Help with CPU choice

Discussion of all forms of processors, from AMD to Intel to VIA.

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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:32 pm

That the point I was trying to make Captain. I just gave a couple examples. Trying to be helpful....not mean in any way at all.
Plus a titan does not even pull 300 watts....around 288 from what I have seen.
2600k HT on@4705mhz 8gb Cas9 1600 mem 2x EVGA GTX770 4gb Classified cards in SLI @1320 mhz core and 2003 mhz mem,mounted in CM HAF922 with a TX-850 PSU 2xHTPC's 2xi3 2120 3.3ghz dual core,1xasus LP HD6570 1xHIS hd7750@1150core1325mem,55"PanyVT30
vargis14
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:36 am

vargis14 wrote:I googled the 770 and saw that 42 amps on the 12 volt rail. I just cannot believe at 100% load the video card alone could pull 42 amps I am almost positive that is for the whole system considering a corsair tx650v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 53 amps and has 2 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors and could easily power pretty much any single CPU and GPU.
The corsair tx750v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 62 amps and has 4 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors could SLI a pair of 770s with your cpu.

Also for reference The corsair tx850v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 70 amps and has 4 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors.
This is the current PSU I am using with 2 heavily overclocked 965 core 2400 mem @1.075 volts from 822 core and 2003 mem @1.025 volts 560 ti cards in SLI with a overclocked 2600k between 4.5 and 4.9 ghz depending on winter or summer for well over 2 years.
And that's with Nvidia saying a single 560ti need 30 amps and 170 watts on the 12 volt rails and I am using 2 of them overclocked a good 20% so you can say i a pulling 36 amps or better along with 205 watts or better x2 so that would put me at 72 amps 2 amps over my PSU's limit. I just added 20% to the power since i am using more then stock voltage and a 20% increase in core and memory speed, But it is probably 25% perhaps higher then that since when you overclock it greatly increases leakage and power draw once you add voltage and overclock MHZ.... Plus that does not include my 2600k @ 1.3+ volts 4500mhz+ 3x 2tb HDD, 1 SSD, 1 AIO 120mm liquid cooing system with a pump, 5x 120mm fans, 2x 200mm fans and a lighted USB Black widow ultimate keyboard and matching Imperator mouse. Also my PSU's 140mm fan is heat controlled and it rarely turns on ..in fact I have to clean my PC every 3 months from dust buildup on all my 200mm, 120mm fans and GPU fans etc. But my PSU fan is always clean so I do not even think it comes on. Since it only turns on when it gets hot enough.

I figured it might help you decide since NVIDIA and AMD greatly inflate there power requirements for there video cards. My 560 tis are built on a 40nm process with a 360mm squared die with 1950 million transistors. The gtx 770 are built on a 28nm process with a 294mm squared die with 3540 million transistors and a peak power consumption of 230 watts. For comparisons sake A sandy Bridge-E 3970x with 4x4gb quad channel memory @ 4800mhz "wow":) system with a GTX 770 fully loaded on crysis 3 with max settings @ 2560x1440 the WHOLE system pulls only 475 watts. Under a 2d idle It pulls 225 watts from the wall socket. So the actual wattage pulled is a good 10-25% less once you consider efficiency of the PSU itself converting 120v to 12v. Below is the link to the article.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphi ... html#sect1

I hope this helps in some way and makes some sense :)

Also 90 to 100 amps is all that is needed for a mig welder that runs off of 115 volts so 42 amps from a 770 card alone, I highly doubt it.



Thank-You Some very good information. It sure sounds like NVIDIA and AMD inflate there power requirements.I have a TX 750. It's 62 amps on the +12 rail, and 1 year old. The fan on that psu will cycle down on low loads, but never turn off. Its designed that way. Older version. It's connected to a Antec DF 85 using 7 fans, not counting the two on a 212 Evo. Overclocked FX 6300 @ 4.5g , ssd, 4 hdd's, 2 dvd burners, fan controller, sound card, nic card, and a 660 SC. The power supply has run great for the last year 24/7.

In my other pc I have a Corsair TX 650 V2. That Fan does cycle on heat. It's basically a thermal overload switch.Weird. A thermal overload is normally a fail safe switch, not a activation switch. In HVAC terms, on a compressor it works that way. I guess there designed to work either way.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:51 am

silentvoices wrote:
vargis14 wrote:I googled the 770 and saw that 42 amps on the 12 volt rail. I just cannot believe at 100% load the video card alone could pull 42 amps I am almost positive that is for the whole system considering a corsair tx650v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 53 amps and has 2 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors and could easily power pretty much any single CPU and GPU.
The corsair tx750v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 62 amps and has 4 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors could SLI a pair of 770s with your cpu.

