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Okay, set up my first LAN over the weekend... and Unreal Tournament is possibly going to be played a lot more between us

Networked 3 PCs together, I'm getting one soon, and we're possibly going to network a few more as well if we need to, up to a maximum of 9 PCs (which is unlikely )

So far, it's a standard Full-duplex 100Mb network (as far as I can tell that's standard), the cabling supports gigabit speeds, so I can't see that going full duplex would hurt... unless someone here tells me otherwise

There's no Internet connection in the house... yet (possible ADSL later), and at the moment we have a 5 port hub.

Thought I'd ask a few questions...

1) Anyone seen a 6-port hub anywhere? 9 + ADSL connection + daisy-chain link = 11 possible connections, and we've got a five port so far... I've not been able to find one anywhere, not sub-gigabit anyways, and we definitly don't have the kind of money that was asking for!

2) We got it set up using the wizards, wasn't happy with this, but I couldn't get it to work otherwise... I think I could possibly handle it now, since I've found the "force IP address" options (192.168.0.Room_Number if you're interested, possibly with 192.168.0.0 as the ADSL link...). If I ever need to restart the whole thing again, can I just set the IP addresses, and manually do it in XP?

3) Can I whallop any old ADSL connection onto any old network hub? If so, how can I get it to be recognised (manually again, I want to learn this stuff, not be spoon fed it ) as the Internet connection etc.?

I'll ask about firewalls etc. later, but for now ZoneAlarm looks good enough for what we'd need it for... plus the standard AVG Anti Virus

Anyways, thanks for any help ,
-Mole

Dude, scratch the hubs and get switches. Are you going to use ICS if/when the DSL is on? ICS automatically assigns the 192.xxx address range.

IntelMole wrote:

So far, it's a standard Full-duplex 100Mb network (as far as I can tell that's standard)... ...we have a 5 port hub.

If you were using a switch, then it would be a Full Duplex network; hubs are only capable of Half Duplex because of how hubs and switches differ in the method of packet transfer...

For more info on the difference, read this article.

1) Anyone seen a 6-port hub anywhere? 9 + ADSL connection + daisy-chain link = 11 possible connections, and we've got a five port so far... I've not been able to find one anywhere, not sub-gigabit anyways, and we definitly don't have the kind of money that was asking for!

Sorry, only seen 5 port hub or switch myself, followed by 8 and then 16 port versions...

What I'd recommend is that if you see the need for more ports, look into getting a 16 port switch so you won't have the issue of needing to daisychain the hubs/switches or the fact that with two hubs/switches you'll have two power outlets to give up to power them. Then you sell off your 5 port hub.

2) We got it set up using the wizards, wasn't happy with this, but I couldn't get it to work otherwise... I think I could possibly handle it now, since I've found the "force IP address" options (192.168.0.Room_Number if you're interested, possibly with 192.168.0.0 as the ADSL link...). If I ever need to restart the whole thing again, can I just set the IP addresses, and manually do it in XP?

Yes you can statically set IP addresses.
In Win2k/XP, when you select TCP/IP for the Network Card in Network Connections and click the Properties button you will be presented with another window. In this window, it's set to "automatically obtain IP..." - change it to "use this IP..." and enter the fields accordingly.

In your situation, the only fields you'll need to fill are the IP and subnet - you don't have a router/gateway which would be sharing your Internet connection, and you don't have DNS running to set your hosts to look at.

3) Can I whallop any old ADSL connection onto any old network hub? If so, how can I get it to be recognised (manually again, I want to learn this stuff, not be spoon fed it ) as the Internet connection etc.?

Yes, you can attach ADSL to a hub (or switch) and it will work once the client(s) are configured appropriately which depends on the details from your ISP.

You would see a benefit to have a router at that point though, which would make the transition easier because routers tend to have DHCP servers included so your clients could be set to use DHCP and you'd have a centralized place for your IP information. Also, routers employ Network Address Translation (NAT) to allow for multiple hosts to use the same connection; however NAT is not really a firewall and shouldn't really be trusted as such. I'd recommend reading this article for more information on NAT.

