Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Enclosures, modding, blowholes, and the power needed to run it all.

Moderators: Nemesis, SpotTheCat

Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:51 am

Sorry to ask such a noob question but I honestly don't know!
(Yes, I realise we just had a great article on the front page but this question is important)

I have a Silverstone ST60F which was reviewed really well about 4 years ago, problem is the fans die in them a LOT, so I replaced it with another 120mm fan.
Well, sadly even at the highest voltage I can put to it, the PSU still runs hot, really hot, REALLY REALLY hot.

I have 4gb (1gb dimms) E8500 underclocked to 2.5ghz, 3x 750gb drives, ATI 4870 and 2 DVD burners, that's about it!
I don't know how much this would stress the 600W silverstone but my machine is overheating nasty here, full shutdowns etc (I believe the ATI 4870 isn't helping, I'll be making another thread about that)

I need to find a very very cool running, powerful, modular supply which blows even the silverstone away.
Any suggestions?
EDIT
Sorry to crosspost but these are 2 similar topics but not exactly the same, besides I am curious about the question in the subject, anyhow here's a link to the post regarding my hot GPU
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63609

Oh the woes of PC gaming and to think I tried to buy half decent quality stuff too.
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:19 am

Seasonic (the best), corsair, Antec, Enermax.
Looks like their will be some 90+ efficient supplies comming out soon:
http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx
Increase your half open TCIP connections with the Half-open.com utility.
eric93se
Graphmaster Gerbil
 
Posts: 1263
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Home of the most reprehensible false flag attack in the world.

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:24 pm

Do they actually run cooler?
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:36 pm

AbRASiON wrote:Do they actually run cooler?

If heat is causing your instability, a new power supply is not the answer.
...
mattsteg
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 15761
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Applauding the new/old variable width forums

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:39 pm

mattsteg wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:Do they actually run cooler?

If heat is causing your instability, a new power supply is not the answer.

To answer your question, yes they will run cooler. The electricity that doesn't make it into the PC gets turned into heat.
The best things in life are free.
http://www.gentoo.org
Guy 1: Surely, you will fold with me.
Guy 2: Alright, but don't call me Shirley.
titan
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
 
Posts: 3276
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Great Smoky Mountains

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:57 pm

titan wrote:
mattsteg wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:Do they actually run cooler?

If heat is causing your instability, a new power supply is not the answer.

To answer your question, yes they will run cooler. The electricity that doesn't make it into the PC gets turned into heat.

They could still run the same temperature, if their cooling is designed to run at that temperature.

They put out less heat and use less power, both of which are good things. They may or may not run at a lower temperature. I tend to think that if you're running hot enough that it's causing problems, improved ventilation needs to be a priority more than replacing components.
...
mattsteg
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 15761
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Applauding the new/old variable width forums

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:58 pm

mattsteg wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:Do they actually run cooler?

If heat is causing your instability, a new power supply is not the answer.

Seconded
Looking for Knowledge wrote:When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
Heiwashin
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
 
Posts: 3027
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:23 pm

mattsteg wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:Do they actually run cooler?

If heat is causing your instability, a new power supply is not the answer.




Surely it may help as it helps reduce the heat?
The PSU itself even when not under load gets quite toasty - hotter than I've had any other supply run.

Curse this awesome quietening foam, it must have something to do with it.
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:26 pm

Well there's 2 types of crash, I had one yesterday where the machine just turns OFF
The PSU was so hot it was ... incredible - the temp at the back where the power switch is just blew me away.
I opened the case and the green m/b light was off - switched on / off, no go.
Unplug / re-plug the power, no go.

I had to unplug the entire machine and run a fan on the PSU then wait 5 minutes, then it worked again, I'm guessing it's overheat protection in the PSU.
My low noise (slow) fans are all cranked back to max voltage now :( still not helping enough though, clearly.
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:35 pm

0% "activity" on GPU right now (just in windows)
Fan is set to auto (it's thinking 26% is fine)
GPU temp is 68c
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&s ... it&spell=1
(154'f)

Pretty harsh just for windows
Yes it's summer in Australia but it's no more than 20c today (maybe 75'f)
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:47 pm

AbRASiON wrote:0% "activity" on GPU right now (just in windows)
Fan is set to auto (it's thinking 26% is fine)
GPU temp is 68c
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&s ... it&spell=1
(154'f)

Pretty harsh just for windows
Yes it's summer in Australia but it's no more than 20c today (maybe 75'f)

Yes, the dampening foam may increase temperature as its an insulator as well as a dampener.


mattsteg wrote:
titan wrote:To answer your question, yes they will run cooler. The electricity that doesn't make it into the PC gets turned into heat.

They could still run the same temperature, if their cooling is designed to run at that temperature.

They put out less heat and use less power, both of which are good things. They may or may not run at a lower temperature. I tend to think that if you're running hot enough that it's causing problems, improved ventilation needs to be a priority more than replacing components.

You are correct sir. My logic was flawed. I was thinking less heat output therefore cooler running.


AbRASiON wrote:Well there's 2 types of crash, I had one yesterday where the machine just turns OFF
The PSU was so hot it was ... incredible - the temp at the back where the power switch is just blew me away.
I opened the case and the green m/b light was off - switched on / off, no go.
Unplug / re-plug the power, no go.

I had to unplug the entire machine and run a fan on the PSU then wait 5 minutes, then it worked again, I'm guessing it's overheat protection in the PSU.
My low noise (slow) fans are all cranked back to max voltage now :( still not helping enough though, clearly.

If that's the case, then you may just need a new PSU. The PSU should never be very hot. Just very warm air being blown out by it. I doubt the dampening foam has much to do with it. Check to see if the fans are running and whether or not the vents are blocked by dust first.
The best things in life are free.
http://www.gentoo.org
Guy 1: Surely, you will fold with me.
Guy 2: Alright, but don't call me Shirley.
titan
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
 
Posts: 3276
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Great Smoky Mountains

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:18 pm

AbRASiON wrote:
mattsteg wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:Do they actually run cooler?

If heat is causing your instability, a new power supply is not the answer.




Surely it may help as it helps reduce the heat?
The PSU itself even when not under load gets quite toasty - hotter than I've had any other supply run.

Curse this awesome quietening foam, it must have something to do with it.

Well, the psu still isn't going to be heating up the inside much, as it exhausts to the outside. Heat your room? Yes. Heat your case? Not enough to matter unless your ventilation is insufficient already. Foam shouldn't matter too much for the PSU, either, as PSUs cool themselves with airflow from inside the case to outside of the case and in many cases regulate their fans via thermostat. It probably pushes the case temp up, though.

You might happen to get a PSU that's more aggressive about cooling itself, runs more air through it, and thus reduces your temperatures, but if it's too hot in your case you're going to get a lot more progress from just improving ventilation. If your PSU is overheating, it's likely due to a failure in its cooling system or your case being way too hot, not just a PSU that runs hot.
...
mattsteg
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 15761
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Applauding the new/old variable width forums

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:28 pm

titan wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:0% "activity" on GPU right now (just in windows)
Fan is set to auto (it's thinking 26% is fine)
GPU temp is 68c
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&s ... it&spell=1
(154'f)

Pretty harsh just for windows
Yes it's summer in Australia but it's no more than 20c today (maybe 75'f)

Yes, the dampening foam may increase temperature as its an insulator as well as a dampener.


mattsteg wrote:
titan wrote:To answer your question, yes they will run cooler. The electricity that doesn't make it into the PC gets turned into heat.

They could still run the same temperature, if their cooling is designed to run at that temperature.

They put out less heat and use less power, both of which are good things. They may or may not run at a lower temperature. I tend to think that if you're running hot enough that it's causing problems, improved ventilation needs to be a priority more than replacing components.

You are correct sir. My logic was flawed. I was thinking less heat output therefore cooler running.


AbRASiON wrote:Well there's 2 types of crash, I had one yesterday where the machine just turns OFF
The PSU was so hot it was ... incredible - the temp at the back where the power switch is just blew me away.
I opened the case and the green m/b light was off - switched on / off, no go.
Unplug / re-plug the power, no go.

I had to unplug the entire machine and run a fan on the PSU then wait 5 minutes, then it worked again, I'm guessing it's overheat protection in the PSU.
My low noise (slow) fans are all cranked back to max voltage now :( still not helping enough though, clearly.

If that's the case, then you may just need a new PSU. The PSU should never be very hot. Just very warm air being blown out by it. I doubt the dampening foam has much to do with it. Check to see if the fans are running and whether or not the vents are blocked by dust first.




All the fans are running, very minimal dust, admitedyl high cost, low noise fans but lots of them (as I said, 3x 80mm, 1x120mm in the PSU itself, CPU stock intel and GPU!)
I don't like the idea of using more fans, I just paid for these high quality ones darnit.
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:31 pm

mattsteg wrote:

You might happen to get a PSU that's more aggressive about cooling itself, runs more air through it, and thus reduces your temperatures, but if it's too hot in your case you're going to get a lot more progress from just improving ventilation. If your PSU is overheating, it's likely due to a failure in its cooling system or your case being way too hot, not just a PSU that runs hot.



