another example of how hot IVY runs

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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:52 am

Ifalna wrote:There is no point.
He was a little mixed up, I think, but again, if you try to catch his meaning, he's saying that if you had a magical chip made of superconducting material then you wouldn't need a heatsink. What I think he's mixed up on is the fact that the instruction efficiency of the circuit has nothing to do with this, rather, it is the physics of the circuit itself. I dunno. I think that's what he was saying.
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:15 pm

Any equipment that measures the current and voltage that goes into the machine will tell you how much heat the system dissipates.


So If I put 220V and 2 Amps into an electric motor it dissipates 440W of heat. Thanks, I didn't know that...
That obviously trivial example aside: I'm not really sure that heat is the only thing inside a semiconductor, that the electrical energy is used for.

BTW: We're not discussing the volts/amps here, all I wanted to say was:
You cant label a CPU as "less efficient" as another CPU solely based on a temperature reading. oO

@Flip,mode: I think it's possible that he meant that.
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:31 pm

Ifalna wrote:You cant label a CPU as "less efficient" as another CPU solely based on a temperature reading. oO

Well you're absolutely correct on that point.
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:49 pm

Ifalna wrote:So If I put 220V and 2 Amps into an electric motor it dissipates 440W of heat. Thanks, I didn't know that...
That obviously trivial example aside: I'm not really sure that heat is the only thing inside a semiconductor, that the electrical energy is used for.


Heat is the only thing inside a semiconductor that the electrical energy is "used for." There is no mechanical work done in a transistor. If you don't believe me, check the below list of the different forms of energy and suggest one which the electrical energy may be converting to inside of the processor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forms_of_energy
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:59 pm

flip-mode wrote:
vargis14 wrote: I for one will not be upgrading to ivy bridge the performance gains are minimal compared to my 2600k
You deserve this: Duh! :roll:


Seriously. You'd have to be some kind of moron to upgrade every generation.

As for Ivy, I don't actually care... but I'm going to wait for launch reviews before making any judgments.
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:36 am

When i built my sandy setup it was with the knowledge that ivy would be compatible with the same socket.And with such a dramatic dies shrink i was expecting more from ivy,i do not think i am alone in that respect.
I did not plan to upgrade blindly.Besides if ivy was a lot better i would have sold my 2600k after grabbing a ivy chip making the upgrade cost minimal.
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:53 am

vargis14 wrote: with such a dramatic dies shrink i was expecting more from ivy,i do not think i am alone in that respect.
It does seem that Intel may be having more trouble with this new manufacturing process than usual, but then again with the new "tri-gate" circuitry it's not a "typical" process shrink either, if there even is such a thing.
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:00 pm

Link - Overclocks.com thinks that the TIM could be causing the high temperatures seen.
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:31 pm

integer wrote:Link - Overclocks.com thinks that the TIM could be causing the high temperatures seen.


Great find INTEGER!!! It seems like that is the most likely cause of the high temps and mediocre overclocks.
On another thread i started for a Ivy Bridge Cooler shootout article request. link: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=81504 I mentioned removing the IHS and mounting the cooler right on the naked die.Like on the AMD bartons, Pentium Ms and still naked AMD GPUs.But after googleing it i found that more people damaged there cpu or gpu just removing the IHS.The few that did succeed has pretty dramatic cooling improvements like a gtx 480 a 5600+ a P4 willy.
Some say the die is not flat enough to mount a heatsink.But complete wafers of completed cpu dies have a mirror finish and look pretty dang flat to me. Maybe having 4 stiff rubber/or silicone spacers on all 4 corners of cpu die package could make applying a efficient cooler safer or even ATIs/AMDs GPU spacer square,anything that would keep the cooler level on the cpu die.After all that is all that needs to be cooled.
I did know the sandy IHS was soldered on and dropped the subject.But this is very interesting.

As for whoever was perturbed by me,or though i was ignorant since i was thinking about upgrading to Ivy over my 2600k.I just want you all to know i built this system knowing i could put ivy in down the road since intel made that clear soon after or when sandy was released that they were going to stick with the 1155 package and so on.Does that make me ignorant or obtuse to think a little ahead.
I do not know how my OP made people running on older systems mad.For the record that was not my intention at all.
But if ivy was to hit 6ghz+ on water or a great air cooler I am sure a good amount of people would sell there 2500/2600ks to by a 6+ghz cpu for very cheap once you consider you can get more then 150$ for a 2600k used.Would that not be a great affordable upgrade?
I would also like to add that tons of SB cpus hit 5+ ghz on Air alone.I also thought with the shrink to 22nm would let IB hit the 6+ghz on air also.Now with Integers find that the IHS is not soldered to the die like SB i think intel did it on purpose so we could not hit 6+ghzs on air.Its almost like Intel put a resistor compound on ivys IHS to keep temps high enough so they don't make SB-E platform get smoked by a much more affordable quad core cpu.
Anyone with a Promethia mach 1 or 2 to get the cold to the die can now have a 6500mhz screamer from what i have seem with subzero clocking on the Ivys
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:59 pm

Wow..98c..thats very very high indeed. Maybe they got a bad board for testing? :-p
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Re: another example of how hot IVY runs

Postposted on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:13 pm

Given Ivy's significantly smaller die, one would think that less surface area, even with lower power draw, could easily yield higher measured temperatures, even with all other things such as motherboard and settings being equal.

The real tell is the power draw though, as the CPU can't emit more heat out than it draws power in! And since those numbers are already upon us, we can be certain that Ivy is actually cooler than Sandy.

The concern that follows is the overclocked power usage, but I think that is more a function of Ivy's low-power optimizations, meaning that it requires such a large boost in voltage to properly overclock that it winds up drawing significantly more power than most were expecting; thing is, from what I've seen, it still follows the square increase in power draw with linear increase of voltage rule.
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