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ronch
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Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:30 am

Most of our PCs here use AMD CPUs. Thing is, I notice that AMD CPUs, over time, tend to run hotter. Way back in September 2007 I built a PC with an X2 4800. After about 7 months the PC just shuts down, indicating an overheating problem. Then in October 2008 I bought another PC, this time with an X2 5000. Now it's exhibiting the same problem. Then just last night, my AMD Turion X2 (Acer) laptop shut down abruptly. It's been with me for 27 months. I checked the temp with Core Temp and saw temps at around 60C, and that's at idle!

Three processors overheating!!!

Now, I obviously like AMD but if this keeps up, hello Intel.

Is anyone else having this problem?
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:52 am

Phenom II X3 720 here.
Gaming + (was) Folding and found no issue.
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potatochobit
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:05 am

the most likely cause is a bad overclock

you dont notice it in the summer because that is when everyone runs the AC cool

then in winter you turn up the heater and...

BAM!

your laptop most likey is shutting down because you do not keep it clean
open up the CPU tray and blow out the dust from the heat sink

other causes
cheap motheboards dont hold voltage correctly over time
ram fails overtime
the coffee you spilled on the computer actually did do something
vacuum out the inside of your CPU case
CPU is getting old, 2 years is actually quite old in computer tech
stop putting more CRAP on your OS
thermal grease and heat sink need to be reapplied and cleaned
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:46 am

ronch wrote:
Is anyone else having this problem?


Nope. I used a Windsor X2 4200+ inside a case with only one fan, plus stock cooling, in Texas during summer, and never saw any fluctuation in temperature ever the course of three years. The common link seems to be you.
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Zoomastigophora
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:04 am

If your house has pets like cats or dogs, or is just particularly dusty, you need to clean out your computer on a regular basis. It's recommended that you clean out your computer at least every 6 months, but in houses with lots of pet dander or dust, you need to do it more frequently. Build up of gunk inside the computer will negatively impact cooling effectiveness, especially dust buildup on the CPU heatsink. Laptops in particular are sensitive to lack of cleaning since there's usually a single fan exhausting heat out a single port for the entire system so if you've never cleaned out your laptop in 2 years, I can imagine why it's idling at 60C.
 
cass
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:05 am

You have a cooling problem, not a processor problem.

Before said machines ever went into service you did take the heat sink off the procs and remount after lapping everything and using some good heat sink grease or paste right? If you didn't thats problem number 1.

Next, all the greases and pastes I have tried so far turn to hard soap like stuff after several months to a year, so you may have to reapply once in a while.

Now we get to the main problems... Fans and Dirt. I have tried every fan I could reasonably buy and they all quit in my harsh service environment in less than two years. Most don't make it six months. When my machines start acting up I pour the dirt out of them blow whats left out then remount all the heatsinks on NB (or whatever the part of the chipset is that has heatsinks now), the cpu, the gpu, and then replace the psu fans. I completely take the machines here at home apart every 3-6 months and clean out, and the ones at work I have to do every month... I don't even run covers on them anymore, its just to much hassle. Most machines I work on for other people come in with lint/dust clogging stuff up, and a lot of times with a fan locked up. I do have some severe cases where I take the Motherboard out and wash it in the sink with soap and water, but thats a big hassle and my wife doesn't like me drying them in the oven overnight. The computer I am typing on right now has a psu less than six months old, and the psu fan is already bad (when I restarted it over last weekend the fan had a death scream and I had to kick strart it for it to spin up. This will be the third psu in two years, and fourth gpu, and this computer is in my house where the temp doesn't vary that much and the air is filtered/conditioned to some degree. just so you know that will be two nvidias, and two amd's so brand doesn't seem to matter when it comes to gpu's melting down.

I have had some motherboards fail, and most of the time its a visible capacitor swelling. Motherboards run anywhere from a couple months to 3 years just kind of depends on the quality.

I have had some of the socket 775 intel mickey mouse plastic push clips to break and cause problems, but Its easy to fix and I have not had any permanent damage to a proc made in the last several years from overheating running stock settings whether or not the Heat sink is even on it, because they will throttle down/turn off with too much heat.

Just calm down and start looking for whats impeding heat transfer/air flow.