This PSU itself is very very very hot to touch, I've been using PC's for 15 years now and I've never felt a PSU half this temp.
I will admit, I've replaced the PSU fan with my own, only because Silverstone's have a bit of an issue with fans becoming noisy or dying completely, I put in one of those little plug things on a molex with 3 dan outputs, fast, medium, slow.
To try and get a quiet machine, I had it set to slow - big mistake.

It's now set to fast, and it's still hot, hot as can be.
Also, all fans are configured properly :( - front 2 fans suck in, all rear fans blow out the back :/
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:35 pm

A combined 42A/504W on the 12V rails should be enough to power all that stuff. Your PSU may be failing so it is not supplying enough power and the remaining components inside that seem to be holding on are doing extra work (?) so they are hot.

Just a thought.
Image
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 24524
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:33 pm

Hmmmm how can I test for a failing PSU is there an easy way to do it?

I'm tempted to buy a new PSU and an Antec Solo with some nice 92mm fans, god damn am I spending a lot of $$$ at the moment! :(
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:31 am

eric93se wrote:Seasonic (the best), corsair, Antec, Enermax.
Looks like their will be some 90+ efficient supplies comming out soon:
http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx

corsair is rebranded seasonic as i recall, and antec is not all they're cracked up to be. seasonic gets my vote; my last antec was garbage in comparison (antec trupower 430w vs seasonic 430w - antec failed / leaked caps / buzzing noise / not good power at startup whereas seasonic has been flawless).
Cyco-Dude
Gerbil First Class
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:45 am

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:55 am

You need some updates. ;)

Cyco-Dude wrote:corsair is rebranded seasonic as i recall
Not all, depending on the model. The HX line with modular cables are for sure rebranded Seasonic's. Others lines come from different OEMs.

Cyco-Dude wrote:and antec is not all they're cracked up to be. seasonic gets my vote; my last antec was garbage in comparison (antec trupower 430w vs seasonic 430w - antec failed / leaked caps / buzzing noise / not good power at startup whereas seasonic has been flawless).
The older SmartPower and TruPower were prone to failure due to bad caps (that affects the entire electronics industry, not just PSUs). The newer NeoPower line was made by Seasonic which got great reviews. Recently they have switched OEM on that line and JonnyGuru found it to be even better. The other current Antec lines are not bad these days now that they went through such massive failures. Of course enthusiasts have long memories so sometimes they are still recommending against Antec. I have an old Antec 300W and a new NeoHE 430W, both are running fine.
Image
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 24524
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:56 am

I figured something over 700w and under 280$ here.
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?mai ... &vk_sort=1
Ideally modular too with 8pin PCIE for the future.
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:21 am

AbRASiON wrote:This PSU itself is very very very hot to touch, I've been using PC's for 15 years now and I've never felt a PSU half this temp.

I think that's indicative of a different, and more serious, problem than a supply that simply blows air that's "too hot" out the back. The case of the PSU is not designed to act as a heatsink for the internals - all the cooling that the PSU requires is supposed to be supplied by the fan. If you have a PSU case that's too hot to touch for more than a few seconds, you may have other issues.

Is the PSU shell hot everywhere or just in a certain area? If the worst of the heat is fairly localized than you should consider taking the supply out right away as there may be a problem internal to the PSU. Specifically, I'm thinking about a short from some energized circuit to the shell.
This problem was caused by Windows, which was created by Microsoft Corporation.
sluggo
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:44 pm
Location: under the table and dreaming

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:58 am

The actual shell of the PSU (at the back )is hot as hell, infact it radiates heat.
Perhaps it is faulty or close to faulty - I do have a spare (non 3d) video card, perhaps I will see how hot the psu gets driving justt that
AbRASiON
Gerbil Team Leader
 
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:06 pm

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:59 am

AbRASiON wrote:
mattsteg wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:Do they actually run cooler?

If heat is causing your instability, a new power supply is not the answer.

Surely it may help as it helps reduce the heat?
The PSU itself even when not under load gets quite toasty - hotter than I've had any other supply run.

Curse this awesome quietening foam, it must have something to do with it.

Nearly all of the heat created by the PSU is supposed to go out the back of the PSU with the exhaust air. I suppose if it is running really hot like you say, and heating up the metal of the case, replacing it may help your system temps.

From your description it sounds like it is running abnormally hot to me...

