Adobe vs. Apple

From OSX to iPods, iTunes to Mac Minis, and all other things Apple.

Moderators: David, Thresher

Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:41 am

According to this article, Adobe seems to be gathering their forces to assault Apple on the Flash front.

I have had an iPhone since day 1 of gen 1. I can honestly say that I have not missed Flash. In fact computing on my iPhone has change my mind on that old and outdated web AP and that it is a dinosaur. In this case I feel Jobs & Apple are doing their customers due diligence by protecting them and the hardware from it.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Wounded Warrior Project
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
tanker27
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:34 am

The compiler Apple is not allowing on their device simply takes a Flash project and compile it to use the native iPhone/iPad API.

To put this in perspective, its equivalent to Microsoft not allowing anyone to write OpenGL support for windows, and also making it illegal for anyone to release a game using any form of shader abstraction on top of direct3d.

For developers its just a great way to get access to cross platform functionality without re-writing the app from scratch (because you cant even use your own language compiler).
Does it really make sense to have Google rewrite their financial charting system just for the iPad for example??

Anyways, why dont you just download the app you like ?? and let people write what they want for the device...
And even in the worse case that you downloaded a Flash built iPhone app by mistake, its easy to remove.
for example, why does someone need to write a Tivo or MediaCenter scheduling app using ObjectiveC using native iPhone API ?
Why not write it once using Flash and have it available on 'all' mobile and web platform ?

And for your other concern, HTML5 animated advertisement are just around the corner... :)
sschaem
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:42 am

Thats fine. My contention is Flash is bloat-ware no matter how many wrappers you put it through. It a resource hog. you have to agree on that.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Wounded Warrior Project
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
tanker27
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:04 pm

I would rather have bloatware then nothing!

I hate Flash but that does not mean the alternative would be better. There is a good reason Flash became the dominate (your source says 95% marketshare) for online video. You can complain all you want about its problems and in many ways I'll fully agree with you. However, to say that what Apple doing is a good thing, explicitly restricting accessing to the market and then trying to make their customers believe it is in their own interest, is atrocious.

The current alternative is no standard. That's not going to happen any time soon due to the economy of scale flash has due to it's overwhelming marketshare. Either Flash can become leaner and easier to work with or it will slowly die. Adobe has already made a serious push to have greater GPU support (something that still will not help Apple :D ). If Flash doesn't innovate then HTML5, or a similiar standard, will slowly come to dominate the marketplace. All else equal this would be a good thing but is very diffucult to do because of Flash's huge marketshare.

To sum up: Flash has a great deal of drawbacks and will either innovate or slowly be replaced (but not in the next few years no matter what). Either way Apple is screwing their customers and their customers are gullible enough to believe it is in their own interest!
blazer_123
Gerbil
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:08 pm

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:57 pm

blazer_123 wrote:Either way Apple is screwing their customers and their customers are gullible enough to believe it is in their own interest!



Why? I dont feel "screwed" in the least bit. Just because I cant see some ad (current site excluded) or video doesnt mean I dont have access to it at all.

You say we are gullible? /Pish, in fact I would argue that most of us run some kind of ad blocking software on our "big" PCs. I do and I know many of you do too. There is one exclusion to my ad blocking list and thats TR. I know they can be trusted.

Just because Flash has "market" share doesnt always transfer to "its a good product." Yes, Flash had its uses, about 20 years ago. Now its a dinosaur at best.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Wounded Warrior Project
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
tanker27
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:23 pm

tanker27 wrote:Thats fine. My contention is Flash is bloat-ware no matter how many wrappers you put it through. It a resource hog. you have to agree on that.


You're ignoring the FAR bigger issue that is coming from this. Apple is not allowing ANY third party development frameworks. That hurts not just Adobe and Flash but the number of other third party frameworks and companies that develop such products. Apple's reasoning for it is even worse because they're not willing to be honest. ArsTechnia's article debunks some of the reasoning Steve Jobs has given.