Laptops and gpu's are the absolute biggest pieces of crap out there right now when it comes to long life cooling. I don't even attempt to use a factory gpu cooler unless its got a large fan on it... the dust busters are just a cooling catastrophe waiting to happen, because it takes so little to block the air where it comes off the fan and starts across the fins. Laptops have the same problem with small passages that get blocked easily.
 
Zoomastigophora
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:16 am

cass wrote:
Before said machines ever went into service you did take the heat sink off the procs and remount after lapping everything and using some good heat sink grease or paste right? If you didn't thats problem number 1.

That's a bit extreme. The thermal pad that comes with most stock heatsinks is fine and has the advantage of not having to worry about applying it wrong. Similarly, lapping is generally not necessary unless you're looking to get that extra 1-3 degrees of cooling for whatever reason.

cass wrote:
Next, all the greases and pastes I have tried so far turn to hard soap like stuff after several months to a year, so you may have to reapply once in a while.

I don't think it's a problem if the paste hardens over time, but I could be wrong. You do need to reapply it if it hardens and you need to remount the heatsink, that's for sure.

cass wrote:
Now we get to the main problems... Fans and Dirt. ...

Holy wow :o. What kind of environment are you in that you would get that high of a turnover rate with fans?

But yea, a clean out every month using compressed air is a good preventative measure to avoid having cleaning become a huge ordeal. I waited too long to clean out my computer last time and had to rebuild the entire thing to get it clean. I figure I might as well just save myself the hassle and clean it out every month and only having to take out the GPU instead of the whole system.
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:42 am

From my own experience, I've found that a laptop cooler keeps laptops a whole lot cooler when working in a relatively stationary environment. Heat is probably the number one killer of laptops of any kind.

For a desktop PC, installing fan filters and maintaining net positive airflow (intake fan cfm > exhaust fan cfm) helps keep my computer insides dust free. Cleaning dust is very easy as the only place you'll really encounter it is in the filters.
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:28 am

I've built lots of AMD machines for myself as well as friends and families over the years. I have noticed that ones with stock cooler did run warmer after a year on out due to the paste deteriorating but never that hot. The ones I built for myself using larger performance coolers and Arctic Silver varied a little over time but nothing drastic. My last two boxes have been Intel with aftermarket coolers with the same result.

As others have said, pull the cooler and be sure the fins and fan are clean of dust and debri. Wipe off the thermal paste with alcohol and use some good quality aftermarket paste and put the cooler back. A friend in Florida had a similar issue with this old Athlon XP and this worked great for him. I can't imagine a cpu from Intel or AMD (more than a very rare occasion anyway) running hot with good cooling unless its been overvolted for a long period of time.

Keep us posted and good luck ! Don't give up on the green team yet ! :)
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:45 am

A lot of it's dependant on environment. Dust build up is proportionally worse in areas where people smoke, or near to areas where woodworking occurs or similar things. You should probably considering dusting out the insides of a stock PC at least once a year, possibly more.
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:01 am

I've owned over a dozen AMD-based systems, going back to the K6 days. Probably closer to two dozen, if you count the F@h crate farms. The only overheating problems I've had have been due to failed CPU coolers (dead fan); furthermore all of the failed coolers were aftermarket (not AMD retail).

My primary desktops (home and work) are currently both AMD-based (a Phenom X4 and an Athlon X2, respectively). The heatsinks get warm, but not even close to what I'd call hot, even under heavy load. Both systems are rock-solid stable, and stay up for weeks at a time.

As someone else already noted, you don't have a CPU problem; you have a cooling problem.
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FuturePastNow
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:03 am

You need to blow the dust out of the heatsinks, silly.
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:00 pm

Zoomastigophora wrote:
Holy wow :o. What kind of environment are you in that you would get that high of a turnover rate with fans?


My work machines 2x amd X2's, and a socket 775 e6300 are in a Fab/cnc machine shop. They are on the floor right next to where the action is. we cover the screen with card board or turn them around to keep from getting damage due to grinding dust, flying hot chips, etc. If they paint inside the machines suck paint overspray, they are always sucking dirt from forklift traffic, and mist from mist cooler overspray. There is no airconditioning so whatever the temp is, they get. That ranges from 11 degrees F (documented inside this winter) to over 120 in the summer. I tried the fanless gpu's, but they just melt down in the summer without a fan anyway, so now I just buy with big coolers or add a big cooler, and if it runs hot stock I have to avoid it all together.