Also for reference The corsair tx850v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 70 amps and has 4 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors.
This is the current PSU I am using with 2 heavily overclocked 965 core 2400 mem @1.075 volts from 822 core and 2003 mem @1.025 volts 560 ti cards in SLI with a overclocked 2600k between 4.5 and 4.9 ghz depending on winter or summer for well over 2 years.
And that's with Nvidia saying a single 560ti need 30 amps and 170 watts on the 12 volt rails and I am using 2 of them overclocked a good 20% so you can say i a pulling 36 amps or better along with 205 watts or better x2 so that would put me at 72 amps 2 amps over my PSU's limit. I just added 20% to the power since i am using more then stock voltage and a 20% increase in core and memory speed, But it is probably 25% perhaps higher then that since when you overclock it greatly increases leakage and power draw once you add voltage and overclock MHZ.... Plus that does not include my 2600k @ 1.3+ volts 4500mhz+ 3x 2tb HDD, 1 SSD, 1 AIO 120mm liquid cooing system with a pump, 5x 120mm fans, 2x 200mm fans and a lighted USB Black widow ultimate keyboard and matching Imperator mouse. Also my PSU's 140mm fan is heat controlled and it rarely turns on ..in fact I have to clean my PC every 3 months from dust buildup on all my 200mm, 120mm fans and GPU fans etc. But my PSU fan is always clean so I do not even think it comes on. Since it only turns on when it gets hot enough.

I figured it might help you decide since NVIDIA and AMD greatly inflate there power requirements for there video cards. My 560 tis are built on a 40nm process with a 360mm squared die with 1950 million transistors. The gtx 770 are built on a 28nm process with a 294mm squared die with 3540 million transistors and a peak power consumption of 230 watts. For comparisons sake A sandy Bridge-E 3970x with 4x4gb quad channel memory @ 4800mhz "wow":) system with a GTX 770 fully loaded on crysis 3 with max settings @ 2560x1440 the WHOLE system pulls only 475 watts. Under a 2d idle It pulls 225 watts from the wall socket. So the actual wattage pulled is a good 10-25% less once you consider efficiency of the PSU itself converting 120v to 12v. Below is the link to the article.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphi ... html#sect1

I hope this helps in some way and makes some sense :)

Also 90 to 100 amps is all that is needed for a mig welder that runs off of 115 volts so 42 amps from a 770 card alone, I highly doubt it.



Thank-You Some very good information. It sure sounds like NVIDIA and AMD inflate there power requirements, but not sure about the GTX 770. I have a TX 750. It's 62 amps on the +12 rail, and 1 year old. The fan on that psu will cycle down on low loads, but never turn off. Its designed that way. Older version. It's connected to a Antec DF 85 using 7 fans, not counting the two on a 212 Evo. Overclocked FX 6300 @ 4.5g , ssd, 4 hdd's, 2 dvd burners, fan controller, sound card, nic card, and a 660 SC. That power supply has run great for the last year 24/7.

In my other pc I have a Corsair TX 650 V2. That Fan does cycle on heat. It's basically a thermal overload switch.Weird. A thermal overload is normally a fail safe switch, not a activation switch. In HVAC terms, on a compressor it works that way. If the compressor does not turn off, or gets to hot, the overload switch will trip, and break the circuit. I guess there designed to work either way.
Last edited by silentvoices on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:53 am

I would go by the GPU's TDP or actual power consumption numbers instead of the "recommendation" (since Nvidia/AMD has to account for lower quality units). The GTX 780 is 265W with boost, and most GPU power draw these days are on the 12V. So 265/12 = 22amps. Add the fan, RAM, and other electronic components, 25-30A is more like it. Are you sure you are reading 42A for 1 card or in SLI configuration?
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:09 am

Flying Fox wrote:I would go by the GPU's TDP or actual power consumption numbers instead of the "recommendation" (since Nvidia/AMD has to account for lower quality units). The GTX 780 is 265W with boost, and most GPU power draw these days are on the 12V. So 265/12 = 22amps. Add the fan, RAM, and other electronic components, 25-30A is more like it. Are you sure you are reading 42A for 1 card or in SLI configuration?