Apple can prevent Adobe software from running on iPhone OS all they want. But they should at least have the guts to say no directly to Adobe. Instead this is nothing but a proxy war and innocent bystanders, both developers and customers, are being hurt by it.

This is the same situation as Apple suing HTC in an attempt to go after Google. They're hurting the little guys instead of taking on the real deal.
Skrying
Gerbil Jedi
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:26 pm

You dont use flash, ok cool. But developers do want to leverage a cross platform API.

And Flash is used for more then for youtube & adverts.

Right click from time to time on a web page... Why did Google choose to write their financial chart system using Flash for example?
Just because you dont use Flash based resources on the web , this doesn't say that no one else should be allowed to.

So this is the whole point here. Apple is stopping people like google to use their webcode on the iPad and iPhone because it uses Adobe Flash.
All Apple want to do it lock developers to their platform... it doesn't help them if the same app is available on Android or Mobile 7

Adobe as struggled with Apple to access their API to leverage in Flash, for example Apple bared Adobe from accelerating video on their platform.
But when this is broken, Apple will have nothing credible for developers... BTW, is really 1.8meg that bloated for what Flash 10.1 includes?
From cross plaftorm shader compiler to mpeg4 bitstream + h264 decode (among 5 other codec, AAC, mpeg3, screen, etc..) (my x264 mpeg4 encode play as is flash)
Flash is 'slow' only because GPU acceleration is a B* and unstable .. MS didn't even try before vista. Only I9 is getting GPU acceleration... when that happen Flash will to.
And I wonder how that help the 70%?? that run XP and Firefox, ie6, opera, etc... ?

Also dont think Apple Mobile Add platform, introduce in Version 4.0 , wont bring ads all over those apple systems.
sschaem
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:46 pm

It's not just Flash though. Can we please expand this conversation to include the fact that this is all mutliplatform frameworks as Apple is stating in it's current form. Take a look at the MonoTouch website. Clearly they're quite concerned with the iPhone OS 4 issue and last I checked Novell and Adobe were not in bed together.
Skrying
Gerbil Jedi
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:59 pm

I hate flash... but I also hate apple.
I wish Flash would die. I do not wish apple would die, because then there would be more douchebags on windows.

What apple is doing may or may not be legal depending on who the biased judge is and how much money gets pushed under the table.
What is fairly certain, is that Microsoft wouldn't get away with it.

This proves that despite what the anti-MS idiots say, Microsoft is one of the least "evil" companies out there. Apple is one of the most evil. Google is becoming evil very rapidly.
You don't have to feel safe to feel unafraid.
danny e.
Maximum Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 4371
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:09 pm
Location: Indonesia/Nebraska/Wisconsin

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:29 am

I just tried HTML5 with youtube, and I must say..... WTF?

What are the advantages again? I'm seeing seriously higher CPU utilization with HTML5 compared to Flash. Did I do something wrong?
i5 2500K @ 4.5GHz / Cooler Master V8 / Asus P8P67 Evo / 8GB G.skill DDR3-1600 / MSI GTX 560 Ti / Seasonic S12-650 / 1TB Spinpoint F3 / Corsair 600T Graphite / those cheap 1440p Korean monitors
BoBzeBuilder
Graphmaster Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Beerland

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:14 am

Maybe Flash is doing hardware acceleration?
Amiga 1200, 68020@28MHz, 4MB+2MB RAM, Conner 80MB harddrive
FubbHead
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:04 pm
Location: Borås, Sweden

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:48 am

To me the issue is how freaking paternalistic apple is being. It's a matter of principle really. The approach that Steve Jobs knows whats right for the consumer and not the consumer himself just stands against everything I've come to believe. I'm training to be a doctor, a profession where the doctor knows infinitely more about the condition a patient suffer's from. Yet at the end of it all, despite having significantly more insight about the disease and it's treatment options in pretty much everyway, the doctor always always concedes that ultimately the patient knows whats best for them and must present ALL options.

