Help me to troubleshoot this network problem

The network is the forum.

Moderators: Steel, notfred

Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:07 pm

I am looking for help of people with good network experience that can help me with this one.

I am using a cable modem from my isp Telenor Avidi AS in Norway. I am on Windows XP pro. My bandwide is 512/128.

This is the situation:

I have been having "pictures lost" on IE 6.0. It has started 3 weeks ago. Before everything was ok. I was thinking that something could be screwed so I have just installed again Windows XP. And the problem was not solved. This is stressing because I can get very good file downloads using Getright (70Kbps) so my bandwide is not reduced (I have had bandwide probs before).

The simptoms are these:

1. Ramdom picture lost on webpages. It is not always and it is not on the same pages so i can discard web host problem. If I right click on the picture hole and choose "show picture" the browser retrieves it succesfully, but sometimes my pages are full of just picture holes! :sad:

2. Page lost, I click on a link and IE cannot contact it. I only see inmediatly the page error message. I have to reclick or press refresh for it can contact it. Also ramdom.

3. I have noted some slowness sometimes in the service. The strange thing is that when this is present I can contact some other websites fast.

My download speeds have been constant with getright on 70Kbps. (but I have to use multitread downloads for using all my channel)

I have tried to use trace utyls for troubleshoot this problem, I am almost convinced that it is my isp. But I cannot prove it until now because I don't know what i am looking for. My experience with this kind of network problems is very small.

The help that I can really apreciate from you people here is that you point me to the right direction, what programs can be the best to use for troubleshoot this, how to use them (special settings if they are need it) and what to look for.

This is what I have done: Use tracert, ping plotter and Visualroute for trying to find a fail. First I have pointed them to my gateway with not unusual results. My pings are good until there. Then to some websites on America. I can see sometimes 10% packet lost on some routers that are in nederlands and belong to Telenor, my isp, but I don't know how critic or uncommon this is. I have seen that I get responce times from some of this nederlands routers that are litle over the miliseconds of responses from some routers on the USA. This is strange because they supossed to answer on the 60-100ms range if I compare them to other routers on the nederlands node of my isp and I am getting sometimes 152 ms , the strange thing is that this is constant, so I am not sure if this can be a fail. I have not done anything else because I don't know what is the next steep to go.
I have use tracert utyls from some websites, specially from my newsprovider easynews.com I have seen that they find also the packet lost on the netherlands routers (it is not always the same router).

I have to say that I have had low or bad signal problems here before, diagnosed by thechnicians from my cablecompany (they are cable company and ISP) but when this has happened my download speeds have been bery bad, and as I point now I am geting 571 kbps on some tests here in Norway http://www.itavisen.no/speedometeret.html. Can my problem be related to bad signal again?

Thigs that are not possible: To change isp company, because there are no other offers in my area.

I hope that you can help me. I have posted in other forums before and have not recieved so much help. What I think is that this kind of problem that is random and where you don't lost all the connectivity is dificult to troubleshoot.

Thank you very much.

Thor.

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thorz
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Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:31 pm

Not sure if it will help, but have you tried another browser? WIth your connection you could have a copy of Netscape 6 on your box and check out the sites with that.

Just a thought
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Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:39 pm

Have you installed all the necessary patches with IE? They can get pretty buggy sometimes. I also recommend trying another browser. I personally use Opera. It's faster than IE or Netscape and renders most pages decently (as long as they obey W3C standards). The only time I really use IE is when pages act funny with Opera.
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Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:54 pm

Sounds vaguely like something with cache going wrong (I'm far from an expert in this field, this is just my own wild postulating). In Internet Explorer go to Tools->Internet Options->General->Temporary Internet Files->Settings and set it to "Every visit to the page" if it isn't there already. If the problem goes away with this, something with IEs automatic caching isn't working, perhaps a patch would fix it (haven't heard any instances of this before). If that doesn't fix it, or if it's already set to that, try using Opera or some other browser to see if they have the same problems. I think it's possible that your ISP caches pages on its own server, and that problems could be coming from that (I'm quite possibly wrong on this). Best 'o luck.

edit: I see aristheo has already mentioned opera. I receive a negative two penalty to 0b53rv4t10n 5ki11z for the duration of the round.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: murray on 2002-03-20 23:56 ]</font>
murray
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Postposted on Thu Mar 21, 2002 2:43 am

