Lian Li Saves The Day!

Enclosures, modding, blowholes, and the power needed to run it all.

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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:27 am

I've seen the PSU over CPU thing in ITX cases- good fun there though. For mATX, yeah, a good layout would be PSU over expansion cards, allowing for SLi and a tower cooler with some decent overclocking.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:54 am

I know I've praised Lian Li in this thread a bit but their V350/V351 is an example of a really bad design decision being dragged along.

The case is truly in the "cube" form factor. It however places the PSU over top the CPU by default. This is a case that has more height than many of the other mATX cases as well. There's a rather long thread at HardForum's of many users fabricating custom back plates for this case to specifically move the PSU above the graphics card. The case's dimensions allow plenty of room to do this and thanks to the aluminum construction and general design of higher end Lian Li cases it really isn't that hard. With these brackets though you're talking about a wonderful case! But without it is is a lot less impressive.

Then there's the likes of Apevia who have the components in the right spots but for some reason place brackets or split the case into chambers making a case like the Q-Pack, that has a lot of potential, much worse. Which is a real problem for a case that is already of low quality.

Or the Raidmax (yuck) Icecube that has a great interior layout but completely COMPLETELY (ok, minus a few completely blocked holes in the front) leaves out grills of any sort! There's nearly no way for air to get into that case. It has a great design besides that. But how in the world do you miss something so basic? Isn't there some sort of checklist they have in order for a case design to even get off a napkin? Then in Raidmax tradition they manufacturer it with exposed sharp edges and thin easily bent material.

Argh!
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:02 am

I'll get a NSK3480 this week. Steel = less vibration. I'll have to bring my dvd burner to the store and check how much room I have between it and the psu.
Lian-Li and Lan-Gear look great though.

Thanks for pointing (i knew about th lian-li).
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:27 am

I've tried the other way, its nice but you don't need monster coolers anymore even at the top end.

I won't deny the retarded hard drive cage placement, which is why in almost all setups you remove it. Its sad, because if they moved it literally 3 inches toward the cpu size of the case it would not block any sata ports or expansion cards.

This case model family has a good idea going, but it needs work on the support placements...and build quality:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... rchInDesc=

Its a great uATX budget box though.


If the lanbox had an arrangement like that (which would only require about 1" taller than it is currently) along with a fixed drive cage it would be pretty close to perfect. It is possible to fix the drive cage yourself, if you are good at working steel plate without ruining it, or making your own. Ton of work though, they should just retool the stamp/die/whatever. Also WTF happened to the aluminum version :( the material they use for the front would be a drop in replacement for steel.


If you're going tower full then atx adds nearly nothing to size but a lot to motherboard choices. Almost all of the size reduction in the uATX towers is from cutting back the drive bays...no real gain in utility, layout or appearance. Half the time you have to check the back and see 4 brackets vs 7 to even know, it ends up a pointless exercise.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:14 am

Consider the smaller mATX tower type cases are only 13" tall and the smallest of full ATX cases are 16" and that's a bit of difference. Some mATX tower cases really are pointless (take Antec's Mini P180, which is ridiculously big for a mATX case) but not all. Also, there are thermal advantages to going smaller. Despite this crazy belief held by many that some how for best cooling a mid or full tower is required. People don't weigh enough importance to the direction of air and the volume of air moved to volume of case ratio.

I personally would prefer mATX. Sadly I was forced into ATX because of the poor slot configurations on motherboards (another area that blows my mind in computing on how wrong the general approach is).
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:12 am

Skyring what is your opinion about the durability of Lian Li cases if you lets say throw them in a car/truck very often? Any advice on that front?
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:29 am

A few months ago I was looking for a mATX tower (width versus height tradeoff versus 'box-style' cases.) I saw this thread when it was started but didn't bother commenting. There were none from the 'big names' that made sense to me aside from perhaps the Silverstone TJ-08 but it's not really up to Silvertone standards. What I was looking for is: space for a large twoer cooler, 120mm intake and exhaust, a few 5.25" bays, space for HDs and space for a long video card. In other words, an ATX tower-type case but with smaller dimensions both in height, obviously that's not hard for mATX, and in depth.