Apple however takes a completely different approach, preferring to simply tell you what they want for you and if you don't like it get lost. They are inflexible concerning everything.
i7 2600k @4.4 ghz 1.26v - GA-P67X-UD3 - 16gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600mhz - Evga Geforce GTX 570 - 2x 120gb Vertex 3 Raid-0 - Seagate Barracude 1.5TB - Silverstone FT02- HP 2709M Monitor
Sunburn74
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:45 am

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:38 am

Sunburn74 wrote:To me the issue is how freaking paternalistic apple is being. It's a matter of principle really. The approach that Steve Jobs knows whats right for the consumer and not the consumer himself just stands against everything I've come to believe. I'm training to be a doctor, a profession where the doctor knows infinitely more about the condition a patient suffer's from. Yet at the end of it all, despite having significantly more insight about the disease and it's treatment options in pretty much everyway, the doctor always always concedes that ultimately the patient knows whats best for them and must present ALL options.

Apple however takes a completely different approach, preferring to simply tell you what they want for you and if you don't like it get lost. They are inflexible concerning everything.



Yes it a matter or principle....As a consumer I expect a product that I pay for to work. Why berate Apple for ensuring this. If you hate Apple fine, dont buy their stuff. Apple is trying to ensure that their product works for their clientele. Its no more different than any other closed product. "I bought this GE microwave. I found this awesome operating system that turns it into a convection over but damn GE for not providing a USB port to upload it!" :roll:

What you are all hating on is the fact Apple has good hardware and you want a piece of it but cant stand that Apple locks it down. If you say anything other to that you are lying.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Wounded Warrior Project
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
tanker27
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:56 am

tanker27 wrote:
Sunburn74 wrote:To me the issue is how freaking paternalistic apple is being. It's a matter of principle really. The approach that Steve Jobs knows whats right for the consumer and not the consumer himself just stands against everything I've come to believe. I'm training to be a doctor, a profession where the doctor knows infinitely more about the condition a patient suffer's from. Yet at the end of it all, despite having significantly more insight about the disease and it's treatment options in pretty much everyway, the doctor always always concedes that ultimately the patient knows whats best for them and must present ALL options.

Apple however takes a completely different approach, preferring to simply tell you what they want for you and if you don't like it get lost. They are inflexible concerning everything.



Yes it a matter or principle....As a consumer I expect a product that I pay for to work. Why berate Apple for ensuring this. If you hate Apple fine, dont buy their stuff. Apple is trying to ensure that their product works for their clientele. Its no more different than any other closed product. "I bought this GE microwave. I found this awesome operating system that turns it into a convection over but damn GE for not providing a USB port to upload it!" :roll:

What you are all hating on is the fact Apple has good hardware and you want a piece of it but cant stand that Apple locks it down. If you say anything other to that you are lying.


Lots of PC and laptop manufacturers have excellent hardware and manage to do so without locking anyone out. Would you honestly argue the Mac Pro desktop is significantly better designed than say a Maingear Shift workstation? The maingear is significantly superior in pretty much every aspect one could glean superiority from. Yet only one of those manufacturers is trying to tell you how to use their machine.

Look like I said its a matter of principle and not really a discussion on hardware. Apple can price their stuff at whatever premium they wish. That doesn't offend me (too much) and honestly they have at least one product that is superb and fairly priced (their all in one desktops). Its the paternalistic philosophy they follow to such extremist ends is pretty much why I stay away from them.
i7 2600k @4.4 ghz 1.26v - GA-P67X-UD3 - 16gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600mhz - Evga Geforce GTX 570 - 2x 120gb Vertex 3 Raid-0 - Seagate Barracude 1.5TB - Silverstone FT02- HP 2709M Monitor
Sunburn74
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:45 am

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:59 am

Awesome strawman there - by supporting additional OSes (you can run Windows and Linux out of the box) Apple's not trying to tell anyone how to use any of their portable or desktop computers. The iPhone OS (counting the iPad here) is the only instance where that might be true. And yes, companies tell you how to use your portable device all the time.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do.
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 21286
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: WHAT?

