When awesome and stupid collide

Discussion of all forms of processors, from AMD to Intel to VIA.

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When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 8:44 am

My hard drive failed over the weekend. 2nd hard drive in a month that has failed me. Thanks goodness for backups - Windows 8 File History saved me.

During the file restoration process, I was sitting there absentmindedly gazing into my computer case and I see the fan on the heatsink is not turning. I look and see the plug of the Cooler Master TX 3 just swinging in the breeze. WTF, I says to myself. I realize that from the moment I built this computer I had never plugged in the heatsink - that was December 2012. It's now April 2014.

That's the stupid part.

The awesome part is obviously the Core i5 3570K. I've had this thing pegged at 100% for days at a time. This computer is on 24/7. Core i5 3570K doesn't care, it does what it is told to do!

As awesome as that is, as soon as File History finishes restoring my files, I will be plugging the fan in.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 9:02 am

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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 9:06 am

I have had less scary nightmares. Wow. :o
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 9:15 am

You realize that modern CPUs have build-in thermal throttling which makes it very difficult to kill a CPU through running it? In the worse case, the CPU will throw out general fault errors and cause BSOD if throttling fails to keep it stable.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 9:28 am

LOL, I guess you're not overclocking your K-series then ;)

I have run many a processor without a heatsink fan. Most cases these days have a lot of internal airflow - something to do with the fact that people might want to put a couple of 250W graphics cards in them.

The 3570K is only a 77W chip and 25% of it is IGP which you're probably not even using, and the TX3 has plenty of surface area backed up with heatpipes.
Back in the day, we used these to cool 70+W Socket-A Athlon processors in cases that had maybe only a couple of 80mm fans in total:

Image
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 10:29 am

Chrispy_ wrote:Back in the day, we used these to cool 70+W Socket-A Athlon processors in cases that had maybe only a couple of 80mm fans in total:

Like the old Athlon 64 3200+ I overclocked without a heatsink fan OR thermal paste on an open test bench without the heatsink latches engaged (yeah, just gravity-sitting on top). The system (surprisingly) ran IBT fine, albeit at 85C+ temps. I could get a couple hundred more MHz with the heatsink strapped down & TIM applied, and the only real effect of the fan was to lower temps on an already maxed/stable OC. On today's Haswell CPUs that put out a ton of heat when voltage is increased...YMMV. But at stock clocks...

Krogoth wrote:You realize that modern CPUs have build-in thermal throttling

Amen
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 10:39 am

Krogoth wrote:You realize that modern CPUs have build-in thermal throttling which makes it very difficult to kill a CPU through running it? In the worse case, the CPU will throw out general fault errors and cause BSOD if throttling fails to keep it stable.


I do, I do. But that doesn't make it OK for me not to realize I never plugged in my fan :D

I have never noticed if the thing has had to throttle or not - performance has always been consistent. I've never had problems with lockups, blue screens, or anything like that. The computer has been excellent - other than the hard drive failures!

Chrispy_ wrote:Back in the day, we used these to cool 70+W Socket-A Athlon processors in cases that had maybe only a couple of 80mm fans in total:
Image


Don't tell anybody, but I'm using something very similar to that (except the fan is 80mm) to cool the Phenom II X4 955 that I second-handed to my dad. The most strenuous thing he does is probably watch the occasional youtube video, so the CPU is pretty much always going to be running idle.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 10:49 am

flip-mode wrote:Don't tell anybody, but I'm using something very similar to that (except the fan is 80mm) to cool the Phenom II X4 955 that I second-handed to my dad. The most strenuous thing he does is probably watch the occasional youtube video...


You hope the video is (could be) hosted on YouTube.... :o
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 11:09 am

The real question here should be what brand of hard drives were they?
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 11:10 am

I won't pretend like I've never forgotten to plug in a CPU fan. That's why a fan-spin-check is always step #1 when first firing up a rig.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 11:32 am

Amazing is all I can say. Intel has had awesome chip saving features for a long time now but this is ummm did I say Amazing :)
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 11:48 am

DancinJack wrote:The real question here should be what brand of hard drives were they?


One 2-year old Seagate, one 5-year old Hitachi. Also had two-of-two Samsumgs F3s die in the last year, and two Western Digitals died over the two preceding years. I spread the love around. Never lost any SSDs yet - not even the OCZs.

vargis14 wrote:Amazing is all I can say. Intel has had awesome chip saving features for a long time now but this is ummm did I say Amazing :)

The TX3 does deserve some credit. It's a 92mm tower heatsink and it's quite excellent, lightweight, and clips to AMD's standard heatsink retention bracket and uses the standard Intel pin mount - no back plates. It's a quiet, fantastic cooler for stock clocks or light overclocking.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 12:47 pm

Way, way back in the day my K6-III+ ran fanless for a while. At some point I went to upgrade the RAM and realized the CPU fan had seized up. I hadn't had the case open for several months, so who knows how long it was like that. The system never skipped a beat. When I eventually retired that system (still in perfect working order) it got sent off to Starfalcon's Museum of Obsolete PCs. :wink:

flip-mode wrote:The TX3 does deserve some credit. It's a 92mm tower heatsink and it's quite excellent, lightweight, and clips to AMD's standard heatsink retention bracket and uses the standard Intel pin mount - no back plates. It's a quiet, fantastic cooler for stock clocks or light overclocking.

Yup, the TX3 has been my "go to" cooler for the past few years. I've probably used at least a half dozen of 'em in systems/upgrades for myself and other family members. Inexpensive, reliable (I was a little leery of the sleeve bearing fan at first but I have never had one fail), quieter than AMD/Intel's stock HSFs, and performs decently.

The use of standard retention brackets also makes it a no-brainer as an upgrade for existing systems that are still running on the stock HSF, since you can swap the TX3 in without pulling the mobo. Oh, and their clip design also allows it to be mounted in any orientation, so if you've got a case with a blowhole on top you can have the CPU fan blow bottom to top (instead of front to back) if you want.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 1:32 pm

If you have a decent case fan in close proximity to the TX3, you may not need a fan on the heatsink at all (as you've discovered!). There are utilities you can run to check to see whether or not the CPU is throttling. I don't have a fan on my overclocked C2D E8500, and it doesn't throttle (I have a Scythe Ninja, it's a big tower heatsink similar to the TX3).
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 1:38 pm

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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 1:45 pm

anotherengineer wrote:http://blog.reidreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/epic_fail.jpg

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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 1:49 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:LOL, I guess you're not overclocking your K-series then ;)

I have run many a processor without a heatsink fan. Most cases these days have a lot of internal airflow - something to do with the fact that people might want to put a couple of 250W graphics cards in them.

The 3570K is only a 77W chip and 25% of it is IGP which you're probably not even using, and the TX3 has plenty of surface area backed up with heatpipes.
Back in the day, we used these to cool 70+W Socket-A Athlon processors in cases that had maybe only a couple of 80mm fans in total:

Image

I bet the 3570K only puts out around 50W at full load if the IGP isn't used.

For some reason my 3770K is the opposite. It runs pretty warm with the stock HSF (plugged in :D ). Of course I can't hear the CPU fan even at full load so maybe that's by design. It does not throttle that's for sure.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 3:00 pm

homerdog wrote:my 3770K.. runs pretty warm with the stock HSF. Of course I can't hear the CPU fan even at full load so maybe that's by design.

It is actually. Intel stock HSF's have been nestled among the quietest aftermarket HSFs for a few generations now. The trade-off is higher temps of course, but still within Intel spec. AMD still prefers the dust-buster approach.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 3:18 pm

flip-mode wrote:The awesome part is obviously the Core i5 3570K. I've had this thing pegged at 100% for days at a time. This computer is on 24/7. Core i5 3570K doesn't care, it does what it is told to do!


No it doesn't. It was throttling down its clock all along. The 100% is calibrated against whatever the current clock speed is.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 4:00 pm

sid1089 wrote:
flip-mode wrote:The awesome part is obviously the Core i5 3570K. I've had this thing pegged at 100% for days at a time. This computer is on 24/7. Core i5 3570K doesn't care, it does what it is told to do!


No it doesn't. It was throttling down its clock all along. The 100% is calibrated against whatever the current clock speed is.

While you're right that 100% utilization isn't dependent on clock speed, that doesn't mean the CPU temp was getting high enough to engage clock-throttling. You also missed the "Honey Badger" reference.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 4:02 pm

sid1089 wrote:
flip-mode wrote:The awesome part is obviously the Core i5 3570K. I've had this thing pegged at 100% for days at a time. This computer is on 24/7. Core i5 3570K doesn't care, it does what it is told to do!


No it doesn't. It was throttling down its clock all along. The 100% is calibrated against whatever the current clock speed is.

He in no way implied what you think he did.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Mon May 05, 2014 4:27 pm

You cooled passively by accident. I have done it, and often, on purpose.

I have run OVERCLOCKED and OVERVOLTED CPUs passively!

The trick is the formula. Airflow X surface area = cooling. Neither side can be zero, but if you increase surface area enough, the airflow side can get very, very small.

I ran my i5-2500K all last summer with the Hyper 212's fan idled or off. Didn't need it, since the case top had 2 200mm fans.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Tue May 06, 2014 9:41 am

DPete27 wrote:
sid1089 wrote:
flip-mode wrote:The awesome part is obviously the Core i5 3570K. I've had this thing pegged at 100% for days at a time. This computer is on 24/7. Core i5 3570K doesn't care, it does what it is told to do!


No it doesn't. It was throttling down its clock all along. The 100% is calibrated against whatever the current clock speed is.

While you're right that 100% utilization isn't dependent on clock speed, that doesn't mean the CPU temp was getting high enough to engage clock-throttling. You also missed the "Honey Badger" reference.


Hey! I'm actually impressed you caught that!

And yes, I'm tempted to think - but have no way of knowing - that the TX3 may have kept the CPU cool enough to prevent throttling even under full load. It's fun to think so, but again, I have no idea if it's true.

I wish I could tag you Honey Badger Man.
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Tue May 06, 2014 10:23 am

flip-mode wrote:[I have] no way of knowing - that the TX3 may have kept the CPU cool enough to prevent throttling even under full load.

Sure you do, unplug the fan again, run your 100% utilization workload and monitor clock frequency using CPU-Z. It hasn't hurt it being unplugged for the past 1.5 years, it should certainly be okay for a test in the name of SCIENCE!
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Tue May 06, 2014 4:01 pm

That might happen....
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Tue May 06, 2014 4:20 pm

In the name of science I will uplug the CPU Fan in my 3770 machine and record the resu....
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Wed May 07, 2014 12:45 am

Instructions unclear, manhood on fire?
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Re: When awesome and stupid collide

Postposted on Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:13 am

I had a laptop that was only fully cleaned once in its 7 year operation. The SECOND time I opened it up, there was a dust bunny clogging the heatsink.

The reason why I only opened it up once was because I was upgrading the CPU when it was around 2-3 years old. Removing the keyboard, display, entire upper-chassis, and separate display daughtercard that was sitting on top of the mobile GPU and heatpipes, and piles of screws were needed to access the cooling assembly.

Part of the problem was that the laptop's mobo was facing UP, which meant any component you wanted to access (other than RAM and HDD) required the removal the entire upper chassis.
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