Ooh, watercooling your Shuttle XPC

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Ooh, watercooling your Shuttle XPC

Postposted on Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:45 pm

http://www.pcusacorp.com/ex_image/WCL-03.jpg

and a review:

http://www.ascully.com/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=373

What do you guys think? I hope by those pic's that it doesn't block the PCI slot.

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Postposted on Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:47 pm

sorry, here is the actual product page: http://www.pcusacorp.com/product/WCL-03.html

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Postposted on Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:03 pm

$98 from GameVE

it blows air into the case from the radiator... odd and I would think that that would be bad
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Postposted on Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:57 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:$98 from GameVE

it blows air into the case from the radiator... odd and I would think that that would be bad


Really bad, because the fan on the cpu block would be pointless either way, even though the pics show its posititoned to blow air away from the block, if thats how the instructions tell you how to put it, where is the air to blow air fomr the block coming from?
/rant
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Postposted on Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:02 pm

Just read the review, all in all, not a bad product, if the temps were a little lower, i'd do it..although, the whole fan placement still has me baffled..
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Postposted on Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:09 am

Felix wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:$98 from GameVE

it blows air into the case from the radiator... odd and I would think that that would be bad


Really bad, because the fan on the cpu block would be pointless either way, even though the pics show its posititoned to blow air away from the block, if thats how the instructions tell you how to put it, where is the air to blow air fomr the block coming from?
/rant
~Felix


That CPU block fan does make you shake your head.

Also, the review didn't put that thing into a SFF, that was a full sized case. I would find it difficult to believe it would work in an XPC without seeing it done first. :-?
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Postposted on Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:20 pm

Player, it was designed to fit in an SFF. Goto the manufacturers website and they state it's target was the SFF crowd. I also saw a box shot of the product and they use a Shuttle box as an example.

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Postposted on Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:18 pm

Welp, it doesn't look good (well, at least in a Shuttle box). Over at Sudian, one of the guys on the forum I was chatting with bought one and posted his "review" of the product in a Shuttle. Can we say blah? Damn manufacturer forgot to mention that it takes up both PCI and AGP slots.

http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.cfm?catid=46&threadid=59794

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Postposted on Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:44 pm

We're having serious fit problems with our review unit. I'd say away until someone finds a sure-fire way to shoehorn one into an XPC.
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Postposted on Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:05 pm



hah they have a pic from techreport in that thread.
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Postposted on Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:10 pm

Hey Damage, notice the picture on the box from the manufacturer uses an XPC as an example. Yet, when it comes time to add the optical drive and any PCI or AGP card, you are out of room. Plus, the hoses would get bent if you tried to fit anything in the 5 1/4" bays.

I just wished someone could come up with a self contained unit for these boxes. I have both an SN45G and a SN85G4 that could benifit from a nice self-contained watercooler.

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Postposted on Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:05 am

Yeah, that's what we noticed. Looking closely at the box, I think the picture is photoshopped somehow. I don't get it.
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Postposted on Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:39 am

Damage wrote:Yeah, that's what we noticed. Looking closely at the box, I think the picture is photoshopped somehow. I don't get it.


yeah it seems like the 5 and a quarter drive is too short. are you talking about this picture?
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Postposted on Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:21 pm

It really is too bad. Some of the other WC solutions for SFF boxes is a bit too cramped for hoses and such, and using something like the Zalman tower goes against the portability of an SFF enclosure. I'd throw down the gauntlet to any manufacturer that thinks they can produce an all in one solution that fits in one of these boxes without taking up the 5 1/4" drive bay and that actually does a decent job with regards to heat. Oh well, wishful thinking on my part.

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Postposted on Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:11 pm

I've got a Sony CD-RW that's really about that short. However, that picture shows the power supply cable, but no power supply itself...like it's sitting outside the case or something...
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Postposted on Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:13 pm

Was looking at this and it looks like the fan on the CPU block is used to run the water pump. Look at the pic of the water pump here http://www.pcusacorp.com/ex_image/WCL-03.jpg
That's what it looks like to me, but hard to see and would not know how it would work if it was.

Update: Found this in a review
http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews/poseidonwcl03/index2.php
"The aluminum water block is attached to a slim black housing, which in turn has a 60mm fan mounted to it. You may be asking, why a fan? Or if you noticed that the base of the fan is sealed you may be asking, where does the air go? The design is fairly clever, and makes for a simple drive mechanism that reduces the chance of leaks. The pump is magnetic, and therefore requires no physical coupling to drive it. The fan is simply there as a motor to drive the pump which is located in the black housing between the water block and the fan."
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Postposted on Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:51 pm

I don't have a sff system, nor do I plan to, but that cooler seems pointless for a shuttle case to me. The shuttle's heatpipes are doing the same job as the water does, and probably with just about the same effeceincy.

I've just this past month built my first watercool system. The thing that was immediatly obvious to me was that the #1 component for performance it the radiator. Most of these new kits have really sucky radiators.
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Postposted on Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:32 pm

The shuttle's heatpipes are doing the same job as the water does, and probably with just about the same effeceincy.


I wish this were a true statement, but watercooling a CPU regardless of size or form factor tends to be more efficent than using a heatpipe/noisy fan combo (the Sunon fan on Shuttles sucks once you up the speed in speedfan). This becomes more evident when the radiator is on the outside of the SFF box. While I give props to Shuttle for their awesome job on the ICE system, the higher end CPU's give the ICE a run for its money, and the internal temp tends to run a bit high since the heatpipe solution cannot move a great deal of volume (heat) out fast enough without adding more fans.

Case in point, my SN45G runs an AthonXP 3200+ around 45c, but my old SN85G4 ran my A64 3400+ at 55c. Both use the same ICE unit albiet a wider base on the SN85. ah well...

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Postposted on Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:06 am

I would wager you that if someone designed a watercooling system that would fit into the same volume that the ICE cooler takes up it would be much worse. The main radiator on the ICE is only 80mm!

In the Ascully.com review, the Poseidon kit is beaten by a Zalman 3100. That is a 3+ year old heatsink designed for early athlons and pentium 3 cpus. The Poseidon would be destroyed by any modern heatsink like a Zalman 7000, Alpha, or Thermalright.

Overclockers.com also reviewed the Poseidon WCL03. When tested by someone who knows what they're doing, it gets a C/W of .57. An OEM heatsink will do that. Totally unacceptable for something that costs $99. The Poseidon WCL-02 kit is somewhat better, but that has a 4000 rpm 92mm fan or a 3000 rpm 120mm fan depending on the model. Those are not going to be any quiter than the ICE cooler or any other moderate noise heatsink.

Water is not miraculous. It is great at conducting heat, but that heat still has to get to the air somehow.
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Postposted on Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:08 pm

would wager you that if someone designed a watercooling system that would fit into the same volume that the ICE cooler takes up it would be much worse


Well, in my previous post I wasn't referring to the Poseidon kit, and the included all in one radiator/pump is the mitigating factor here. Without a good volume pump and decent radiator, its not going to happen. The kits that are currently targetted towards the SFF crowd are no better than stock coolers. Volume for volume, yes, the ICE will wipe out its water cooling brethren. When looking at larger solutions, I like the Zalman Reserator, but shoots itself in the foot with the two foot tower which eliminates the portability aspect if you are into LAN gaming.

My point as far as the ICE goes is that it is hitting the ceiling as far as how much heat it can move with higher end chips. If you saw the presentation by Intel with its dual core chips, we will be heading to a phase change setup with huge heatsinks. Something that won't convert very well to the SFF form factor. Active heatsinks and heatpipes alike are hitting a performance boundary. I'm sure watercooling will be there soon enough unless someone designs a case in which part of the chassis is the radiator.

Sorry, going off on a tangent pertaining to nothing again. :) Hopefully someone comes up with a better (aka quieter) solution for the SFF crowd. I know I'd be on board since I have three.

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Postposted on Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:45 pm

and to think, i was about to get it
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