Here are requirements for the GTX 770. Look under details http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814130919

Start this video 25 seconds In. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvSr3YtEQt0

I noticed the GTX 760 only requires 30 amps on the +12 rail.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:40 am

EDIT: you are very welcome please read below.
The GTX 770 is just a faster GTX680 that was supposed to be a midrange card but performed so well Nvidia made the 680 there #1 card. It is a very power efficient card for the horsepower it gives you. Not like the GTX 560ti ,570 and 580s which were power hogs.

Trust me your tx 750 will run a 770 overclocked and your CPU overclcocked along with your soundcard we wont be overclocking that..J/K....without a worry in the world I repeat, without a worry in the world.
I bet if you had 2 770s your tx750 would power your whole system, I would bet a $100 on it. But I would not run SLI on a AMD board, it just does not perform as well as intels SLI.
Here is a link to a PSU power calculator...I put in everyhing in your system including a gtx 770 5 120mm fans ,controllerand 2 7200rpm HDD's ETC. and it came up with a minimum PSU of 480 watts and recommended 530 watts. See for yourself http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

As for the network card I bet you will get better ping times using the Onboard GIGABIT connection on your motherboard. You can find that out right now. Just enable both and plug your network cable into your motherboards gigabit network port and do a advanced speed test from http://www.megapath.com/speedtestplus/ select a city closest to you...I am between washington and new york and washington gives me the best speeds in pings, the unplug it from the motherboard and use the add in card and do the same tests and see for yourself.
As for worrying about taking the network load or the power usage from off the motherboard you are not. I bet the add in gigabit card will add latency and power use over the onboard gigabit. Onboard has a smaller footprint so less wattage along with shorter traces along the board to get your info to and from.
2600k HT on@4705mhz 8gb Cas9 1600 mem 2x EVGA GTX770 4gb Classified cards in SLI @1320 mhz core and 2003 mhz mem,mounted in CM HAF922 with a TX-850 PSU 2xHTPC's 2xi3 2120 3.3ghz dual core,1xasus LP HD6570 1xHIS hd7750@1150core1325mem,55"PanyVT30
vargis14
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:46 am

First and for most, I apologize to JustAnEngineer, Morphine, Chrispy, and Prestige Worldwide or anyone else I offend.This is hard for me to bite the bullet, but I was wrong.I have been looking at benchmarks from alot of different sites, and found out something I never considered.The 8350 has to be overclocked really high just to compete with Intel at STOCK speeds.Throw in the frame latencies with AMD, and the value goes way down for gaming.Even worse the power consumption on those higher clocks will make it run very hot.A Haswell with good cooling and a mild overclock will make a great gaming cpu.


I came to the same realization years ago with over heating issues on several AMD processors at stock speed. I was all gung ho for AMD as competition to Intel. I still am but the fact that AMD has to overclock their processors just to match stock Intel processors is a game breaker for me. Its been true since day one of AMD and until they can match Intel stock speed without overclocking I will not make a AMD processor my first choice.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:27 pm

silentvoices wrote:
silentvoices wrote:
vargis14 wrote:I googled the 770 and saw that 42 amps on the 12 volt rail. I just cannot believe at 100% load the video card alone could pull 42 amps I am almost positive that is for the whole system considering a corsair tx650v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 53 amps and has 2 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors and could easily power pretty much any single CPU and GPU.
The corsair tx750v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 62 amps and has 4 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors could SLI a pair of 770s with your cpu.

Also for reference The corsair tx850v2's 12 volt rail goes up to 70 amps and has 4 6+2pin pin PCIE connectors.
This is the current PSU I am using with 2 heavily overclocked 965 core 2400 mem @1.075 volts from 822 core and 2003 mem @1.025 volts 560 ti cards in SLI with a overclocked 2600k between 4.5 and 4.9 ghz depending on winter or summer for well over 2 years.
And that's with Nvidia saying a single 560ti need 30 amps and 170 watts on the 12 volt rails and I am using 2 of them overclocked a good 20% so you can say i a pulling 36 amps or better along with 205 watts or better x2 so that would put me at 72 amps 2 amps over my PSU's limit. I just added 20% to the power since i am using more then stock voltage and a 20% increase in core and memory speed, But it is probably 25% perhaps higher then that since when you overclock it greatly increases leakage and power draw once you add voltage and overclock MHZ.... Plus that does not include my 2600k @ 1.3+ volts 4500mhz+ 3x 2tb HDD, 1 SSD, 1 AIO 120mm liquid cooing system with a pump, 5x 120mm fans, 2x 200mm fans and a lighted USB Black widow ultimate keyboard and matching Imperator mouse. Also my PSU's 140mm fan is heat controlled and it rarely turns on ..in fact I have to clean my PC every 3 months from dust buildup on all my 200mm, 120mm fans and GPU fans etc. But my PSU fan is always clean so I do not even think it comes on. Since it only turns on when it gets hot enough.

I figured it might help you decide since NVIDIA and AMD greatly inflate there power requirements for there video cards. My 560 tis are built on a 40nm process with a 360mm squared die with 1950 million transistors. The gtx 770 are built on a 28nm process with a 294mm squared die with 3540 million transistors and a peak power consumption of 230 watts. For comparisons sake A sandy Bridge-E 3970x with 4x4gb quad channel memory @ 4800mhz "wow":) system with a GTX 770 fully loaded on crysis 3 with max settings @ 2560x1440 the WHOLE system pulls only 475 watts. Under a 2d idle It pulls 225 watts from the wall socket. So the actual wattage pulled is a good 10-25% less once you consider efficiency of the PSU itself converting 120v to 12v. Below is the link to the article.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphi ... html#sect1

I hope this helps in some way and makes some sense :)

Also 90 to 100 amps is all that is needed for a mig welder that runs off of 115 volts so 42 amps from a 770 card alone, I highly doubt it.



Thank-You Some very good information. It sure sounds like NVIDIA and AMD inflate there power requirements, but not sure about the GTX 770. I have a TX 750. It's 62 amps on the +12 rail, and 1 year old. The fan on that psu will cycle down on low loads, but never turn off. Its designed that way. Older version. It's connected to a Antec DF 85 using 7 fans, not counting the two on a 212 Evo. Overclocked FX 6300 @ 4.5g , ssd, 4 hdd's, 2 dvd burners, fan controller, sound card, nic card, and a 660 SC. That power supply has run great for the last year 24/7.

In my other pc I have a Corsair TX 650 V2. That Fan does cycle on heat. It's basically a thermal overload switch.Weird. A thermal overload is normally a fail safe switch, not a activation switch. In HVAC terms, on a compressor it works that way. If the compressor does not turn off, or gets to hot, the overload switch will trip, and break the circuit. I guess there designed to work either way.


I ran an i5 750 @ 4.0 / 1.375v with 2 overclocked GTX 670's on a 5 year old PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 (red) without any problems. Your TX750 should be more than enough. I'm sporting a TX850v2 on my main rig these days :) and the PC P&C is still going strong in my secondary rig.
i7 3820 @ 4.4, Custom Water Loop | ASRock X79 Extreme4 | 8GB G.Skill 1600mhz
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:58 pm

Flying Fox wrote:I would go by the GPU's TDP or actual power consumption numbers instead of the "recommendation" (since Nvidia/AMD has to account for lower quality units). The GTX 780 is 265W with boost, and most GPU power draw these days are on the 12V. So 265/12 = 22amps. Add the fan, RAM, and other electronic components, 25-30A is more like it. Are you sure you are reading 42A for 1 card or in SLI configuration?


Your right on point. One thing that is mentioned, is system requirements. It never said gpu requirements. Misleading at first glace. The GeForce GTX 770 is a 230 Watt card. It should be drawing less than 20 Amps from the +12V rail(s) at maximum power draw.

vargis14 wrote:EDIT: you are very welcome please read below.
The GTX 770 is just a faster GTX680 that was supposed to be a midrange card but performed so well Nvidia made the 680 there #1 card. It is a very power efficient card for the horsepower it gives you. Not like the GTX 560ti ,570 and 580s which were power hogs.

Trust me your tx 750 will run a 770 overclocked and your CPU overclcocked along with your soundcard we wont be overclocking that..J/K....without a worry in the world I repeat, without a worry in the world.
I bet if you had 2 770s your tx750 would power your whole system, I would bet a $100 on it. But I would not run SLI on a AMD board, it just does not perform as well as intels SLI.
Here is a link to a PSU power calculator...I put in everyhing in your system including a gtx 770 5 120mm fans ,controllerand 2 7200rpm HDD's ETC. and it came up with a minimum PSU of 480 watts and recommended 530 watts. See for yourself http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

As for the network card I bet you will get better ping times using the Onboard GIGABIT connection on your motherboard. You can find that out right now. Just enable both and plug your network cable into your motherboards gigabit network port and do a advanced speed test from http://www.megapath.com/speedtestplus/ select a city closest to you...I am between washington and new york and washington gives me the best speeds in pings, the unplug it from the motherboard and use the add in card and do the same tests and see for yourself.
As for worrying about taking the network load or the power usage from off the motherboard you are not. I bet the add in gigabit card will add latency and power use over the onboard gigabit. Onboard has a smaller footprint so less wattage along with shorter traces along the board to get your info to and from.


Some good information on power draw. That makes perfect sense, but I always give myself some headroom in case I upgrade. Normally few hundred watts. I would like to go with 760's in sli. In that case, I need monitor upgrade from 1080p, so I need to back off that idea for now. As far as the nic card. Logic prevails. Its time to change my thinking in this respect. You had my attention at the word latency. My separate card seems to work fine. I use Roadrunner for my ISP, and a offshore vpn. My download cap is 15 Mbps. Here's the wild part. I max those speeds, and this is accounting for using a vpn service. I have 15 choices of servers. Canada fully routed is nice, but even Switzerland is fine. I love it. If I can save money, and not use up an extra using pci/e slot, I'm all In. I will test that method.

I know this thread started out as choosing a cpu, but that was decided. Lets talk about cooling that cpu. I really wanted to go with a custom loop, but that can get expensive. The AIO is another option, but the pumps can be iffy. My next choice is a kit. This seems like a good trade off between the first two options. This would be a step up from my 212 Evo. Although, My 6300 at 95 watts @ 4.5g tops out at 45c using the Evo and prime testing. I really like the Cooler Master V8 for an air option. There is a new version coming out soon. One problem. 2 lbs hanging off your motherboard. Running a Haswell on a 212 Evo is a different matter. I cant speak from experiences on Haswell, but overclocking and heat come to mind. I heard some Z87 motherboards have a bios option to turn off integrated graphics on the cpu. That would help the heat factor from the beginning. Some features are important, but I always like vendors that improve there bios on a regular basis. In that respect, its all relative. The older I get, my philosophy has changed. If its not broken don't fix it :)

I have my eyes on these 2 coolers at the moment.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16891/

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18957 ... FK-R1.html
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:04 pm

I would go with the XSPC option rather than the AIO system.
For one, it's cheaper, and secondly, it's a higher-quality cooling system. Plus, you can throw a couple of waterblocks on your 760's and have a reallllly nice full-water system.

My last rig had an i5 750 on water with a 2PCB GTX 295 on water in the same loop.

On my current rig, only my CPU is in a water loop. I haven't ventured into water on the GTX 670s I am now using, but having a GPU in your water loop is phenomenal. Drastically lower temps and so much noise eliminated by not having GPU fans spinning up while you game.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:27 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote:I would go with the XSPC option rather than the AIO system.
For one, it's cheaper, and secondly, it's a higher-quality cooling system. Plus, you can throw a couple of waterblocks on your 760's and have a reallllly nice full-water system.

My last rig had an i5 750 on water with a 2PCB GTX 295 on water in the same loop.

On my current rig, only my CPU is in a water loop. I haven't ventured into water on the GTX 670s I am now using, but having a GPU in your water loop is phenomenal. Drastically lower temps and so much noise eliminated by not having GPU fans spinning up while you game.


That XSPC is pretty slick. I found some tutorials to get a better visual. It's not rocket science. Avoid kinks, short runs, add compression fittings, and bleed the air out properly. After digging into water cooling kits they do have some advantage for adding parts.Do you think (1) rad would cool (2) 760's and the cpu ? I have noticed people adding more rads. This is all new ground here, so I'm guessing at best. Nice to hear your getting great results cooling your parts. I was hesitant at first, but air coolers are getting out of control.

I kept this thread going on to many subjects. I will make a topic for any future questions concerning parts.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:54 pm

A second rad couldn't hurt to include the GPUs in the loop. You might be able to pull it off with just 1 240mm rad but it would be for the best to have 2.

When I had the i5 750 and GTX 295 in the same loop, I had 1 240mm modded into the front intake of an Antec 900 with another 120mm rad on my rear exhaust.

If I were to put my gpus on water in my current rig, I would add another 240mm rad in my front intake, as I have my current one top-mounted.