In fact, if you are interested in learning more about computer networking, I'd recommend reading over everything found here.

Sorry, that's my dumbness on the terminology front, it is a switch don't worry...

Sorry, only seen 5 port hub or switch myself, followed by 8 and then 16 port versions...

What I'd recommend is that if you see the need for more ports, look into getting a 16 port switch so you won't have the issue of needing to daisychain the hubs/switches or the fact that with two hubs/switches you'll have two power outlets to give up to power them. Then you sell off your 5 port hub.

Same here on the port versions...

Having two switches doesn't especially bother me, I could have one downstairs (where the phone line is) and one on the middle floor (it's got three of them, being a uni house...)

Yes you can statically set IP addresses.
In Win2k/XP, when you select TCP/IP for the Network Card in Network Connections and click the Properties button you will be presented with another window. In this window, it's set to "automatically obtain IP..." - change it to "use this IP..." and enter the fields accordingly.

In your situation, the only fields you'll need to fill are the IP and subnet - you don't have a router/gateway which would be sharing your Internet connection, and you don't have DNS running to set your hosts to look at.

That was the puppy that I found, and his name was indeed bingo

But supposing I started the whole network again, can I just assign the address and XP will automagically say AHA! THERE IT IS! Or do I have to manually get it to recognise the IP?

Yes, you can attach ADSL to a hub (or switch) and it will work once the client(s) are configured appropriately which depends on the details from your ISP.

You would see a benefit to have a router at that point though, which would make the transition easier because routers tend to have DHCP servers included so your clients could be set to use DHCP and you'd have a centralized place for your IP information. Also, routers employ Network Address Translation (NAT) to allow for multiple hosts to use the same connection; however NAT is not really a firewall and shouldn't really be trusted as such. I'd recommend reading this article for more information on NAT.

In fact, if you are interested in learning more about computer networking, I'd recommend reading over everything found here.

Will do that ... soon

As already said, I don't REALLY mind having a hub (sorry, switch) daisy chained to another switch... the idea of the 16-port hub seems... well, expensive So I guess I'll just stick with the 8 port switch/router and daisy chain that to the other. In saying that, I've kinda assumed that a router will live happily ever after with a switch, which I should expect is true...

There was one more question I had also, that I forgot to include last time, but I've forgotten it since then. In true computer admin style, I'll remember it later I expect

We'll see what happens, hopefully the nice people at the university will include our house on the uni network after Christmas sometime, so we don't need the ADSL connection. Then it's 2 5-porters all the way

Thanks guys,
-Mole

Mole, 16 and 24 port switches are not that expensive if you are patient and willing to hang out at ebay for a while. The $50. range is close to what you could expect to get a 10/100 switch for.

IntelMole wrote:

Having two switches doesn't especially bother me, I could have one downstairs (where the phone line is) and one on the middle floor (it's got three of them, being a uni house...)

I don't like cascading if I don't have to - it's simpler because you know where the switch is, not chasing two locations. Less power consumption because one device is plugged in, not two. And two ports (one on either hub/switch) are sacrificed as well as a cable...

Add to that as Cass says - 16 port's aren't that expensive. I got mine for $100 Cdn, where 5 ports cost $60.

Anyway, choice is yours...

...supposing I started the whole network again, can I just assign the address and XP will automagically say AHA! THERE IT IS! Or do I have to manually get it to recognise the IP?

In order for automatic configuration, you need a DHCP server where the information is set and DHCP clients (included on all Windows NIC drivers) detect the server and uptake information accordingly. If a Windows machine is not able to find a DHCP server on the network, it automatically assumes a 169.x.x.x address (don't remember what subnet off hand).

If you do not have a DHCP server, you would be best served to statically set IPs.

For more information on DHCP, see this article.