Possible defective PSU aside, if the new PSU has a fan that moves more air, then it will indirectly improve your case ventilation. But if better case ventilation is all you really need, replacing the entire PSU to get it isn't exactly the most cost-effective way to get there.
(this space intentionally left blank)
just brew it!
Administrator
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 37977
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:58 am

Sounds like a defective PSU to me. How hot does the back of it get - too hot to leave a finger on?

Any 500 watt (sustained) or more PSU that is 80+ efficient should do the trick. You should be able to find a very decent PSU that will be plenty sufficient for $75-$100.
flip-mode
Gerbil Khan
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 9101
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 12:42 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:39 pm

His PSU is OLD and not listed on 80+ dot org, so it could be as low as 60% efficient, or worse. Also the fan that he put in may simply be too slow.
Increase your half open TCIP connections with the Half-open.com utility.
eric93se
Graphmaster Gerbil
 
Posts: 1263
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Home of the most reprehensible false flag attack in the world.

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:51 pm

If its as hot as you say...i wouldnt run the risk of turning the damned thing on and possibly take out a major component. Get a good one(as flip mentioned above) and you need not spend over 100 bucks. I think you have other issues. Maybe a defective or overvolted video card. If running too hot it would cause the symptoms you mention. Silverstone makes quality PSU's but all mfgrs have failures at some point.
Just an old sheepdog waiting for some nasty wolves to show...ive got more than enough teeth left.
LicketySplit
Gerbil God
 
Posts: 24535
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Soap Lake, Wa

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:00 pm

eric93se wrote:Seasonic (the best), corsair, Antec, Enermax.
Looks like their will be some 90+ efficient supplies comming out soon:
http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx


Subtract Antec from that list, who people have had large numbers of problems with.

Add PC Power & Cooling, the actual best.
Buub
Maximum Gerbil
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:59 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:47 pm

Buub wrote:
eric93se wrote:Seasonic (the best), corsair, Antec, Enermax.
Looks like their will be some 90+ efficient supplies comming out soon:
http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx


Subtract Antec from that list, who people have had large numbers of problems with.

Add PC Power & Cooling, the actual best.

Eh, things have changed a lot in 5 years in the power supply world. It's about the same, but with different major players.
SpotTheCat
Gerbilus Supremus
 
Posts: 12262
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:47 am
Location: a regular hole

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:37 am

Anyone have any experiences with PCP&C since they got bought out by OCZ? Are they still top-notch?

There seem to be a lot less complaints about Antec lately. Dunno if that's because they've gotten their issues sorted, or if fewer people are using them (I tend to think it is a bit of both).
(this space intentionally left blank)
just brew it!
Administrator
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 37977
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:07 am

just brew it! wrote:Anyone have any experiences with PCP&C since they got bought out by OCZ? Are they still top-notch?

There seem to be a lot less complaints about Antec lately. Dunno if that's because they've gotten their issues sorted, or if fewer people are using them (I tend to think it is a bit of both).

That's kind of what I was getting at. Things have changed (the major players that were great 5 years ago may have fallen (PCP&C) and the ones that were terrible then (antec) are now sourcing from what may be the best (seasonic). The thing that hasn't changed is how bad PSUs are in general.

I'm to the point with PSUs that it might not even be worth putting the dough in for a "good" unit. They all suck, it seems the failure rate in this neck of the woods is about 15% or so in the first two years, counting me and my families PSUs, and we only buy name brand stuff from PC power and cooling (just had one die, a pre-OCZ unit), seasonic and corsair (most recently, re-badged seasonic units). I suspect failure rate is about the same no matter who you buy from. I'd like a larger data set, but I'm not happy with any brand of PSUs at the moment.

I have troubleshooted 5 PSU failures this year, which is just sad. One seasonic, one pre-OCZ PCP&C, one Enermax, and two Corsair. I haven't noticed any brands that stand out on reliability, which is sad. That puts the count at two hard drives to 5 PSUs, even though we have more HDDs than PSUs. The only moving part in a PSU should be the fan!
SpotTheCat
Gerbilus Supremus
 
Posts: 12262
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:47 am
Location: a regular hole

Re: Big powerful, efficient supplies run cooler Y/N?

Postposted on Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:26 pm

I've actually toyed half-seriously with the possibility of teaching myself enough about PC PSU design to roll my own. An "if you really want it done right, you've got to do it yourself" sort of deal. I've built a few regulated power supplies in the past, but they've all been relatively low power -- nowhere near the sort of wattage (or number of rails) that a PC PSU requires.

Unfortunately, the prospect of getting it wrong and frying a PC -- or even worse, creating an electrocution hazard -- has prevented me from following through on this idea...
(this space intentionally left blank)
just brew it!
Administrator
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 37977
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Next

Return to Cases and Power Supplies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests