Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Discussion of all forms of processors, from AMD to Intel to VIA.

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:24 am

It's an MSI mobo? I've never trusted MSI mobos as I've heard many stories just like yours of something just not being right.

Can you RMA the mobo as defective, since, technically, it's defective? If so, you may have better luck with Gigabyte or Asus.

Also, maybe you answered this earlier, but did you try setting AMD overdrive to handle those settings automatically? That might do the trick to get the settings to stick when coming out of sleep mode.

And, yeah, the power consumption does add up to actual money over time. It is easy to forget that or to pretend that it's not a fact.

I suppose just shutting the computer down every time is a deal breaker - you probably want to leave your applications running and just put it to sleep.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:21 pm

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:08 pm

First: AMD Overdrive is not applied on wake up (even when set to applied "on start-up")
Seem like this could create tons of problems for people with advanced profiles.

And I agree its a bios / MSI problem. But I also blame AMD for not setting standards for their OEM.
Correct operation in S1 / S3 sleep mode should be tested.
It should be part of the validation plan : "Is the processor configuration kept between S3 cycles?" "pass/fail"
AMD could provide a tools that capture/compare the CPU profile and allow.
"Capture State" ... QE enter S3... gets out of S3... "Compare State" .. "Fail" and write a report "Hey guys! you messed up S3"

But the other issue I dont understand is why Turbo on the Vishera core act so bizarre.

4ghz , 4.2ghz turbo, 4.4ghz max turbo

a) 4.4ghz is never entered, even if only one thread is running
b) if all core are loaded the clock will mostly be at 4ghz, but will jump from time to time, very shortly to 4.2 and drop to 2.9
Resulting in lower performance (core temps never reach 50c)

With turn off turbo, the clock is rock solid during any activity : 4ghz , no dips.
(temps in the mid 40s running prime95 torture test)

In the end, turbo is slow down multithreaded workload, and max turbo is never active (only maybe for a tiny fraction of a second)
Slowdown is not dramatic -5% , so maybe I just keep turbo on and live with a 5% slowdown.

Funny enough, with 4 active thread or less, its faster with turbo on. But people dont get FX-83xx to run 1-4 thread workloads :)

Well, the main reason I went with this fx-8320 was the low cost upgrade and the fact that I didn't have to buy a new motherboard.
I'm looking for a quick potential fix and a new 990FX motherboards are not cheap. (Get a new one so I can RMA in case S3 support is also broken)

The current motherboard is from early 2010 (no RMA), but the latest bios is from late 2012.
Maybe their is hope for a bios fix. I see that MSI do provide beta bios.. let me see if they have a solution.

Really, if Vishera turbo worked as expected would keep it on since this CPU easily burn in with all 8 threads at 4.6ghz
So I would set my base clock at 4.2 and my turbo at 4.6 , But ...

a) This actually slow down multithreaded workload
b) This bios doesn't let you set voltage for turbo. So I would need to overvolt, or drop turbo to 4.2, the same as the base clock.


Seem like I will redo my stability testing with turbo on and see if I can personally live with it.

Since I'm mostly ranting... the other detail I'm not thrilled about is that the corsair H100 wakeup from sleep at full blast.
So I hear a really loud blower that wind down over 20 seconds. Thats not cool (pun intended)
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:47 pm

Did any of the S3 resume problems happen with the 1090T?

Have you run any benchmarks comparing the two processors :D That seems like a worthwhile investigation.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:25 pm

sschaem wrote:And I agree its a bios / MSI problem. But I also blame AMD for not setting standards for their OEM.
Correct operation in S1 / S3 sleep mode should be tested.
It should be part of the validation plan : "Is the processor configuration kept between S3 cycles?" "pass/fail"


They don't have to ensure that overclocking works the way you want it to. And I'm sure the factory default settings work just fantastic.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:36 pm

Meadows wrote:
sschaem wrote:And I agree its a bios / MSI problem. But I also blame AMD for not setting standards for their OEM.
Correct operation in S1 / S3 sleep mode should be tested.
It should be part of the validation plan : "Is the processor configuration kept between S3 cycles?" "pass/fail"


They don't have to ensure that overclocking works the way you want it to. And I'm sure the factory default settings work just fantastic.