I'm wondering if it's software related. I see stuff like that all the time on computers full of spyware. Since images often come from a different server, the images sometime don't sync up with the rest. The security settings can can mess with this too.
You are false data.
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Postposted on Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:40 am

thorz, your problem sounds VERY similar to what I go through when browsing at work. Recently, our network provider upstream from us put in a transparent proxy for web traffic. Of course, they didn't tell us that. But, after a few weeks of having images not load correctly or pages not showing their "current" state, even when I KNEW they had been updated, we put together what our provider had done. So, if this is indeed what's happening to you, there are a few ways you can check it. One of them is to hit a web page on a server on which you either have access to the logs or know somebody there who does, and have them tell you if the IP address making the request is yours or a different one (presumably the web proxy). The other test is simply to hit a page that's encrypted. It's easy to tell those because they start with https instead of just http. Since the proxy won't "man in the middle" on an encrypted transaction, you'll connect directly to the site. If you go to an encrypted page and everything loads up without any trouble at all, it won't prove your ISP is using a proxy, but it will serve as evidence of it.
Of course, I'd still advocate trying what the other guys suggested and firing up Netscape or Opera, since as a first test it should be easier than getting someone to search through their web logs for you. Actually, I was going to tell you what IP address you posted with here, so you could check it against your machine's address, but I seem to have lost the moderator's ability to see posters' IP addresses.

Okay, after posting that message I can see your IP address. Odd that; I was just postive I was logged in before...
Anyway, the address from which you posted IS in DNS, which I would call odd for a cable modem connection. That really makes me think you're being proxied without your knowledge. I won't blurt out the full address here in an open forum, but I will say that the last octet of the address was 38. So, is that your machine's address or what?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Despite on 2002-03-21 07:46 ]</font>
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Postposted on Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:51 am

After further searching on the IP address that you posted with, I see you're not the only person to post from it. Unless you've also posted on this forum under another name starting with the letter "T", I'd say you're getting the ol' boneroo from your ISP.
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Postposted on Sun Mar 24, 2002 5:16 pm

well, did you find out any more?
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Postposted on Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:49 am

Hi guys!

Thanks for the help. I had not posted because I was especting to recieve an email everytime someone posted to this tread, maybe very used to a lot of other forums where I use to post.
I can tell you that I have installed oin this 3 days that have passed Windws ME for seen if the problem was still present there, and it was. I have never had this problem before, and I have had dial up, ISDN and now cable. I have tried Netscape on Win ME and was still losing pictures, but Netscape is mor diplomatic than IE when itcannot display a picture, it doesn't display the hole like IE so its more diffficult to know when it is misbehaving.
And about my ip, that is not my IP so I am been definitely passed trough some kind of cache server, can you send me the hole number for I can add it to my complain that I am going to do to the isp? My email is thor774@hotmail.com. I have had other reports from tracert from some pages like easynews, and they show another in (ends with 49) so it can be nice if you can see if all my post appear to come from the same ip.
Something thet I have done: Now OI am using the dns servers from another isp here in Norway, I am asigning them via static values to my NIC, they are from Tiscali Worldonline (I have a dial up account with them) so my IP via DHCP is from Telenor but my dns are from Tiscali, I can note an improvement on the speed that the pages take to apear, but I am still losing pictures. I have call support and they are sending me a man here, maybe tomorrow or on this week. I am gonna ask him if he can check the signal of my cablemodem to see if it is ok. Is there a way to do this by myself? I have had low signal problems before. The strange is that file my downloads are still very good.
I have been on DSLReports, I have run some tests and I will post some links to the results.
Look this tracerts to some places where I have had the problem. I have to repeat that the problem is very ramdom, and must of the time after pressing refresh 1 time on IE the pages load well.

Tracing route to http://mbm.livewiredev.com [208.255.131.17]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 21 ms 24 ms 31 ms gw.tromso.avidi.online.no [148.122.22.1]
2 11 ms 16 ms 6 ms ti541210d060-fe0-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.167.1
61]
3 34 ms 40 ms 32 ms ti541211c060-fe4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.5
7]
4 59 ms 47 ms 49 ms ti541001c050-pos1-2.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.
37]
5 36 ms 55 ms 49 ms ti500001c050-pos10-1.ti.telenor.net [146.172.253
.53]
6 50 ms 49 ms 47 ms ti100001c050-pos4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.
58]
7 34 ms 49 ms 55 ms ti100001b050-ge4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.6
2]
8 34 ms 55 ms 49 ms nb01b11-ge5-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.229.33]
9 125 ms 131 ms 137 ms nb10b02-pos1-0-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.227.121]

10 138 ms 331 ms 226 ms nb10b01-pos5-0-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.227.25]

11 153 ms 129 ms 136 ms POS2-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [157.130.21.37]
12 137 ms 127 ms 137 ms 172.at-5-1-0.XR3.NYC4.ALTER.NET [146.188.180.58]

13 132 ms 129 ms 162 ms 0.so-2-0-0.XL1.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.17.29]
14 157 ms 152 ms 162 ms 0.so-1-0-0.TL1.NYC9.ALTER.NET [152.63.23.113]
15 160 ms 155 ms 160 ms 0.so-5-1-0.TL1.CHI2.ALTER.NET [146.188.163.169]

16 176 ms 145 ms 160 ms 0.so-2-0-0.XL1.CHI2.ALTER.NET [152.63.67.126]
17 154 ms 162 ms 152 ms 0.so-7-0-0.XR1.CHI2.ALTER.NET [152.63.67.130]
18 * 185 ms 154 ms 293.at-5-0-0.XR1.CHI4.ALTER.NET [152.63.64.246]

19 159 ms 152 ms 152 ms 195.ATM7-0.GW5.IND1.ALTER.NET [152.63.68.249]
20 159 ms * * mis-gw.customer.ALTER.NET [157.130.101.162]
21 176 ms 178 ms 177 ms 208.255.131.17

Trace complete.

---------------------------------------
Tracing route to http://www.eltiempo.com [164.109.33.31]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 20 ms 8 ms 16 ms gw.tromso.avidi.online.no [148.122.22.1]
2 18 ms 14 ms 8 ms ti541210d060-fe0-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.167.1
61]
3 35 ms 40 ms 39 ms ti541211c060-fe4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.5
7]
4 40 ms 39 ms 49 ms ti541001c050-pos1-2.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.
37]
5 34 ms 40 ms 39 ms ti500001c050-pos10-1.ti.telenor.net [146.172.253
.53]
6 45 ms 56 ms 47 ms ti100001c050-pos4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.
58]
7 39 ms 40 ms 39 ms ti100001b050-ge4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.6
2]
8 34 ms 39 ms 40 ms nb01b11-ge5-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.229.33]
9 128 ms 121 ms 128 ms nb10b02-pos4-0-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.228.34]

10 144 ms 145 ms 136 ms nb10b01-pos5-0-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.227.25]

11 135 ms 138 ms 136 ms POS2-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [157.130.21.37]
12 125 ms 128 ms 129 ms 172.at-6-1-0.XR3.NYC4.ALTER.NET [146.188.180.50]

13 127 ms 137 ms 129 ms 0.so-2-0-0.XL1.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.17.29]
14 148 ms 146 ms 144 ms 0.so-1-0-0.TL1.NYC9.ALTER.NET [152.63.23.113]
15 143 ms 146 ms 145 ms 0.so-1-1-0.TL1.DCA6.ALTER.NET [146.188.141.217]

16 148 ms 129 ms 129 ms 0.so-6-0-0.XL1.DCA6.ALTER.NET [152.63.38.70]
17 146 ms 128 ms 129 ms 0.so-6-0-0.GW6.DCA6.ALTER.NET [152.63.41.221]
18 140 ms 129 ms 128 ms digex-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.214.102]
19 143 ms 152 ms 128 ms dca2-distC-rtr2-pos2-3.atlas.digex.com [164.109.
3.174]
20 155 ms 129 ms 129 ms eltiempo.com [164.109.33.31]

Trace complete.
----------------------------
Tracing route to eltiempo.terra.com.co [164.109.33.114]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 15 ms 14 ms 17 ms gw.tromso.avidi.online.no [148.122.22.1]
2 23 ms 8 ms 14 ms ti541210d060-fe0-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.167.1
61]
3 36 ms 39 ms 40 ms ti541211c060-fe4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.5
7]
4 41 ms 39 ms 41 ms ti541001c050-pos1-2.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.
37]
5 34 ms 40 ms 40 ms ti500001c050-pos10-1.ti.telenor.net [146.172.253
.53]
6 30 ms 39 ms 39 ms ti100001c050-pos4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.
58]
7 32 ms 39 ms 40 ms ti100001b050-ge4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.6
2]
8 35 ms 40 ms 39 ms nb01b11-ge5-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.229.33]
9 130 ms 137 ms 129 ms nb10b02-pos4-0-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.228.34]

10 186 ms 162 ms 218 ms nb10b01-pos5-0-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.227.25]

11 136 ms 129 ms 129 ms POS2-0.GW8.NYC4.ALTER.NET [157.130.21.37]
12 141 ms 144 ms 146 ms 172.at-5-1-0.XR4.NYC4.ALTER.NET [146.188.180.62]

13 133 ms 145 ms 144 ms 0.so-2-0-0.XL2.NYC4.ALTER.NET [152.63.18.29]
14 140 ms 144 ms 146 ms 0.so-2-0-0.TL2.NYC8.ALTER.NET [152.63.0.185]
15 147 ms 145 ms 154 ms 0.so-6-0-0.TL2.DCA6.ALTER.NET [152.63.13.9]
16 141 ms 131 ms 136 ms 0.so-6-0-0.XL2.DCA6.ALTER.NET [152.63.38.74]
17 143 ms 145 ms 145 ms 0.so-7-0-0.GW6.DCA6.ALTER.NET [152.63.41.225]
18 134 ms 137 ms 137 ms digex-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.214.102]
19 146 ms 137 ms 154 ms dca2-distA-rtr1-pos3-0.atlas.digex.com [164.109.
3.14]
20 148 ms 137 ms 144 ms 164.109.33.114

Trace complete.
-----------------------
Tracing route to http://www.3com.com [192.136.32.249]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * 14 ms 17 ms gw.tromso.avidi.online.no [148.122.22.1]
2 13 ms 16 ms 14 ms ti541210d060-fe0-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.167.1
61]
3 41 ms 39 ms 32 ms ti541211c060-fe4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.5
7]
4 41 ms 32 ms 32 ms ti541001c050-pos1-2.ti.telenor.net [146.172.227.
37]
5 37 ms 49 ms 47 ms ti500001c050-pos10-1.ti.telenor.net [146.172.253
.53]
6 48 ms 47 ms 55 ms ti100001c050-pos4-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.
58]
7 58 ms 47 ms 49 ms ti100001b050-ge5-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.248.7
0]
8 40 ms 41 ms 32 ms nb01b11-ge5-0.nb.telenor.net [217.70.229.33]
9 41 ms 41 ms 39 ms s-b3-pos0-1.telia.net [213.248.67.49]
10 46 ms 41 ms 38 ms s-bb1-pos1-2-0.telia.net [213.248.66.1]
11 63 ms 55 ms 73 ms kbn-bb1-pos3-1-0.telia.net [213.248.64.129]
12 136 ms 137 ms 146 ms nyk-bb1-pos0-2.telia.net [213.248.64.10]
13 165 ms 154 ms 161 ms chi-bb1-pos0-1-0.telia.net [213.248.80.6]
14 203 ms 210 ms 209 ms sca-bb1-pos0-1-0.telia.net [213.248.80.34]
15 197 ms 211 ms 208 ms sca-wal-i1-pos3-0.telia.net [213.248.86.2]
16 218 ms 215 ms 201 ms at-t-sca.k.telia.net [213.248.86.10]
17 211 ms 211 ms 208 ms gbr4-p50.sffca.ip.att.net [12.123.13.70]
18 251 ms 234 ms 234 ms gbr3-p50.dvmco.ip.att.net [12.122.2.66]
19 242 ms 259 ms 241 ms gbr1-p100.dvmco.ip.att.net [12.122.5.18]
20 227 ms 227 ms 241 ms ar1-a300s2.dvmco.ip.att.net [12.127.4.133]
21 258 ms 259 ms 265 ms 12.125.154.42
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

I am still counting with your help. Thanks!

T.
thorz
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Postposted on Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:10 am

thorz
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Postposted on Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:25 pm

thorz, the IP address your first message was posted from was 217.70.229.38 and it's in DNS as davinci.ti.telenor.net. As I mentioned, that's an odd address & name combination to be in DNS for what is presumably an address from a pool of dynamically assigned addresses. Your two messages today were posted from an address with the last octet of 221, which is also in DNS, though with a name more commonly seen in this sort of use, in this case it is: xxxname-xxxnumber.tromso.avidi.online.no
Also as I mentioned before, unless you've created two accounts here, you're not the only person to have posted from that first address. I personally am almost 100% certain of what's causing your problem. I appreciate that you need to have good evidence of what's going on when you complain to your ISP, but I think at this point you're wasting your time. Web pages don't load correctly on the first try, but hitting reload will pop all the missing pictures into place? That's classic poorly running proxy behavior. The fact that your speed on downloads is fine further supports the idea that you're being poorly proxied. Your course is clear, in theory anyway: get your ISP to either fix their proxy or cut it out of their network completely. In practice, I'd wager you're in for one heck of an uphill battle. Good luck, thorz! (you'll need it)
Despite
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Postposted on Tue Mar 26, 2002 5:58 pm

I have seen this davinci name before in some traces that I have run. I can see that I apear in other webpages as comming from a router or machine called galileo on Telenor's net. Is it possible to have dynamic proxies? I have reports about more than one ip as you can see.
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Postposted on Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:33 am

Yes, it is possible that you're behind multiple proxies. In this case I think I'd call them proxies in parallel, rather than in series, if you know what I mean. Perhaps your ISP has some sort of "round robin" assigning of users/connections to their proxies.
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