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:14 am

How many companies go in reverse though? How many companies go into reverse while literally flaunting how stupid their new found direction is in public? A number of the apps they showed at the iPhone OS 4 event were using third party frameworks that are multiplatform. Yet they're banning those apps! How does that make any sense? How does that add any weight to what Steve Jobs has said on the matter? It doesn't.

Block Adobe. I couldn't care less if two companies are going at it like this. It becomes a serious issue, one where people should complain, when companies and consumers not related to Adobe or Apple are being hurt. This is just stupid and the irrationality of people supporting Apple on this matter is extremely frustrating.

I get it. You don't like Flash. But THIS DOESN'T JUST BLOCK ADOBE APPS OR FLASH BASED APPS.
Skrying
Gerbil Jedi
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:32 am

FubbHead wrote:Maybe Flash is doing hardware acceleration?


Umm, no.. I'm running it on a notebook with crappy Intel graphics. Can someone tell me their experience with HTML5 and youtube?
i5 2500K @ 4.5GHz / Cooler Master V8 / Asus P8P67 Evo / 8GB G.skill DDR3-1600 / MSI GTX 560 Ti / Seasonic S12-650 / 1TB Spinpoint F3 / Corsair 600T Graphite / those cheap 1440p Korean monitors
BoBzeBuilder
Graphmaster Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:43 pm
Location: Beerland

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:06 am

Given how poorly Flash runs on the Mac, I doubt they could put out something that ran in realtime on the iPhone anyway.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do.
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 21286
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: WHAT?

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:53 am

BoBzeBuilder wrote:
FubbHead wrote:Maybe Flash is doing hardware acceleration?


Umm, no.. I'm running it on a notebook with crappy Intel graphics. Can someone tell me their experience with HTML5 and youtube?


With Flash 10.0.45.2 on my netbook (1201N running Ubuntu 9.04 x64) YouTube Flash video tops out at 480p. The same YouTube video via HTML5 allows me to play @ 720p. The 1201N is easily capable of 1080p playback when one uses a VPDAU enabled app (XBMC).

Tonight I'm going to do a Flash 10.1 video playback/CPU usage comparo across Mac OS X 10.6.3 (Core 2 Duo/Core Duo), Ubuntu 9.04 x64 (Atom 330/ION and Core 2 Quad) and Windows 7 Pro x64 (i7 920 @ 4.2).
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:27 pm

BoBzeBuilder wrote:
FubbHead wrote:Maybe Flash is doing hardware acceleration?


Umm, no.. I'm running it on a notebook with crappy Intel graphics. Can someone tell me their experience with HTML5 and youtube?


On my system (chrome 5.0 on Vista/Q6600) HTML5 video look pixelated and there is a few visual bugs.
So it look a bit worse then Flash (even when flash is set in its fast 'low quality mode') and use a bit more cpu.
note: in Flash "low quality" == point filtered scaling VS bilinear scaling.

My netbook can play 720p with flash and 1080p using point filtered scaling (and looks better then HTML5)

At this time HTML5 seem to bring no speed enhancement and lower visual quality. Also google is now building Chome with Flash built in.
That way they get a HW accelerated h264 decoder (and the cross platform SIMD optimized multithreaded decoder) in HTML5
So my guess, best case in the future HTML5 will have the exact same performance... But not on the MAC apple will make sure of that.
Apple will allow its HTML5 engine to access HW acceleration but will continue to block it for plugins.

But I think flash will be the most efficient web player for a while now that HW acceleration is possible.

I'm a programmer , and its amazing how many feature Apple is locking developers out. And years ago I thought Microsoft was bad...
Apple made me appreciate Microsoft politics :)
sschaem
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:33 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:Given how poorly Flash runs on the Mac, I doubt they could put out something that ran in realtime on the iPhone anyway.


Apple would make sure of that :)

but right now a few apps Flash apps are available on the iPhone

http://itunes.apple.com/app/that-roach- ... 41362?mt=8
http://itunes.apple.com/app/fickleblox/id330996323?mt=8
...