Every processor here runs at least 10% OC with the amd's running 20% and they don't give a problem till the heat sink/fans plug up. Psu's melt down regularly, because you don't get much warning, the fans stops and it melts down and quits. Yeah, I could buy a $100 PSU (with thermal protection) and replace the fan, but I can't quit buying the $15.00 supplies. I have bought a couple better supplies lately, and they seem to fare better. I like buying Psu's in case quantities (10 or 12), and the nice supplies drain $ quickly 10 and 12 at a time.

Zoomastigophora wrote:
cass wrote:
Before said machines ever went into service you did take the heat sink off the procs and remount after lapping everything and using some good heat sink grease or paste right? If you didn't thats problem number 1.

That's a bit extreme. The thermal pad that comes with most stock heatsinks is fine and has the advantage of not having to worry about applying it wrong. Similarly, lapping is generally not necessary unless you're looking to get that extra 1-3 degrees of cooling for whatever reason.


Personally I don't think the Pad is OK. I didn't buy a Dell, and I am not going to assemble my custom machines like a $7/hr Dell monkey either. I will assemble it the best I can with the best care I know how to give it at the time. It takes less than ten minutes to stone a factory heat spreader and heat sink to make sure there are no dings/bumps and that's What I do to avoid problems. Sure you don't have to, but If you are now having problems out of a machine cooling wise, go ahead and cover the bases.
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:10 pm

cass wrote:
It takes less than ten minutes to stone a factory heat spreader and heat sink to make sure there are no dings/bumps and that's What I do to avoid problems. Sure you don't have to, but If you are now having problems out of a machine cooling wise, go ahead and cover the bases.

I, uh, don't think that counts as a "base" for those of us not working in CNC fab shops...
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:36 pm

ronch wrote:
Most of our PCs here use AMD CPUs. Thing is, I notice that AMD CPUs, over time, tend to run hotter. Way back in September 2007 I built a PC with an X2 4800. After about 7 months the PC just shuts down, indicating an overheating problem. Then in October 2008 I bought another PC, this time with an X2 5000. Now it's exhibiting the same problem. Then just last night, my AMD Turion X2 (Acer) laptop shut down abruptly. It's been with me for 27 months. I checked the temp with Core Temp and saw temps at around 60C, and that's at idle!

Three processors overheating!!!

Now, I obviously like AMD but if this keeps up, hello Intel.

Is anyone else having this problem?


Overtime, dust tends to accumulate in CPU heatsink/fans. You probably have that issue. Clean it and it will be good for another year or two.
Disclaimer: I over-analyze everything, so try not to be offended if I over-analyze something you wrote.
 
lex-ington
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:37 pm

I have owned quite a few AMD CPU's and have built quite a few as well. To date I have had two machines go down from dead fans. I don't expect heat issues from either camp cause that is very damaging to both of their images.
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Shining Arcanine
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:06 pm

lex-ington wrote:
I have owned quite a few AMD CPU's and have built quite a few as well. To date I have had two machines go down from dead fans. I don't expect heat issues from either camp cause that is very damaging to both of their images.


Didn't the K6 have heat issues?
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FuturePastNow
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:13 am

I wonder if the radial design of Intel's heatsinks just accumulates dust more slowly. Have to think about that.
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:30 am

I give my PCs' heatsinks a shot of air to blow out the dust about once a year.

I favor large low-rpm fans over small high-speed units. The least reliable fans are those tiny 40mm models on some northbridge or small GPU heatsinks.

I buy only quality power supplies. I have experienced a 100% failure rate with cheap (e.g.: Deer, Allied, Ultra, etc.) power supplies.
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:16 am

Shining Arcanine wrote:
Didn't the K6 have heat issues?

The later (higher clocked) 25 nm ones did get pretty toasty, but were still quite low power by modern standards. TDPs of the fastest K6-IIIs maxed out at around 30 watts; and yes some of the HSFs that were around back then weren't quite up to the task of cooling a 30 W chip. A bigger issue was that many Socket 7 motherboards couldn't supply 30 W to the CPU socket, resulting in either an unstable system, or fried voltage regulators.

