AMD hits 5GHz

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AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:24 pm

here's the new processor............... http://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/re ... still-5GHz
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:29 pm

I looked just to see the wattage- 219w, to save you the trouble.

I don't think I can overclock an Intel chip to use that much power (on traditional cooling)- and it'd still be 20%-30% faster on the baseline.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:52 pm

Well that's... underwhelming. Not that I was expecting miracles, mind you.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:09 am

I still think that for their high end models they should have modified Opteron chips and customized the chipset used for said socket. It wouldn't be that hard to modify them so that they won't work with Opteron motherboards and viceversa, while also restricting features so that they are present only on the Opteron platform. Intel and nvidia do it just fine and they can release far more lucrative products like the Titan and the Extreme series. I'm not here to say that i'm a fan of paying more for less, but when everybody else does it and AMD gets left behind, i can't imagine a future where those shenanigans will ever end. I mean, just recently we had a $3000 card released.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:25 am

AFAIK pretty much the only features that are currently Opteron-only are support for registered DIMMs and multiple CPU sockets.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:40 am

just brew it! wrote:AFAIK pretty much the only features that are currently Opteron-only are support for registered DIMMs and multiple CPU sockets.


Access to the higher-core-count parts would be cool, but I don't think that AMD could do that with margins that would result in acceptable end-user pricing.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:27 am

How is this a new CPU? It's just an FX-9590 with AMD-approved water-cooling thrown in and a fancier box.

And as someone here has said, AMD should've just modified high-core-count Opterons for Socket G34 to address the high end desktop market. We all know people aren't going to turn to AMD for single-thread performance and the fundamental Bulldozer architecture is designed from the ground up for high thread counts. There are still many desktop users who are probably into that sort of thing. Why not just give them a 16-core Opteron 6380 running at 2.5GHz and branded as an FX for desktop platforms? That would gain AMD more respect than trying to redline their Vishera chips and busting a fuse somewhere in the house.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:45 am

I believe this is just a response to Intel's i7-4790K. Nothing to see here, move along.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:52 am

Airmantharp wrote:
just brew it! wrote:AFAIK pretty much the only features that are currently Opteron-only are support for registered DIMMs and multiple CPU sockets.


Access to the higher-core-count parts would be cool, but I don't think that AMD could do that with margins that would result in acceptable end-user pricing.


Came here to say that Abu Dhabi Opterons aren't actually that expensive (Newegg will sell the 16-core 6376 for just $699), but then remembered that offering it in a consumer socket would mean a lot of re-tooling for what would be a very low volume part. That, plus the fact that it would probably do even worse than FX for consumer-oriented workloads.

People who need the cores can just build a socket G34 workstation. The CPUs and motherboards aren't too expensive, so aside from the RAM it should be about the price of an X79 rig.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:41 am

jihadjoe wrote:People who need the cores can just build a socket G34 workstation. The CPUs and motherboards aren't too expensive, so aside from the RAM it should be about the price of an X79 rig.


Yeah, it's like Xeons- if you need the performance and/or the features, that's what you build, and you're probably not trying to play single-thread dependent games on it.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:50 pm

ronch wrote:How is this a new CPU? It's just an FX-9590 with AMD-approved water-cooling thrown in and a fancier box.


Yeah, there's nothing new at all here. Just now they offer their 4.7Ghz chip with a watercooler.

The cost of power alone makes it ridiculous. 84W TDP vs 219... yeah right. :roll:
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:09 pm

Kougar wrote: The cost of power alone makes it ridiculous.
Please show your math.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:16 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Kougar wrote: The cost of power alone makes it ridiculous.

Please show your math.

Whether or not it is ridiculous will depend on what percentage of the time the CPU spends running flat-out (as opposed to idling or running non-demanding workloads).

At 12 cents per kWH, I estimate that you'll spend just shy of $200 more per year on electricity compared to a CPU with an 80W TDP, assuming the CPU is fully loaded all the time. I would say that $200 more per year does border on ridiculous, but 100% utilization 24x7 is an extreme use case that won't apply to most people. Furthermore, some people may be OK with paying the extra $200, so it won't be ridiculous for everyone even under the full load scenario.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:34 pm

Since I'm certain that Kougar hasn't done the math...