? Not using IDE RAID is not overclocking.
And why would any motherboard maker let you disable a feature if it will break functionality?

For Turbo (and other settings) not being honored is not MSI problems. Why would they sell their board promoting their CELL menu when its not working.

Same goes for AMD Overdrive. create profiles that break (lockup the system) on S3 resume ?

To me all this is just flacky and advertising features that doesn't work correctly.

And you cant "Fully support AMD AM3+ mutil-core processors" with a fully unlock FX processor. AMD advertise the FX83xx serie as fully unlocked.

Sure AMD doesn't guaranty that you can hit 5ghz, but you expect a simple feature as enabling/disbling turbo to freaking work.

Sorry you haven't convinced me to give a free pass for mediocrity.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:40 pm

flip-mode wrote:Did any of the S3 resume problems happen with the 1090T?

Have you run any benchmarks comparing the two processors :D That seems like a worthwhile investigation.


The 1090T was a 24/7 on system. It never went into sleep mode... Not sure I have the patience, or enought q-tips, to do a CPU swap back and worth :)

I will just see if I can live with some work around. What I will do for sure is test cinebench at stock with turbo on/off ... I would expect the same result, slightly better score with turbo off.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:06 pm

sschaem wrote:And why would any motherboard maker let you disable a feature if it will break functionality?

Because their BIOS has bugs?

sschaem wrote:For Turbo (and other settings) not being honored is not MSI problems. Why would they sell their board promoting their CELL menu when its not working.

I don't know how you can state flat out that it "is not MSI". Unless you understand how the power management feature works at the hardware level and have access to the BIOS code to verify that they've done everything right, that's just speculation. BIOS stability is one of the reasons I tend to stick with Asus these days. Asus isn't perfect either, but I've had fewer problems with them than I have with MSI or Gigabyte.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:04 pm

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:23 pm

just brew it! wrote:
sschaem wrote:And why would any motherboard maker let you disable a feature if it will break functionality?

Because their BIOS has bugs?

sschaem wrote:For Turbo (and other settings) not being honored is not MSI problems. Why would they sell their board promoting their CELL menu when its not working.

I don't know how you can state flat out that it "is not MSI". Unless you understand how the power management feature works at the hardware level and have access to the BIOS code to verify that they've done everything right, that's just speculation. BIOS stability is one of the reasons I tend to stick with Asus these days. Asus isn't perfect either, but I've had fewer problems with them than I have with MSI or Gigabyte.


Yes, and bugs happen because of shoddy QE. AMD has a hand in helping OEM produce working products.

For the turbo issue not being an MSI problem.. true I dont know 100% sure. But the problem happen even at pure stock. Reset bios, all AUTO
Boot, run prime95, use aida to record multiplier (1 second interval).. it bounce from 3.5 to 2.9 . No temperature above 40c (I have a H100 + a huge fan blowing at the case open. the VRM are cool)

Turn off turbo. Rock steady 3.5 ghz.

Now I wonder if I'm really alone, or if this is a Vishera wide problem.?!
Anyone with a FX-8350 or FX-8320, have you graphed your multiplier during heavy workload at stock ?
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:47 pm

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:16 pm

Here are the results of my own testing, conducted just a few minutes ago. I'm running an FX-8320 on an Asus M5A97 R2. System is not overclocked, and Cool 'n' Quiet is enabled.

Turbo set to "Auto" in BIOS: Cores idle at 1.4GHz; CPU load causes the loaded cores to speed up to 3.5GHz. So it would seem that "Auto" actually means "disabled" for whatever reason, since 3.5GHz is the stock clock; it looks like CnQ is coming into play here, but not Turbo.

Turbo set to "Enabled" in BIOS: Cores idle at 1.4GHz, CPU load on up to 4 cores causes them to run at 3.9GHz, load on 5+ cores causes them to run at 3.7GHz. Other than the reported turbo speed being 0.1GHz shy of the advertised turbo speed (which could just be an artifact of the speed reporting tool I'm using), this appears to be correct behavior.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:34 pm

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:54 pm

clone wrote:ok this is sorta part 2 I guess, manually set turbo for 4200mhz, cpu is idling at 1404mhz as before and on a side note during the test while stressing a single core it appears the load shifts from one core to the next according to temp, none of the cores cracked 29c and as soon as it hits it shifts the load to another core.