While there are a number of cases that fulfill those requirements I was disappointed when looking at dimensions. So many are just as big as ATX midtowers it's silly. Antec P180 Mini - nope, Lian Li mATX - nope (18" deep is silly for mATX) and I finally saw these clones from Rosewill They meet all the requirements and were ~15"x15" yay. I was skeptical because I've had a few Antec cases which have very good build quality and thought these were just cheap junk. But then this one went on sale for $20 shipped and I figured I'd bite. I am fairly pleased with the build quality, even though they use thin metal they aren't the type of case that you can sneeze on and deform, it's structurally sound. Since I mod all my cases with a dremel to at least remove fan mount restrictions cutting a bit out from the HD cage to fit a long graphics card was not a problem. It is tight when mounting components, for example the HD hangs over the mobo area a bit, but that's what you get for the compact size. I was going to add some sort of sound damping regardless so since the case was so cheap I ended up spending less total than for the few cases like the TJ-08 and ended up with exactly what I wanted.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:31 am

If you are into modding some sections of your new case, it makes sense to go with a "cheaper" brand/case. The Rosewill looks good. I was also looking for a mATX case recently and the one that caught my interest was this one from HEC-Compucase (the 6K serie).

http://hecgroupusa.com/products/pc-case ... er/6k60bs/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811121041

The inside has pretty much the same layout as the Rosewill.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:05 am

My problem with both of these cases is that there is way to much plastic. Modding generally demands a good set of materials to start your work on. Aluminum being by far the best to work with. The Rosewill also has my least favorite hard drive arrangement for a tower style case. Having a easy method to remove the cage would be nice, but at that price point I would simply remove them myself and place the hard drives in the 5.25" bays.

codedivine wrote:Skyring what is your opinion about the durability of Lian Li cases if you lets say throw them in a car/truck very often? Any advice on that front?


The traditional Lian Li case doesn't respond well to abuse. This is a function of being constructed entirely from aluminum. A material that dents easily. Lian Li does employ thicker aluminum and the designs are structurally sound. But even the smaller, more portable Lian Li cases are not designed for your purpose. Lian Li is aware of this and have a brand directed towards that market, Lancool. The Lancool cases maintain the clean, elegant look of a Lian Li case but are made from steel (and a few models have plastic faces). Specifically I would point you towards the Lian Li Lancool PC-7, very traditional Lian Li look made with steel and a nice interior layout.

Personally I just purchased the Cooler Master Storm Scout. I'm likely going to spend more money on this case than I should though as it will be modded. Step one will be replacing the side panels with ones not designed to look like shields. I might be removing the drive cage as well, though the only card of any length to be put inside is a HD5770, which should fit easily. Also need to add a few more cable holes. Cables in plain sight drive me nuts!
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:01 pm

Pasdepardon wrote:If you are into modding some sections of your new case, it makes sense to go with a "cheaper" brand/case. The Rosewill looks good. I was also looking for a mATX case recently and the one that caught my interest was this one from HEC-Compucase (the 6K serie).

http://hecgroupusa.com/products/pc-case ... er/6k60bs/

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811121041

The inside has pretty much the same layout as the Rosewill.


Well it's got fewer 3.5" bays but no need to cut anything for a longer HD, a tradeoff depending upon personal preference. But it's just got an 80mm rear fan and I would bet against fitting a 120mm on there.

Skrying wrote:My problem with both of these cases is that there is way to much plastic. Modding generally demands a good set of materials to start your work on. Aluminum being by far the best to work with. The Rosewill also has my least favorite hard drive arrangement for a tower style case. Having a easy method to remove the cage would be nice, but at that price point I would simply remove them myself and place the hard drives in the 5.25" bays.

codedivine wrote:Skyring what is your opinion about the durability of Lian Li cases if you lets say throw them in a car/truck very often? Any advice on that front?


The traditional Lian Li case doesn't respond well to abuse. This is a function of being constructed entirely from aluminum. A material that dents easily. Lian Li does employ thicker aluminum and the designs are structurally sound. But even the smaller, more portable Lian Li cases are not designed for your purpose. Lian Li is aware of this and have a brand directed towards that market, Lancool. The Lancool cases maintain the clean, elegant look of a Lian Li case but are made from steel (and a few models have plastic faces). Specifically I would point you towards the Lian Li Lancool PC-7, very traditional Lian Li look made with steel and a nice interior layout.

Personally I just purchased the Cooler Master Storm Scout. I'm likely going to spend more money on this case than I should though as it will be modded. Step one will be replacing the side panels with ones not designed to look like shields. I might be removing the drive cage as well, though the only card of any length to be put inside is a HD5770, which should fit easily. Also need to add a few more cable holes. Cables in plain sight drive me nuts!


Hmm contradictions there. First off the only thing plastic on the Rosewill cases is the front faceplate, the rest is steel. But then you go on to say that steel+plastic Lancool cases are recommendable.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:40 pm

MadManOriginal wrote:Hmm contradictions there. First off the only thing plastic on the Rosewill cases is the front faceplate, the rest is steel. But then you go on to say that steel+plastic Lancool cases are recommendable.


Context. It's really important.

The comments on plastic were specifically towards modding. The Lancool recommendation was addressed to a entirely different point. One where the question asked had nothing to do with modding. Therefore the presence of plastic isn't nearly as big of a concern to me. Not only were these all in separate paragraphs but there was a quote dividing them. It would be ridiculous to be so narrow sighted as to throw out every case that uses plastic without regard to a person's needs. What does a plastic front panel matter to someone who wouldn't be modding that area or had a reason for not wanting plastic? It wouldn't, therefore the recommendation to someone who wasn't in the situation (or at least asking from such a view in this case) including a series of case that has plastic face plates.

Plastic is a big deal if the case mods might demand you cutting it. Plastic is a real pain to work with. I don't have any plans to mod the front panel on the Storm Scout I just bought, therefore not a big deal. The Rosewill and HEC cases on the other hand are different, the fronts being plastic and appearing to need mods for air flow and noise reasons. Plastic is a big deal in that case.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:42 pm

But he's comparing the super-steel in Lian Li cases to the bottom-grade steel in Rosewill cases :).

I'm sure there's a difference in materials quality, and there has to be a difference in build quality, but given that cases are simply chassis for the real electronics, I'd have a hard time justifying a Lian Li when a Rosewill does the job- even if there's a Dremel involved.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:50 pm

Skrying wrote:Personally I just purchased the Cooler Master Storm Scout. I'm likely going to spend more money on this case than I should though as it will be modded. Step one will be replacing the side panels with ones not designed to look like shields. I might be removing the drive cage as well, though the only card of any length to be put inside is a HD5770, which should fit easily. Also need to add a few more cable holes. Cables in plain sight drive me nuts!


I really like that case- only consideration would be, as you mentioned, video card length. I wish Newegg would measure that for us- possibly stick a board and a GPU in to show off, maybe even a measurement in inches. I wouldn't 'mod' anything here either; the fans would be replaced with non-glowy Noctua or Scythe units, and a third 120mm would be added in the top 3 5.25" bays (possibly using the same Antec 900 drive bay kit that I used in my P180). Sadly, though, that thing is almost as big as a P180 too! At least it has handles.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:18 pm

@Airmantharp - yeah, the materials may not be comparable but like I said the Rosewills, despite having thin metal, are reasonably 'solid' overall. There's no overall case flex and the fit and finish is acceptable as well for what it is. They also cost like 25% of the LianLis sooo...