(135 watts difference ÷ 0.92 PSU efficiency) x 24 hrs/day x 365 days/year x 12¢/kilowatt-hour = $154/year. I might accept that as ridiculous, if your usage case is 24/7 full-tilt operation.

(135 watts difference ÷ 0.92 PSU efficiency) x 17 hours/week x 50 weeks/year x 12¢/kWhr = $15/year for a heavy gamer. That's not ridiculous at all.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:37 pm

The thing is, you aren't getting any extra performance (compared to Intel) for that extra 100+ watts so why would you go with the one that uses more power? It's not even cheaper than the Intel competition (4770k and 4670k), which is usually AMD's selling point these days. Your power supply can also easily become an issue when you add an extra 100+ watts to your system. It would honestly be borderline whether my PSU could even run that CPU or not.

The amount of heat generated from the extra power used is probably a bigger issue for most enthusiasts than the actual power consumed though. They may give you a fancy waterblock, but that heat still has to go somewhere from there. :P
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:44 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:the math...
Let's not forget cooling all that extra power, and the fatigue/annoyance that the added noise brings with it. My personal rule of thumb is to double power differences when doing such calculations.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:56 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:(135 watts difference ÷ 0.92 PSU efficiency) x 17 hours/week x 50 weeks/year x 12¢/kWhr = $15/year for a heavy gamer. That's not ridiculous at all.


Why would a heavy gamer buy this CPU though? Its biggest weakness is gaming performance and you can get a faster Intel CPU for $100+ LESS when it comes to gaming. You can then take that $100 and 135 watts and get a beefier video card. 8)

Heavy video encoder or 3D renderer would perhaps be more appropriate. :P
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:52 pm

travbrad wrote:It's not even cheaper than the Intel competition (4770k and 4670k), which is usually AMD's selling point these days.


I can only think of two possible, very niche markets, for this product:

1) People who care about some rare corner case where AMD is faster than Intel. (Are there any of these corners left? Maybe for GPU compute type stuff.)

2) People who just like the AMD brand, who don't care about the exact technical specs, and yet have enough money to burn to run out and buy the fastest model.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:02 pm

Isn't this thing how Zion got rebooted?
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:51 pm

Some have shown that AMD's 'hardware hyper-threading' is actually superior to Intel's implementation when it comes to desktop responsiveness while actually heavily multitasking- Bensam123 explained it as thus for his video broadcasting while gaming.

So yeah, no reason to hate on AMD's architecture- hate on their apparent inability to give it the attention it deserves to properly compete on performance, if not efficiency :).
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:00 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:Since I'm certain that Kougar hasn't done the math...

(135 watts difference ÷ 0.92 PSU efficiency) x 24 hrs/day x 365 days/year x 12¢/kilowatt-hour = $154/year. I might accept that as ridiculous, if your usage case is 24/7 full-tilt operation.

(135 watts difference ÷ 0.92 PSU efficiency) x 17 hours/week x 50 weeks/year x 12¢/kWhr = $15/year for a heavy gamer. That's not ridiculous at all.


And that assumes the game manages to fully load all the cores, something that isn't going to happen.

No one is claiming that this kit is a screaming value, but for people to hysterically carry on about the _maximum_ power draw is silly.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:28 pm

Geonerd wrote:No one is claiming that this kit is a screaming value, but for people to hysterically carry on about the _maximum_ power draw is silly.


Not silly at all; as shown, it's not about the power bill as much as it is about noise and heat vented into the room. Performance aside, most people would likely not want another 100+ watts of heat being vented into their computer room, especially if that room isn't well ventilated (I keep the door closed on mine during gaming sessions).
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:32 am

airmantharp wrote:Not silly at all; as shown, it's not about the power bill as much as it is about noise and heat vented into the room. Performance aside, most people would likely not want another 100+ watts of heat being vented into their computer room, especially if that room isn't well ventilated (I keep the door closed on mine during gaming sessions).


That's exactly where I am coming from.