Does it actually hit 4.2 under load?

Edit: Further info on my own test setup. I'm running Ubuntu 12.04. Used one of my own apps (a multi-threaded fractal rendering program) as the CPU stress test, manually setting the core affinity to control how many cores it hammered on.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:55 pm

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:10 am

clone wrote:I've heard these boards aren't that great for overclocking but all of this talk has me interested, if I have the time to waste I'll look deeper into it this weekend (now) and may start pushing it higher.

Yeah, I hear you. I didn't buy an M5A97 to OC either; I bought it because I've been happy with Asus these past 5+ years, and because my desktop at work is based on one and has been absolutely rock solid (at stock, of course). Decent mid-range mobo at a decent price.

Now you've got me wondering about the Turbo speed thing too! :lol: Buried somewhere in this disaster area of a home office is a spare M5A97... I should dig that up and pop that other FX-8320 I just got into it so I can play around without jeopardizing the stability of my main rig.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:39 am

Thanks testing this out.

I decided to keep turbo enabled in the bios since S3 sleep mode will turn it back on anyways on my board, and I value S3 over top performance.

I normally get 7.24pt in Cinebench, and now get 7.13pt from a cold boot or coming out of sleep mode. Thats actually acceptable, but most importantly predictable.

Prime95 is another beat, turbo drop the multiplier often, I'm guessing something is power limiting the chip and cause the fx-8320 to lower itself to 2.9ghz (and its not temperature)
Between Cinebench & Prime95, both app load all 8 core 100%, yet the turbo act very differently (the time the chip will spend at 2.9ghz), pointing to power limiting.

The interesting thing is that I see this behavior even at stock clock in prime95, clock will bounce between 3.5 and 2.9ghz. That was unexpected. And will stay a 3.7 in cinebench...

I'm a bit more rational now that the disappointment kind of passed. But my feeling is that even so AMD advertise this chip as 'fully unlocked' you have to sacrifice S3 to fully unlock this processor.
Not because I have a buggy motherboard, but because I have yet to see a board that support voltage setting in the bios for the turbo lvl1 and lvl0.
And the fact that S3 also make AMD overdrive worthless, as all the setting are lost coming of of S3.. unless this a motherboard problem ?!

Bu the biggest limiter seem to be Turbo with its aggressive power limiter. Not sure if its from the motherboard or built in the CPU, for sure AMD overdrive doesn't expose/unlock this.

I think I set my expectation to high from this 1090t -> fx-8320 upgrade. But 145$ didn't break the bank.

A great tool to monitor/graph the chip behavior is aida64. Look at the multiplier graph while running prime95 and Cinebench, and you will get the 'whole' story. (well at 1 second interval)
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:16 am

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:21 am

clone wrote: I debating on getting a better board...
I hear that the Maximus VI Gene is a good overclocker. :wink:
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:09 am

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:28 am

clone wrote: already have an Intel setup, don't need 2, beyond that the price kills the fun, especially when you add in the price of the Intel cpu making it closer to $500 after ship, after tax vs an AMD 8320 with Asus board for $250.00
or just a mobo for $125 or less.
The Maximus VI Gene is cheaper than the Crosshair V Formula-Z.
The only 990FX motherboard available at Newegg for less than $127½ is the ASRock 990FX Extreme3. The cheapest Asus board is the M5A99FX Pro.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:12 am

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:20 pm

http://us.msi.com/product/mb/890FXA-GD70.html

just a note, MSI guaranty AM3+ support. and the most important part "The 990FX chipset employs the same silicon as 890FX"

The VRM do get hot, reporter at 60c after long burn in.