Another option would be to choose individual parts instead of the pre-selected XSPC setup and get a thick (60mm) 240mm rad, that might also do the trick instead of running two rads and simplify your loop.
i7 3820 @ 4.4, Custom Water Loop | ASRock X79 Extreme4 | 8GB G.Skill 1600mhz
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:35 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote:A second rad couldn't hurt to include the GPUs in the loop. You might be able to pull it off with just 1 240mm rad but it would be for the best to have 2.

When I had the i5 750 and GTX 295 in the same loop, I had 1 240mm modded into the front intake of an Antec 900 with another 120mm rad on my rear exhaust.

If I were to put my gpus on water in my current rig, I would add another 240mm rad in my front intake, as I have my current one top-mounted.

Another option would be to choose individual parts instead of the pre-selected XSPC setup and get a thick (60mm) 240mm rad, that might also do the trick instead of running two rads and simplify your loop.


Now I know what you mean. Spend some cash for quality up front, and insure proper cooling from the start. I don't even water cool yet, and this has me drooling. Check out the first review. Interesting on his choice of liquid he runs through the system. I am going to do some research on a custom loop now. I will start a topic on that subject. Thanks for steering me in the right direction. Kits are not going to work for my purpose.This 240 rad is a great starting point.

http://www.amazon.com/XSPC-RX240-Perfor ... m+radiator
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:49 am

Yes, that's a very nice rad. Good price, too.

One thing, depending on your case, things can get very cluttered once you start to stick water gear in. For that reason, I might recommend you look at some pump/reservoir combos to save some space. That one in the first kit you posted might be good since it would keep the pump and res out of the way.

For example, I use this in my current rig: Alphacool Eheim 600 Station II 12V

Another thing, use distilled water and an additive to keep your water clean and free of corrosion / algae. DO NOT USE DYES. They will gunk up your loop.

I use this mixed with distilled water Phobya ZuperZero Clear Concentrate

Overall, I find that european shops have a much better selection of quality watercooling components... which sucks for me since I'm in Canada :o
i7 3820 @ 4.4, Custom Water Loop | ASRock X79 Extreme4 | 8GB G.Skill 1600mhz
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:26 am

If a significant overclock for Haswell is the goal here, then wouldn't uncapping the IHS so you can replace the TIM be more important then going with water and stuff?
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:10 pm

Flying Fox wrote:If a significant overclock for Haswell is the goal here, then wouldn't uncapping the IHS so you can replace the TIM be more important then going with water and stuff?


The two methods for achieving this would not be fun. The razor blade or a vice. I heard deliding is mostly for overclocking enthusiasts that push Haswell past 4.7. With that said, lets say I get a cpu that falls way below my expectations. Now deliding sounds like a better option.I would be very happy with a 4.2 - 4.4g overclock. That should give me plenty of cpu power with a GTX 770.

A secret imparted by the folks at ASUS who gave several reviewers some tips on overclocking the retail stepping Haswell chips: Set Vcore to 1.20 V. Set all cores to 46x (which would be a 4.6 GHz overclock), save & reboot. If the system boots past the UEFI and either begins to load or, ideally, makes it into the OS and is stable, you have a 50th percentile or greater chip on the Haswell overclocking-ability bell curve. If it won’t at least boot there and make it into the UEFI, you probably have less than a 50th percentile chip. You can expect chips in the lower 50th percentile to top out in the 4.4-4.5 GHz range at 1.25 V.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/06/ ... g_review/6

I found some problems with The Azza 9000 case I just received Amazon. I was pissed at first, but I'm glad this happened. Amazon is letting me return the case. I am very happy considering this costs 170 dollars. I decided to go with the HAF X. Plenty of room for cooling and expansion. My Antec DF85 has good filters for keeping dust out, but that is not one of the best features on the Haf series.

This evens out the odds. Definitely the best product I ever used for dust. This has paid for itself considering the cost of compressed air.

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I had some time to think about water cooling, and decided to go with a kit for now.That will give me more flexibility to upgrade my monitor.I have a Asus 24" 60hz 2ms monitor. I'm upgrading to this monitor.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824236313

I only plan on on cooling the cpu, and the GTX 770 has good cooling out of the gate.(2) dual double bearing fans. Very similar to my 660 SC, and that card runs very cool. The HaF X has a duct for the gpu with a optional 120mm fan.That should keep my card nice and cool.
Last edited by silentvoices on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:13 pm

Excellent monitor choice for gaming, you will be amazed by the high refresh rate, it's something that has to be seen to be believed. Been 120hz for a year or so and would never go back.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:46 pm

Prestige Worldwide wrote:Excellent monitor choice for gaming, you will be amazed by the high refresh rate, it's something that has to be seen to be believed. Been 120hz for a year or so and would never go back.


I have been looking to upgrade my monitor for the last year. I'm always setting a budget for pc parts. After this upgrade, I'm good for a few years. When I first started looking at 120hz monitors, 3D kept popping up. This sounded pretty cool at first, but configuring games, and cost of additional software sounds like a pain. One thing that was big turn off, aiming in fps. Like it was off a little to the left or right. At any rate, I'll take higher and smoother frame rates in 2D, which on a gaming aspect, is my goal.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:34 am

silentvoices wrote:That's very convenient to take my words out of context. As I stated, " The general rule is 30 fps is the maximum limitation of the human eye, so if I'm only getting 50 fps on very taxing games with no micro stutter, benchmarks are meaningless.How many of those benchmarks are testing at stock speeds." I can edit a sentence too, and put a different spin on your words.


No, sorry, the human eye is not limitd to 30fps. That may be ok with movies and such, but with computers you'd need around 100 fps to guarantee good gameplay. If computers constantly pumped out a frame ever 33 milliseconds, then yes, you will get 30 fps and pretty smooth gameplay. In my experience, however, you need to reach around a hundred FPS to iron out most frame drops. For example, when I play Elder Scrolls IV (Oblivion), I toggle the frame counter and it usually says 75 fps. But it's not really that smooth and I can see some choppiness. This is an old game, mind you, a game that any computer these days with decent specs should be able to play well enough. And yet, my HD7770 + FX-8350 still exhibit some choppiness even when reporting 75 fps.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:50 am

Ronch, some of your experiences/opinions could be stemming from your CPU choice. (I know that's Skyrim not Oblivion) Although, I wouldn't dismiss the game engine entirely. Just saying.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:29 am

I guess most folks are recommending Intel these days but I beg to differ (for the sake of being different). I'm using an FX-8350 and I love it. It's one of the most, if not the most, intriguing CPU architecture ever etched on silicon, that's for sure. I'm the kind of guy who takes deep interest in CPU architectures, especially 'alternative' architectures. Not the best, but hey, it works well enough for me and it's just $190. Totally love it. The stock HSF is as loud as a Boeing 747 so be sure to grab an aftermarket HSF or water cooling kit. Never OCed it (don't wanna suck my power outlet dry).
Last edited by ronch on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:32 am

@Dpete27 : Yep, I know my CPU has a lot to do with it, but all I'm saying is that just because a game 'scores' above 30fps doesn't mean it'll run buttery smooth. TR and its gerbils swear by this.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:41 am

When things are moving fast, 30 Hz introduces visible jerkiness and lag. Anyone who says you can't see a difference beyond 30 Hz is just plain wrong.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:10 pm

silentvoices wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
silentvoices wrote:Benchmarks are meaningless.
All data are meaningless to the fanatic. Sane people believe in facts.
http://techreport.com/review/24954/amd- ... reviewed/7


That's very convenient to take my words out of context. As I stated, " The general rule is 30 fps is the maximum limitation of the human eye, so if I'm only getting 50 fps on very taxing games with no micro stutter, benchmarks are meaningless.How many of those benchmarks are testing at stock speeds." I can edit a sentence too, and put a different spin on your words.

Maybe you can comment on this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8Sekdb-IE


Recently I posted about a nice little free app that interpolates video on the PC, so it outputs 60fps instead of 30 or 24. I've received multiple PMs and posts praising the software and talking about how great they feel it is.

Can we now dispense with this "30fps is all most people can see" nonsense? I've NEVER EVER seen any sort of scientific or factual evidence to support it, and I've seen lots of evidence against it.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:20 pm

Forge wrote:Can we now dispense with this "30fps is all most people can see" nonsense? I've NEVER EVER seen any sort of scientific or factual evidence to support it, and I've seen lots of evidence against it.

Yep, it's at least 100Hz, probably more.

I remember that back in the CRT days I had to set the refresh to 120Hz (when I could) to stop noticing any shimmering.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:41 am

ronch wrote:@Dpete27 : Yep, I know my CPU has a lot to do with it, but all I'm saying is that just because a game 'scores' above 30fps doesn't mean it'll run buttery smooth. TR and its gerbils swear by this.


