Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, Flying Fox, morphine
UnfriendlyFire wrote:Seems familiar to the Chinese attempt at making their own homemade CPU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson#Loongson_3
They're trying to use MIPS64 CPUs (not compatible with x86, aka not compatible with almost all of the consumer software including pirated OSes) and a modified Linux.
kamikaziechameleon wrote:If it was easy to duplicate quality AMD and intel would be on a more level playing field with other competitors.
fhohj wrote:thoughts on this?
just brew it! wrote:I'll bet they're worried about spyware planted by the NSA in the OS and/or applications
JohnC wrote:just brew it! wrote:I'll bet they're worried about spyware planted by the NSA in the OS and/or applications
Nah, that's not about this at all.
windwalker wrote:kamikaziechameleon wrote:If it was easy to duplicate quality AMD and intel would be on a more level playing field with other competitors.
Considering Intel's breakneck pace of 3-5% performance improvement per year, Russia is not in huge danger of losing out on much.
Software incompatibility is what makes this is such a crazy idea.
Airmantharp wrote:I think that it's prudent for locked-down systems that are public-network facing; security through obscurity and all, especially if you make each component a controlled item (this is already standard practice elsewhere).
But it doesn't make much sense for private, isolated networks unless they can really get the performance and efficiency where they need it, which would be within striking distance of Intel. AMD can't even manage that.
just brew it! wrote:I'll bet they're worried about spyware planted by the NSA in the OS and/or applications, and even at the microcode level in the CPU itself. If we assume that this is at least *part* of their motivation, being completely incompatible with the existing x86/Windows ecosystem isn't a bug; it's a feature!
These aren't consumer desktops we're talking about here, they're replacing office desktops and servers. Games don't matter. Recompiling what they need to to run a bunch of cookie cutter business and/or web-based apps shouldn't be that difficult; pretty much everything included in a typical modern Linux distro is platform-agnostic and 64-bit-clean already.
That said, the timeline does seem rather unrealistic. But the basic concept is not as crazy as some people are making it out to be.
ronch wrote:Anyone here thinks there could be embedded spyware inside Intel and AMD processors? IIRC AMD openly denied this but I'm not sure about Intel. Not that either one will likely admit it, of course: it's like a ticket to the bottom of the sea.
FireGryphon wrote:ronch wrote:Anyone here thinks there could be embedded spyware inside Intel and AMD processors? IIRC AMD openly denied this but I'm not sure about Intel. Not that either one will likely admit it, of course: it's like a ticket to the bottom of the sea.
Right, and because they denied it, that means they're telling the truth, right?
ronch wrote:BTW, just wondering, why does Russia and China opt to go with ARM and MIPS, respectively? I reckon they'd have to pay license fees to ARM and MIPS/Imagination. Why don't they go with SPARC? I reckon SPARC is open for the taking.
ronch wrote:Anyone here thinks there could be embedded spyware inside Intel and AMD processors? IIRC AMD openly denied this but I'm not sure about Intel. Not that either one will likely admit it, of course: it's like a ticket to the bottom of the sea.
ronch wrote:Anyone here thinks there could be embedded spyware inside Intel and AMD processors? IIRC AMD openly denied this but I'm not sure about Intel. Not that either one will likely admit it, of course: it's like a ticket to the bottom of the sea.
ronch wrote:BTW, just wondering, why does Russia and China opt to go with ARM and MIPS, respectively? I reckon they'd have to pay license fees to ARM and MIPS/Imagination. Why don't they go with SPARC? I reckon SPARC is open for the taking.
fhohj wrote:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.853471-Russia-will-Spurn-AMD-Intel-for-Locally-Made-Processors-in-2015
thoughts on this? I found this to be pretty surprising. be nice if they'd do up some GPU chips, too.
the wrote:It doesn't matter if Intel or AMD are on the NSA's payroll or not, the concept of trust has been lost by mere rumor.
ronch wrote:BTW, just wondering, why does Russia and China opt to go with ARM and MIPS, respectively? Why don't they go with SPARC? I reckon SPARC is open for the taking.
Flatland_Spider wrote:This is pure speculation, but they probably had some experience with MIPS since it's widely used in cheap electronics.
windwalker wrote:kamikaziechameleon wrote:If it was easy to duplicate quality AMD and intel would be on a more level playing field with other competitors.
Considering Intel's breakneck pace of 3-5% performance improvement per year, Russia is not in huge danger of losing out on much.
Software incompatibility is what makes this is such a crazy idea.
ronch wrote:Well, this is interesting news, but I just can't help but snort at the idea. They can probably pull it off if they really tried, but I can't see it being anywhere as successful as the Wintel platform in terms of performance/watt (who'll fab their chips?), performance/cost (Intel and AMD do have tried-and-true economies of scale), as well as compatibility, at least not in the next 10 years or so. I can just imagine Russians complaining about how their newfangled word processor isn't working well with their documents written in something like MS Office (or heck, even the compatibility problem-riddled OpenOffice and LibreOffice). Don't tell me they'll figure it out all of a sudden.
Reminds me of their laughable ReactOS project that isn't really going anywhere.
JohnC wrote:just brew it! wrote:I'll bet they're worried about spyware planted by the NSA in the OS and/or applications
Nah, that's not about this at all.
jihadjoe wrote:Airmantharp wrote:I think that it's prudent for locked-down systems that are public-network facing; security through obscurity and all, especially if you make each component a controlled item (this is already standard practice elsewhere).
But it doesn't make much sense for private, isolated networks unless they can really get the performance and efficiency where they need it, which would be within striking distance of Intel. AMD can't even manage that.
Stuxnet.
kamikaziechameleon wrote:ronch wrote:Well, this is interesting news, but I just can't help but snort at the idea. They can probably pull it off if they really tried, but I can't see it being anywhere as successful as the Wintel platform in terms of performance/watt (who'll fab their chips?), performance/cost (Intel and AMD do have tried-and-true economies of scale), as well as compatibility, at least not in the next 10 years or so. I can just imagine Russians complaining about how their newfangled word processor isn't working well with their documents written in something like MS Office (or heck, even the compatibility problem-riddled OpenOffice and LibreOffice). Don't tell me they'll figure it out all of a sudden.
Reminds me of their laughable ReactOS project that isn't really going anywhere.
If you run the numbers this is not going to actually save Russia a dime. It will likely cost them insanely more money. If it was cheaper corporate entities would more commonly adopt this practice. No, this is a move to stimulate the Russian economy, they don't want the government sending money out of the country but investing in companies domestically. The main issue with the entire concept is that Russia is so bankrupt that the only way they can maintain something like this is to literally continue invading former USSR states and absorbing them and their assets like Germany in WW2. Not only are we talking about one of the largest nations in the world shifting their entire government infrastructure but they also have to now DEVELOP the technology for the new infrastructure to hold. Its like tearing down a building then creating the foundries and corries to mind the raw minerals to make the concrete and steel to build the new building. Its simply insane. China was in a completely different financial situation when they tried this.
just brew it! wrote:Flatland_Spider wrote:This is pure speculation, but they probably had some experience with MIPS since it's widely used in cheap electronics.
...and I think MIPS' penetration of that market will only continue to increase, now that Microchip's PIC product line is shifting to it. PICs are used quite extensively in automotive and control applications. Until just a few years ago, PICs used a Microchip proprietary Harvard architecture; but the current generation of PICs are based on MIPS cores, with Microchip's SOC stuff bolted on.