But what I do is run aida64 and monitor clock behavior with the case closed, and then opened with a large fan blowing air over all componant.
VRM drop temp to 30c, everything is cool, but their is no changes is the multiplier behavior.
Thats how I'm guessing the drop to 2.9ghz is some power limitation turn on when turbo is enabled, and is unrelated to any thermal data.
I saw now option in bios or AMD Overdrive to raise the power limits.

The GA-990FXA-UD3 look interesting, but the only thing I care at this point is having turbo disabled (since it doesn't work that well, specially overclocked)

I cant warrant $130 just for that... But I was thinking, I can also put the 1090T back on that board, put that pack in the U4 case and use that as a test system.
So now $130 + some ram get me a test system + an upgrade to better motherboard for the 8320.

My issue in going that way, the bios for that board look limited... can I disable turbo and S3 will work flawlessly?

Actually what I would like ultimately is to get turbo not to drop to 2.9ghz under heavy load, then I would want to set in the bios voltage for Lv0 and lv1
Turbo would be very useful.

Side note: when I tested at 4.6ghz I notice that 1 module would always fail prime95 first. raise the voltage and it would be fine.
I know AMD overdrive support voltage per core.. but if all that is lost on S3 restore, its not really usable. It seem that the bios should let you edit those profile.

I think I come across as to picky...
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:47 pm

Old cowboy wisdom says that the first thing that you should do when you find yourself at the bottom of a hole is to stop digging.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:11 pm

I dont think this turbo issue is that rare or is specific to my setup.

I searched for fx-8320 2.9ghz and I see people reporting the exact same problem. Even at stock, even with temp 40c and below.

The Fx-8350 also seem to be plagued with this problem, where the clock will bounce betwen 4ghz and 3.4ghz under heavy load
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... a7QI#t=177

The scary part is that I also see people mentioning that prime95 fails on FX at stock speed ?! What ?!

I'm still puzzled by all this.

My take? AMD stretched their product beyond specification. So they label the chip as a 3.5 (or 4ghz for the 8350) product, but under heavy stress the chip cant perform and need to drop multiplier to stay within power specs.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:35 pm

sschaem wrote:I dont think this turbo issue is that rare or is specific to my setup.

I searched for fx-8320 2.9ghz and I see people reporting the exact same problem. Even at stock, even with temp 40c and below.

Well, I don't see anything like that with my FX-8320/M5A97. Even when CPU temps climb into the 50s turbo still seems to work as expected, and I've never seen it limit the speed to 2.9GHz.

It does seem that running even undemanding stuff in the background can cause it to disable the 4.0GHz turbo speed though, where everything maxes out at 3.7GHz instead. This is quite possibly an OS scheduler issue, where all of the cores have *some* load on them, which then precludes full turbo operation. (IIRC to get 4.0GHz turbo half of the cores need to be idle.)
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:17 pm

I read part of this document from AMD.
http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/AMD_F ... _Guide.pdf

"Since APM sets a predefined TDP limit it is usually recommended to disable both AMD Turbo Core Technology
and APM features when increasing the CPU frequency and voltage above the default levels. The AMD Turbo
Core Technology and APM can be disabled via AMD OverDrive utility or from the motherboard BIOS menu. "

"Disable APM (Application Power Management) (disabling the AMD Turbo Core Technology via
AMD OverDrive utility will also disable APM)"

So the only way for me to disable APM is disabling turbo.... Catch22 since the board will turn on APM coming out of sleep mode.

I also read that turbo cant work without APM.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:18 am

I think you may be dealing with two different issues. One issue is losing settings when coming out of sleep. The other issue is clock speed silliness. The sleep issue is, IMO, very likely motherboard related. The clockspeed problem is more uncertain to me. It could be vrm, mono, or CPU. Regardless, JAE gave some sage advice, I think: stop digging the hole. RMA the CPU.
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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:48 am

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Re: Should I upgrade to an FX-8320? (1090T)

Postposted on Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:26 pm

Well, he's clearly unhappy with it since it didn't live up to his expectations, and doesn't want to spend the $ to replace the motherboard with something better. Getting rid of it (and eBay may actually be a better option than RMA?) is probably his best option from a stress reduction standpoint. If I hadn't just bought another one myself I'd consider offering to take it off his hands.
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