When they finally moved the K6-x to 18 nm, power usage dropped drastically (the chips could even run with passive cooling). But by the time that happened the Athlon was already out, so the 18 nm K6-x chips are now little more than a footnote. (I owned a couple of 18 nm K6-III+ systems for many years; they were very fast for a Socket 7 system, cool-running, and rock-solid stable.)
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:38 am

just brew it! wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
Didn't the K6 have heat issues?

The later (higher clocked) 25 nm ones did get pretty toasty [...]

25 nm? Now that's advanced. :P
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:42 am

Meadows wrote:
25 nm? Now that's advanced. :P

It was... for 1998! :wink:
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JustAnEngineer
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:49 pm

0.25 µm = 250 nm
0.18 µm = 180 nm
 
Hance
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:46 pm

ronch wrote:
Most of our PCs here use AMD CPUs. Thing is, I notice that AMD CPUs, over time, tend to run hotter. Way back in September 2007 I built a PC with an X2 4800. After about 7 months the PC just shuts down, indicating an overheating problem. Then in October 2008 I bought another PC, this time with an X2 5000. Now it's exhibiting the same problem. Then just last night, my AMD Turion X2 (Acer) laptop shut down abruptly. It's been with me for 27 months. I checked the temp with Core Temp and saw temps at around 60C, and that's at idle!

Three processors overheating!!!

Now, I obviously like AMD but if this keeps up, hello Intel.

Is anyone else having this problem?


If you are having problems then they are caused by you. I have never had a problem with any processor overheating.
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:39 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
0.25 µm = 250 nm
0.18 µm = 180 nm

D'oh! Dropped a decimal place there. :oops:
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Shining Arcanine
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:07 pm

Hance wrote:
ronch wrote:
Most of our PCs here use AMD CPUs. Thing is, I notice that AMD CPUs, over time, tend to run hotter. Way back in September 2007 I built a PC with an X2 4800. After about 7 months the PC just shuts down, indicating an overheating problem. Then in October 2008 I bought another PC, this time with an X2 5000. Now it's exhibiting the same problem. Then just last night, my AMD Turion X2 (Acer) laptop shut down abruptly. It's been with me for 27 months. I checked the temp with Core Temp and saw temps at around 60C, and that's at idle!

Three processors overheating!!!

Now, I obviously like AMD but if this keeps up, hello Intel.

Is anyone else having this problem?


If you are having problems then they are caused by you. I have never had a problem with any processor overheating.


Perhaps he applied too much thermal paste in addition to not cleaning the heatsink.
Disclaimer: I over-analyze everything, so try not to be offended if I over-analyze something you wrote.
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:50 am

When I install CPU's I usually give a good push down ontop of the heatsink before locking it into place. I find this to be a good practice for removing extra thermal-paste.....though some do consider it "wasteful"
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:27 am

StuG wrote:
When I install CPU's I usually give a good push down ontop of the heatsink before locking it into place. I find this to be a good practice for removing extra thermal-paste.....though some do consider it "wasteful"


There is a great deal of pressure on the motherboard because of the heatsink installation. Are you not concerned that you might break the motherboard by applying additional pressure?
Disclaimer: I over-analyze everything, so try not to be offended if I over-analyze something you wrote.
 
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:19 am

Shining Arcanine wrote:
StuG wrote:
When I install CPU's I usually give a good push down ontop of the heatsink before locking it into place. I find this to be a good practice for removing extra thermal-paste.....though some do consider it "wasteful"

There is a great deal of pressure on the motherboard because of the heatsink installation. Are you not concerned that you might break the motherboard by applying additional pressure?

If you install the CPU before putting the motherboard in the case this is not a concern.
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Re: Overheating AMD processors

Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:47 am

StuG wrote:
When I install CPU's I usually give a good push down ontop of the heatsink before locking it into place. I find this to be a good practice for removing extra thermal-paste.....though some do consider it "wasteful"

It is not "wasteful" in the sense that you are squeezing unnecessary paste out of the main contact area. In the end do you want too much paste in between affecting heat conductivity, or a little bit of paste? I think in most if not all cases any user will take a cooler running CPU.
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