Skrying wrote:
MadManOriginal wrote:Hmm contradictions there. First off the only thing plastic on the Rosewill cases is the front faceplate, the rest is steel. But then you go on to say that steel+plastic Lancool cases are recommendable.


Context. It's really important.

The comments on plastic were specifically towards modding. The Lancool recommendation was addressed to a entirely different point. One where the question asked had nothing to do with modding. Therefore the presence of plastic isn't nearly as big of a concern to me. Not only were these all in separate paragraphs but there was a quote dividing them. It would be ridiculous to be so narrow sighted as to throw out every case that uses plastic without regard to a person's needs. What does a plastic front panel matter to someone who wouldn't be modding that area or had a reason for not wanting plastic? It wouldn't, therefore the recommendation to someone who wasn't in the situation (or at least asking from such a view in this case) including a series of case that has plastic face plates.

Plastic is a big deal if the case mods might demand you cutting it. Plastic is a real pain to work with. I don't have any plans to mod the front panel on the Storm Scout I just bought, therefore not a big deal. The Rosewill and HEC cases on the other hand are different, the fronts being plastic and appearing to need mods for air flow and noise reasons. Plastic is a big deal in that case.


I give that a 6.5/10 on the Skrying Weaselout scale. :D Pretty good at the usual 'sticking to what I said no matter what' overall but you make some assumptions without personal experience that the plastic needs modding (-1.0) - it doesn't need modding although that may be clone model specific, the one I got certainly doesn't and airflow 'restriction' is about the same as your Lian Li example and other cases that use a mesh-type face, try looking closer at the bottom front it's a series of offset vertical slits. For *not* sticking to your plan by getting a 19x19" 'mid'tower (and after saying the P180 mini is huge, talk about a change of plans!) you get -2.0. The additional 0.5 is because no one gets a 10.0 :lol:

In any case (pun intended! :P) what's so hard about cutting plastic? Sure, trying to add or change what's there is beyond typical mechanical modding but plastic is easier to cut than metal with simple hand tools as long as you aren't a seizure-prone monkey with no manual dexterity.

Golly here I was posting in this thread trying to be helpful and point out some additional options from personal experience and it still ends up with a stupid argument with Skry-'my uninformed opinion is fact'-ing.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:15 pm

MadManOriginal wrote:I give that a 6.5/10 on the Skrying Weaselout scale. :D Pretty good at the usual 'sticking to what I said no matter what' overall but you make some assumptions without personal experience that the plastic needs modding (-1.0) - it doesn't need modding although that may be clone model specific, the one I got certainly doesn't and airflow 'restriction' is about the same as your Lian Li example and other cases that use a mesh-type face, try looking closer at the bottom front it's a series of offset vertical slits.


The plastic creates turbulence which creates noise. That why I would mod the front of the case and likely add a mesh filter. Pasdepardon mentioned these at good cases for a modding start point. I specifically noted the amount of plastic (a lot on the front) wouldn't make them very ideal for that purpose. Hence the context and speaking of those cases within the light of modding.

Additionally you're bringing the Lian Li into a different conversation than it was intended. I thought it was quite clear that the Lian Li conversation was one entirely separate from the modding conversation, I guess I was mistaken. To codedivine I talked about the issues of the all aluminum cases Lian Li makes in specific reference to moving them around often. I mentioned they have a Lancool brand made specifically for the LAN goer. I did mention some of those models have plastic to state what these cases were made out of instead of the traditional all aluminum case made by Lian Li. It wasn't a modding comment. Again, I thought this was perfectly clear given that I separated the conversations through use of quoting codedivine.

For *not* sticking to your plan by getting a 19x19" 'mid'tower (and after saying the P180 mini is huge, talk about a change of plans!) you get -2.0. The additional 0.5 is because no one gets a 10.0 :lol:


First, the Mini P180 comments on it being huge have always be within the context of it only being able to house a mATX motherboard. In the grand scheme of cases from mITX to extended ATX it isn't that large. But for only housing a mATX case it is large. This is the general consensus for the case, just take a look at the SilentPC Review conclusion for similar opinions.

