far, far away from MDG.

LicketySplit · Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:19 pm

I agree...MDG..."Most Definitely Garbage".

chobo321321 · Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:53 pm

"Stay far, far, far away from MDG. "

LOL! Roger that

Thanks for all the help, I'll take a closer look at some Acer travelmate models, they seem to be in my price range.

Just out of curiosity, what problems are associated with MDG laptops?

LicketySplit · Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:12 pm

IMO..kinda like the emachines of old...poor workmanship and quality.

Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:46 am

It's probably even worse than the emachines of old. They are like the bottom-most scumbags in the foodchain. :evil:

Basically, anything from them is rotten. Just don't bother.

UberGerbil · Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:37 am

chobo321321 wrote:
"Stay far, far, far away from MDG. "
Just out of curiosity, what problems are associated with MDG laptops?

How can MDG stay in business? By preying off people... @ arstechnica.com

chobo321321 · Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:33 am

Thanks for the link. It's scarey how one of their ads almost sucked my dad into buying an MDG notebook, I'm glad they were out of stock when we went... I had no idea this brand was so despised.

Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:47 am

See for yourself. This is just in Toronto alone.

chobo321321 · Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:59 pm

After doing a lot of looking, I have narrowed it down to two models (hopefully

). What do you guys think of them? I know these two are a little over budget, but I can always downgrade to a celeron-m.

1. ACER Aspire 1681 (~$1200 cdn) - This one is around a 1000, and seems packed full of features. Does anyone know how fast the hardrive is? (4200, or 5400). Also, does anyone how the monitors are on these models, I'm quite clueless when it comes to laptop screens.

Specifications:
Part#: LX.A2805.010
CPU: Intel Pentium M Processor 715 1.5GHz
Display: 15.4" WXGA TFT LCD (1280x800) w/ Crystal Bright Technology
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home
Memory: 512MB DDR SDRAM
HD: 80GB
Graphics: Intel 855GME Integrated
Optical Drive: CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive
Communication: V.92 modem, 10/100 LAN, Wireless LAN 802.11b/g
Dimensions: 14.3" x 11.0" x 1.5" (WxDxH)
Weight: 6.5lbs

2. ACER Travelmate 4000(~$1200 cdn) - This one seems similar to the other one, but a bit more expensive.

Specifications:
Part#: LX.T5306.054
CPU: Intel Pentium M Processor 715 1.5GHz
Display: 15" XGA TFT LCD (1024x768)
OS: Microsoft Windows XP PRO
Memory: 512MB DDR SDRAM
Graphics: Intel Extreme Graphics 2
HD: 60GB
Optical Drive: CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive
Communication: V.92 modem, 10/100 LAN, Wireless LAN 802.11b/g

LicketySplit · Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:08 pm

The first one has a better screen while the 2nd has better graphics(Intel Extreme

) Try the site to see if they are 5400 drives or not...and see if they are 8mb cache instead of 2..obviously you would want the 8mb if you can get it.

chobo321321 · Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:55 pm

Aside from the hardrive size, I couldn't find any information on RPM, or buffer size on the acer website. I guess if that kind of information is kept secret the drives ar emost likely 4200RPM, at that speed it wouldn't surprise me if the buffer was 2MB.

UberGerbil · Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:19 pm

Remember you can always get a crappy-performing drive now and then upgrade to a 7200 monster for a couple of hundred bucks down the road. Things like screen and graphics subsystem are forever.

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