I would rather gouge my eyes out than play any game at 30fps.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:04 pm

A steady 30 frames/second isn't too bad for many games. It may not satisfy a competitive twitch gamer strung out on Red Bull, but it's tolerable. What's really annoying is playing along at an average of 60 fps and having it drop to 3 fps for a second (usually right when some intense action is happening).
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:28 am

Back in the old CRT days, you could mess around with vsync and game engine fps caps to really dig into what framerate was needed for your brain to be fooled by the persistence of vision.

It obviously varies by person, but it also varies by content. dark images take longer for your eyes and brain to process, so a dark image can feel smooth at 20fps (60Hz/3) for me, and sometimes bright images can look flickery/jerky at 38fps (75Hz/2)

For most high-contrast, twitch-gaming back in the CRT days (UT, Q3A, CS) I figured that 43fps (85Hz) was the minimum I needed for it to feel smooth, but that doesn't mean that 43fps is all you need on a 60Hz LCD screen. That 43fps equates to a 23ms frame interval, which on a 60Hz panel is ONLY satisfied by 60fps. If you move to a 120Hz panel you can get 120Hz/3 but back in the CRT days, this wasn't quite enough for me.

The closest I can get these days is to overclock my Korean 27" to 90Hz and then use vsync. I find that when a 60Hz panel drops a frame and the interval goes from 17ms up to 33ms, it's extremely obvious; When the 90Hz panel drops a frame the interval goes from 11 to 22ms, and crucially, that 22ms is below the 23ms interval that my brain/eye typically passes off as "fluid"

Passing as "fluid" is a different thing to being unable to see the difference between framerates. Whilst 23ms (a constant 43fps) is enough to suspend disbelief, I can actually tell the difference between framerates up to about 120fps. 120Hz seemed more fluid than 100Hz to me, but 160Hz was not an obvious improvement over 120Hz.

I suggest people who argue (until they're blue in the face, sometimes) about framerates and monitor frequencies actually take the time to find what their own personal threshold is for two values:
  1. the constant frame interval in milliseconds that just fools them into believing the images are true motion, rather than a sequence of static images
  2. The constant frame interval in milliseconds beyond which they cannot see any difference
The first is actually much more important than the second, because if it's higher than 33ms, you can get away with a 60Hz panel
The second is also pretty relevant, but you'd be surprised how many people who swear by 120Hz panels will give a value for this second figure as high as 14ms. These are the people who used to be satisfied by "flicker-free" 72Hz CRT's, and there's a huge number of those.

The real relevance of 120Hz displays is for 3D (60Hz per eye) and for people who can't tolerate 33ms frame intervals when a frame is dropped:
  • A 60Hz panel gives you 16.6, 33.3 and 50ms intervals at vsync +0, +1, and +2 respectively.
  • A 120Hz panel gives you 8.3, 16.6 and 25ms intervals at vsync +0, +1, and +2 respectively.
Regardless of whether you care about 120Hz or not, the difference between 33.3 and 25ms intervals when your GPU can't handle vsync or even vsync+1 is very obvious to most people - in other words, A 60Hz panel drops to 30Hz once the GPU can't output at 60fps. A 120Hz panel drops to 40Hz once the GPU can't output at 60fps. 40fps > 30fps.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:08 am

Custom water loops are all fine a good and definitely better then a AIO system. But there is a much greater chance of a leak. On top of that they cost a lot....If you include full cover GPU blocks it can really get expensive.

You might want to take a look at Silverstones new TD-02 240mm radiator AIO system. It has a solid metal pump no screws showing on the copper slab that touches your CPU and the radiator is a custom design that has more surface area then the radiators on everyone else's AIO's. It cools better then a Corsair H100i and looks fantastic.

A custom water loop will not cool that much better then a good AIO system...ambient temp has a lot to do with it.
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Re: Help with CPU choice

Postposted on Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:07 am

Don't agree with you regarding custom water.

Having just made the move myself, the difference in peak temperatures is significant.

Peak, even with high voltage, without delidding, I'm seeing 77C on my 4770 @ 1.3v/4.6ghz (with AVX2 - so real voltage is 1.37ish).

Previously with an AIO solution equivalent to the H80i, my peak was in the mid-high 90s and throttling. This is a significant difference.
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