It's not the performance or the cost of the electricity, primarily at this point it's just the noise & heat.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:11 am

You're all kidding yourselves if you think that a 220W TDP CPU wouldn't sell well if it was uncontested in terms of performance. There are plenty of air coolers and water coolers that can deal with the heat and people that would buy such a high end part would be prepared to deal with the heat exhausted. After all what are you doing spending potentially more that $1000 (i presume that's how much it would cost if it was the fastest chip on the market) just on a CPU and motherboard if you can't afford an air conditioning unit? That's just messed up priorities.

As it stands though, it's indeed a waste of money since there are hardly any redeeming traits about it. A FX 8350 would be a far better option if you are determined to buy AMD, but it would still be the wrong choice for most people considering their use for the system.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:29 am

Arclight wrote:You're all kidding yourselves if you think that a 220W TDP CPU wouldn't sell well if it was uncontested in terms of performance


All I am saying is that it wouldn't sell to me.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:53 am

Airmantharp wrote:Some have shown that AMD's 'hardware hyper-threading' is actually superior to Intel's implementation when it comes to desktop responsiveness while actually heavily multitasking- Bensam123 explained it as thus for his video broadcasting while gaming.

So yeah, no reason to hate on AMD's architecture- hate on their apparent inability to give it the attention it deserves to properly compete on performance, if not efficiency :).


We actually have a Core i7-3770 (non-K) around here. Aside from power consumption, I'm actually very happy I chose the FX-8350. I should test Bensam's claim and play a little bit with the 3770.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:47 am

ronch wrote:Aside from power consumption, I'm actually very happy I chose the FX-8350.

As I noted last night in the front page discussion thread, I'm quite satisfied with my FX-8320. Furthermore, since I don't run F@h 24x7 any more, the power consumption isn't that bad either (idles at around 50W).
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:53 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:Since I'm certain that Kougar hasn't done the math...

(135 watts difference ÷ 0.92 PSU efficiency) x 24 hrs/day x 365 days/year x 12¢/kilowatt-hour = $154/year. I might accept that as ridiculous, if your usage case is 24/7 full-tilt operation.

(135 watts difference ÷ 0.92 PSU efficiency) x 17 hours/week x 50 weeks/year x 12¢/kWhr = $15/year for a heavy gamer. That's not ridiculous at all.


Well you did the math for me so thanks! I'd have screwed it up anyway. My computers do in fact run 24/7 365 days a year. Whether serving files, downloading or whatever they run around the clock with Folding@home or VMs running in the background.

Therefore a $154 "penalty" per year is ridiculous for a worse-performing chip. Then consider that 84 vs 219TDP also is going to appreciably increase the house cooling bill per month, so the cost is in reality much higher for 24/7 users that live in hot climates and already rely on a lot of AC usage. Then factor that over the lifetime of the system, say 5 years. :-?

I don't understand why people defend this chip. It has way higher power draw, a higher price tag, and worse performance. The only plus going for it is that it isn't the Intel name is on the box. If people decide that the brand name is more important than power, price, and performance combined then that is fine as it's their choice to make. But that aside, regardless of how much or how little a gamer uses the system they're still better off by building a cheap Intel rig instead. That's what the recommendation needs to be to people looking to build new rigs.

Heck, since you mentioned gamers specifically they could just buy that new $70 unlocked Pentium and OC it. They will still receive better FPS performance at a lower power draw and it will save $280 off the CPU cost to do so. :lol: The FX line is no better than the Pentium D 800 family back in 2005, it's just history repeating itself with a twist.
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Re: AMD hits 5GHz

Postposted on Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:24 pm

Arclight wrote:You're all kidding yourselves if you think that a 220W TDP CPU wouldn't sell well if it was uncontested in terms of performance.


Who's kidding? If it offered up performance that an OC'd 4790K couldn't touch without cryo, then sure, I'd be 'interested'. I'd figure out how to deal with it if I needed (or could find the utility in) the performance delivered.

But as it stands it's both slower and hotter for most stuff, and it runs on an archaic AMD platform, and I don't have any interest in the things that AMD does right/well, like full hardware virtualization and ECC support, and those workloads that benefit from their 'hardware hyper-threading' scheme. Now if I wanted to really work with VMs, sure, I'd have an 8350 box in a hurry.
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