To everyone who is so gung-ho about going to a single 16 port switch, cabling issues need to be considered. Depending on how the actual cabling is being run physically, running everything in a multistory building to a single nexus can be a real pain. Sometimes physical considerations override network topology ones.

mattsteg wrote:

To everyone who is so gung-ho about going to a single 16 port switch, cabling issues need to be considered. Depending on how the actual cabling is being run physically, running everything in a multistory building to a single nexus can be a real pain. Sometimes physical considerations override network topology ones.

Still means that a cable needs to be physically run to pair the two hubs/switches...

Having been dismayed with the results that wireless currently provides, cabling is well worth the time.

Thanks guys, I suppose a switch from ebay wouldn't be so bad...

And the cabling is ghetto. The switch is stuck to the wall with blu tac

The cables are attached to the walls with surgical tape

Trying to think of a better solution, but it's not allowed to take the paint off the walls... that puts epoxy out then

Power consumption isn't an issue since we don't pay for it

What I want to know how to do is how to get windows to recognise a specific IP address as that of another computer... Is it as simple as assigning that address to a particular network card? That seems only half the battle to me, but this is my first network

It may turn out that we don't need 9 ports anyways, since maybe only 6 or 7 of us will definitely have computers...

Cheers again guys,
-Mole

IntelMole wrote:

...the cabling is ghetto. The switch is stuck to the wall with blu tac

The cables are attached to the walls with surgical tape

Trying to think of a better solution, but it's not allowed to take the paint off the walls... that puts epoxy out then

After you've killed some drywall, duct taped it back - It's not truly ghetto until then...

Power consumption isn't an issue since we don't pay for it

One day, you will...

What I want to know how to do is how to get windows to recognise a specific IP address as that of another computer... Is it as simple as assigning that address to a particular network card?

Recognize a specific IP as that of someone else's? I don't follow what you are trying to say - can you give an example?

IP addressing is set so that another computer is distinguished as being on the network with another computer(s) when the IP is the same to the extent provided by it's subnet. For example, 192.168.0.x where x is any number between 0 and 255 because the subnet in this case is 255.255.255.0 - so your computer checks if the IP/subnet info matches the subnet then the IP, and if the IP is 192.168.0.y where y isn't the same number as your IP (checking the x portion) then it recognizes another computer is on the network.

That's kinda what I meant... I can see now that I didn't REALLY explain it all that well...

Our network is currently set up so the IP address for each computer is 192.168.0.(Room Number)... this leaves .0 for any shared device we want maybe...

Anyways, when I get my PC hooked onto the network next january, and set the address of the network card to 192.168.0.7 (7 being my room number of course), will all the other computers kind of go "ah, 192.168.0.7 is another computer, let's see add it's shared resources to my list etc..."

I'm guessing from your answer that it will...

This also correlates with someone else who got a laptop this weekend and after setting his IP (.5 IIRC) and a restart and a switch off of the switch (and some other playing that he did when I wasnt there, I think he just restarted again ), he could share resources with everyone else...

Cheers Canuckle,
-Mole

if you're using 255.255.255.0 as your subnet mask, you cannot use 192.168.0.0 as a host address - by definition, it's the network's address.

IntelMole wrote:

Anyways, when I get my PC hooked onto the network next january, and set the address of the network card to 192.168.0.7 (7 being my room number of course), will all the other computers kind of go "ah, 192.168.0.7 is another computer, let's see add it's shared resources to my list etc..."

I'm guessing from your answer that it will...

Yeppers

But a software firewall can handle that - I prefer ZoneAlarm (http://www.zonelabs.com) cuz it's both free and good, but WinXP does ship with it's own firewall (ICF) if that is your operating system.

Dont use the Windows firewall it is absolute crap. I prefer Sygate Personal Firewall which is also free but Zonealarm is also good.

ZoneAlarm was my first choice as well

Good stuff lads, thanks,
-Mole