Second, I was forced into going to a larger case due to the slot configurations on mATX motherboards using the 785G chipset from MSI, Asus and Gigabyte. None of the boards offered from those manufacturers had the slots I needed. So I had to move up in size. I went with the Storm Scout over smaller ATX cases for portability reasons. Take a case like the NSK4480 from Antec. One of the smaller ATX cases. The Storm Scout is a good 3" deeper and taller but it has a handle which makes it easier to carry. The Storm Scout also has a number of other features that make it superior and more fitting to my changed needs. Specifically the greater amount of 5.25" to place hard drives in should in the future I need to remove the hard drive cages for graphics card length reasons. Also the hole behind CPU socket in the Storm Scout and other cable management holes not found in the Antec.

If you wanted to know why I changed my plans all you had to do was ask. But as you typically do with me you attacked first.

In any case (pun intended! :P) what's so hard about cutting plastic? Sure, trying to add or change what's there is beyond typical mechanical modding but plastic is easier to cut than metal with simple hand tools as long as you aren't a seizure-prone monkey with no manual dexterity.


There's more to modding than cutting. It's a potential issue. Beyond cutting, such as painting, screwing, or whatever plastic is increasingly more difficult to work with. I rather work with steel or aluminum than plastic. If I purchased a case specifically for modding I don't want a low potential ceiling.

Golly here I was posting in this thread trying to be helpful and point out some additional options from personal experience and it still ends up with a stupid argument with Skry-'my uninformed opinion is fact'-ing.


An argument you started. You said there was contradictions in my post. I new there was trouble as soon as I saw you quoted my entire post instead of the part pointed towards you. I knew you would take whatever I said out of context. You've done this numerous times. I've asked you to stop but you've continued to do so. I don't have much more left to do other than to try to explain what I said line by line to you.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:22 pm

Skrying wrote:
The traditional Lian Li case doesn't respond well to abuse. This is a function of being constructed entirely from aluminum. A material that dents easily. Lian Li does employ thicker aluminum and the designs are structurally sound. But even the smaller, more portable Lian Li cases are not designed for your purpose. Lian Li is aware of this and have a brand directed towards that market, Lancool. The Lancool cases maintain the clean, elegant look of a Lian Li case but are made from steel (and a few models have plastic faces). Specifically I would point you towards the Lian Li Lancool PC-7, very traditional Lian Li look made with steel and a nice interior layout.



Checked out some of the Lancool models on your suggestion. They are amazingly feature-rich for the price! Thanks for the recommendation.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:43 pm

lol. I love you Skrying, you're the stradivarius to my Itzhak Perlman.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:03 pm

MadManOriginal wrote:lol. I love you Skrying, you're the stradivarius to my Itzhak Perlman.


Clever.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:45 am

I use the Thermaltake lanbox lite and Overall I am happy with it. Other than removing the Power supply rack takes 6 small screws it is a nice, neat case. Full size psu and gpu in a small form factor. Not too expensive either.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:20 pm

Saw the a05n in this thread. Does the front mounted psu interfere with airflow ? What if the fan is on the top?

image reference:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Lian ... 05N/6.html
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:31 pm

yes wrote:Saw the a05n in this thread. Does the front mounted psu interfere with airflow ? What if the fan is on the top?

image reference:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Lian ... 05N/6.html


How would the front mounted PSU interfere with airflow? There's a 120mm fan mounted directly in front of the hard drive cage. Why would the fan be on top? You can rotate the PSU either way. The A05n's biggest airflow issue is the lack of airflow movement in the top corner near the expansion slots. The A05 is a case where a exhausting graphics card shows noticeable advantages over ones that do not because of the lack of air flow in that corner.
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Re: Lian Li Saves The Day!

Postposted on Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:04 am

I was thinking a psu with the fan mounted on top would have its airflow blocked by the hdd cages, seems theres little space inbetween them.
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