Those dont seem like they need much of the iPhone processing power to achieve their goals.
sschaem
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:38 pm

tanker27 wrote:Yes it a matter or principle....As a consumer I expect a product that I pay for to work. Why berate Apple for ensuring this. If you hate Apple fine, dont buy their stuff. Apple is trying to ensure that their product works for their clientele. Its no more different than any other closed product. "I bought this GE microwave. I found this awesome operating system that turns it into a convection over but damn GE for not providing a USB port to upload it!" :roll:

What you are all hating on is the fact Apple has good hardware and you want a piece of it but cant stand that Apple locks it down. If you say anything other to that you are lying.


Why would making apps available written in C# or javascript break the device ?
Do I need to write a remote control UI using Objective C to not break the iPad ?

You analogy is not relevant.

It more like "I would like to heat up this lasagna" ....

"I cant do that Tanker27" "the lazagna contain to much sodium and its bad for you".... "Dont do that Tanker27..." "lawyers are on their way Tanker27..."
sschaem
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:05 am

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:52 pm

sschaem wrote:Why would making apps available written in C# or javascript break the device ?
Do I need to write a remote control UI using Objective C to not break the iPad ?

You analogy is not relevant.

It more like "I would like to heat up this lasagna" ....

"I cant do that Tanker27" "the lazagna contain to much sodium and its bad for you".... "Dont do that Tanker27..." "lawyers are on their way Tanker27..."



B*tch all you want. It all boils down to this: Apple has a product you want but you are not willing to do what it takes to have it. So you complain about its closed-ness, its archaic rules, its roadblocks. Not everything in life is this open book mentality. There are trade offs for everything. Me, I dont care. I carefully evaluated what is offered and what I need said products to do and what I am willing to trade for it. I have lived within their restrictions pretty well and havent looked back since.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Wounded Warrior Project
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
tanker27
Darth Gerbil
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:03 pm

sschaem wrote:My netbook can play 720p with flash and 1080p using point filtered scaling


Interesting. Can you post your netbook specs and your OS and Flash version info?
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:19 pm

Skrying wrote:A number of the apps they showed at the iPhone OS 4 event were using third party frameworks that are multiplatform. Yet they're banning those apps! How does that make any sense?


Which apps at the iPhone OS 4 event used third party frameworks?


Skrying wrote:Block Adobe. I couldn't care less if two companies are going at it like this. It becomes a serious issue, one where people should complain, when companies and consumers not related to Adobe or Apple are being hurt. This is just stupid and the irrationality of people supporting Apple on this matter is extremely frustrating.


Jean-Louise Gassée:

"Who, in his right mind, expects Steve Jobs to let Adobe (and other) cross-platform application development tools control his (I mean the iPhone OS) future? Cross-platform tools dangle the old “write once, run everywhere” promise. But, by being cross-platform, they don’t use, they erase “uncommon” features. To Apple, this is anathema as it wants apps developers to use, to promote its differentiation. It’s that simple. Losing differentiation is death by low margins. It’s that simple. It’s business. Apple is right to keep control of its platform’s future."

http://bit.ly/dCwr8x
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:59 pm

End User wrote:Which apps at the iPhone OS 4 event used third party frameworks?


Tap Tap Revenge uses LUA scripting. There are numerous other highly popular App Store games and programs that also take advantage of third party frameworks. The ArsTechnica article I posted earlier in this thread highlights some of those and debunks the reasoning given by Steve Jobs.
Skrying
Gerbil Jedi
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:05 pm

tanker27 wrote:B*tch all you want. It all boils down to this: Apple has a product you want but you are not willing to do what it takes to have it. So you complain about its closed-ness, its archaic rules, its roadblocks. Not everything in life is this open book mentality. There are trade offs for everything. Me, I dont care. I carefully evaluated what is offered and what I need said products to do and what I am willing to trade for it. I have lived within their restrictions pretty well and havent looked back since.


You realize that with this change Apple has effectively limited the product you purchased even more? There's numerous advantages and disadvantages to having a closed system such as the iPhone OS. In the past it was worthwhile and really didn't hurt any body. Now they're hurting developers with this change.

Why in the hell do you defend a company who is progressively getting worse in their closed nature for NO BENEFIT to you? I don't understand that. You've provided zero reasoning for this so far. All you've done is come up with "Flash is bad."

Again. You've lived with a previously acceptable amount of restrictions. You're getting even more with NO BENEFIT to you. You see it as reasonable for a company to make their products worse over time in certain areas? I don't. You shouldn't either. It's being a bad consumer.
Skrying
Gerbil Jedi
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:26 pm

Skrying wrote:
End User wrote:Which apps at the iPhone OS 4 event used third party frameworks?


Tap Tap Revenge uses LUA scripting. There are numerous other highly popular App Store games and programs that also take advantage of third party frameworks.


If portions of the app go against the new iPhone Developer Program License Agreement then changes will have to be made. If not, the developer should not let the door hit them on their way out.


Skrying wrote:The ArsTechnica article I posted earlier in this thread highlights some of those and debunks the reasoning given by Steve Jobs.


As Jean-Louise Gassée said, "Apple is right to keep control of its platform’s future." If you think Adobe is any different then you are walking around with blinders on. Apple is basically telling developers to stop being lazy and write real iPhone/iPad apps via Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript. I wish Apple did this earlier.
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:04 pm

End User wrote:As Jean-Louise Gassée said, "Apple is right to keep control of its platform’s future." If you think Adobe is any different then you are walking around with blinders on. Apple is basically telling developers to stop being lazy and write real iPhone/iPad apps via Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript. I wish Apple did this earlier.


First, how does Apple lose any control on their platforms future by allowing third party frameworks? Near universally iPhone OS was considered the most closed platforms in the smartphone world. That is complete control. Gassée's comments just show ignorance. It's making invalid assumptions to support his opinion. Again, the ArsTechnica article quite clearly debunks this notion of inferiority when using these frameworks.

I find your insinuation that developers are being "lazy" for using frameworks that allow them to develop for multiple platforms to be ignorant at best. Using these frameworks allow developers to spend more time expanding features and enhancing their applications. A developer doesn't want to spend time coding platform specific versions of their applications when there is no need for it. We have moved ahead in technology. Why should we support this shift backwards? Developers should be focused on improving their applications for their customers. That's what is important!

What makes the language the application is in any more "real" for the iPhone OS? It doesn't. It's a out right artificial limitation. It doesn't even require more work by Apple to simply allow these frameworks to be used. Absolutely none. Any notion that these applications are inferior is clearly quite wrong.

It makes me sick that you're so anti-consumer on this. When a company has made a move that purposely hurts you for their own gain you shouldn't support it.
Skrying
Gerbil Jedi
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Missouri

Re: Adobe vs. Apple

Postposted on Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:13 pm

tanker27 wrote: B*tch all you want. It all boils down to this: Apple has a product you want but you are not willing to do what it takes to have it. So you complain about its closed-ness, its archaic rules, its roadblocks. Not everything in life is this open book mentality. There are trade offs for everything. Me, I dont care. I carefully evaluated what is offered and what I need said products to do and what I am willing to trade for it. I have lived within their restrictions pretty well and havent looked back since.

That arguement only works in limited situations.
Imagine if MS said: "We have an OS that you want to use, therefore you have to use our browser."

See.. MS got in trouble for simply bundling their browser free.. now that actually have to include competitors products. That is crazy.
Apple is going way further than MS every did by saying "We arent even going to allow you to run such and such on our system."

---
Yes, it's a slightly different situation.
You don't have to feel safe to feel unafraid.
danny e.
Maximum Gerbil
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 4371
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:09 pm
Location: Indonesia/Nebraska/Wisconsin

Next

Return to Apple Sanctuary

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron