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droopy1592 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:37 pm

Shuttle PC:

AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (capability to upgrade to dual core athlon later this year)
1 GB DDR dual channel RAM
Radeon 9700 Pro
NEC 16x DVD burner
wifi 802.11g
4 USB 2.0 ports
6 channel sound (I'll probably only use two)
1 firewire port
120GB hard drive

for about the same money but less noise
and quiet a bit smaller

Mac Mini

1.25 Ghz G4 (will be OCed to 1.5)
1GB ram (installed myself)
4x DVD superdrive
integrated ATi 9200 (32MB DDR)
1 firewire 2 usb2.0 ports
wifi and Bluetooth
40GB HD w/ 60GB firewire drive

FroBozz_Inc · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:04 pm

The Mac's advantage is installed software out of the box.
(Great operating system and full iLife software suite)

The Shuttle's advantage is better expandability, more flexability - and much better for gaming.

If you ignore the XP vx. OSX argument, I think it boils down to what I said.

derFunkenstein · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:15 pm

Unsurprisingly, I go with the Mini, for alot of what Frobozz said as well as the OSX/XP thing. Remember when installing RAM, you only have 1 DIMM slot, so that'll be a a 1GB DIMM. Happy Mac'ing.

Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:15 pm

Why would you compare the lowest end Mac Mini with a Shuttle that can have every part optimized? Why would you compare a box three times+ the size (volume) to a Mac Mini? Why compare something that can be completely configured against something that is basically an appliance?

It's not a rational comparison.

derFunkenstein · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:16 pm

Thresher has a good point, I was just going with what I'd do. Actually get 3 mini's so that they take up the same space as the shuttle.

FroBozz_Inc · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:19 pm

If you told us what you would use it for, Droopy - We could make a more informed recommendation.

droopy1592 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:36 pm

Thresher, two things can always be compared in terms of money.

Both are very functional systems for me. Just say they are at different ends of the spectrum in terms of power on one end and form on the other.

My question was not for you answer it with one but for you to answer it with a or b.

droopy1592 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:38 pm

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
If you told us what you would use it for, Droopy - We could make a more informed recommendation.

I don't play games much anymore... just the occasional warcraft 3 battle (hybrid discs). I'd use them both for the same thing: streaming music, Pshopping, email web surfing (duh), and some WC3 here and there.

droopy1592 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:39 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Thresher has a good point, I was just going with what I'd do. Actually get 3 mini's so that they take up the same space as the shuttle.

That'd be more like 5-6

FroBozz_Inc · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:53 pm

droopy1592 wrote:
FroBozz_Inc wrote:
If you told us what you would use it for, Droopy - We could make a more informed recommendation.

I don't play games much anymore... just the occasional warcraft 3 battle (hybrid discs). I'd use them both for the same thing: streaming music, Pshopping, email web surfing (duh), and some WC3 here and there.

If a more informed person can vouch for WC3's performance on a Mini w/ 1G RAM - then I would have to say go for the Mini.

droopy1592 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:58 pm

that's one of the things I haven't been able to find.

house · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:59 pm

Well if you occasionally game that one thing your gonna have a hard time with on the mac. Yes the mac is smaller but are you really that cramped for space? Surely a few accomodating a few more inches won't cause you that much trouble. On the other hand the mac does look my stylish, but unless your need wife/girlfriend approval or are a closet metrosexual, that shouldn't matter.

I would go with the shuttle simply because its more versitile, less likely to become obsolete as fast as the mac, and has more folding power

house · Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:59 pm

Well if you occasionally game that one thing you can't do on the mac. Yes the mac is smaller but are you really that cramped for space? Surely a few accomodating a few more inches won't cause you that much trouble. On the other hand the mac does look my stylish, but unless your need wife/girlfriend approval or are a closet metrosexual, that shouldn't matter.

I would go with the shuttle simply because its more versitile, less likely to become obsolete as fast as the mac, and has more folding power

PRIME1 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:07 pm

I would go with the XPC.

Reasons:
*More powerful
*Expandable
*Easier to upgrade
*Supports more software
*Easier to customize

I like the mac mini, but it is too limited for me and I am afraid I might break the little thing.

Alex · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:31 pm

Moved to the SFF Station.

derFunkenstein · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:35 pm

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
droopy1592 wrote:
FroBozz_Inc wrote:
If you told us what you would use it for, Droopy - We could make a more informed recommendation.

I don't play games much anymore... just the occasional warcraft 3 battle (hybrid discs). I'd use them both for the same thing: streaming music, Pshopping, email web surfing (duh), and some WC3 here and there.

If a more informed person can vouch for WC3's performance on a Mini w/ 1G RAM - then I would have to say go for the Mini.

I can't vouch on a Mini, but I can vouch for it on a much slower 1GHz G4 with a 100MHz system bus and a Radeon 8500, and it plays very well at medium and high settings at 1024x768.

hellokitty · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:36 pm

How can you even compare a modern machine like Shuttle to last century technology crammed into a little shiny box. You do know that Apple mini is G4 chip with an ultra slow hard drive?

Shuttle is the real thing ( I have one 3400+ version ). Hasn't crashed once since I got it, runs everything just like the big boys ( drive is a little slower since my workstation has Raptors in it ).

What should be the ultimate decider is this

Shuttle = fast

Apple mini = slow, very slow, actually a piece of crap 2-3 times slower than the Shuttle , depending on the application used .

droopy1592 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:38 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
FroBozz_Inc wrote:
droopy1592 wrote:
FroBozz_Inc wrote:
If you told us what you would use it for, Droopy - We could make a more informed recommendation.

I don't play games much anymore... just the occasional warcraft 3 battle (hybrid discs). I'd use them both for the same thing: streaming music, Pshopping, email web surfing (duh), and some WC3 here and there.

If a more informed person can vouch for WC3's performance on a Mini w/ 1G RAM - then I would have to say go for the Mini.

I can't vouch on a Mini, but I can vouch for it on a much slower 1GHz G4 with a 100MHz system bus and a Radeon 8500, and it plays very well at medium and high settings at 1024x768.

How does it do 1600x1200?

derFunkenstein · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:41 pm

I'll try it when I get home...but remember, the Radeon 8500 has a 4x2 config with 64MB of memory vs the 9200 having a 4x1 config with 32MB of RAM.

flip-mode · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:45 pm

the MINI is damn cute, but c'mon... unless you're a Mac-o-phyte there's just no question, get the A64. Then get pearpc and emulate some OS-X and it'll prolly run just as fast as realtime on the MINI (guessing on that one). Think about which box you'd rather have 2-3 years from now....

Philldoe · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:45 pm

PRIME1 wrote:
I would go with the XPC.

Reasons:
*More powerful
*Expandable
*Easier to upgrade
*Supports more software
*Easier to customize

I like the mac mini, but it is too limited for me and I am afraid I might break the little thing.

I second that.

Personally i dont see why the hell people want a SFF PC. unless they really dont ahve the space for a bigger PC.i perfer to go the larger rout so i dont have to worry about, "Is my PSU good enough", or, "Is my CPU and GPU going to make too much combined heat?" and plus i think the bigger cases(most of them) look better

derFunkenstein · Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:57 pm

flip-mode wrote:
get pearpc and emulate some OS-X and it'll prolly run just as fast as realtime on the MINI (guessing on that one).

No, it's not even close, especially since with OS X 10.2 or better, you get the added benefit of the GPU helping with the GUI and PearPC's graphics driver doesn't support it. If you want to tool around with OS X there's no substitute for a real Mac.

Hellokitty, you need to relax and actually get your hands on a Mac before you can really talk about how "slow" they are...reading forums and seeing how "OMG OS X IS THE SUX0RZ B-CUZ ITS SO SLOWWWWW AND B-SIDS MAC WON'T EVEN CUM OUT WIT A LOTS OF GAMEZ" isn't helping. And "depending on the app" it being 2-3 times as slow? You're probably looking at UT2004 benchmarks with 4xAA enabled on the Mini and a PC with a 6800Ultra installed, and because of the GPU IT'S GOING to be slower. I do mostly real work with my Mac and it's plenty quick enough; I don't ever feel like I'm waiting on the computer, unless, ironically, I'm trying to surf the web with Internet Explorer.

nulldev06 · Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:09 pm

It really comes down to what OS you want. I would personally go with the mini because OS X is a better OS than XP but that is my opinion. I use and support both OS's daily so i'm not a mac zealot talking here.

Joshvar · Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:21 pm

Word to derFunk. Any computer I've used over the last few years has been faster an external limiting factor is (me, my internet connection, etc), and I am much more comfortable and efficient on my iBook than on my A64 SFF.

If I'm actually doing things, I'd go for the Mini (and upgrade the hard drive to one of those sweet Seagate Momentus drives).
If I was gaming and chatting, I'd go for the A64 box, no doubt about it.

Performance is much more about the user and supporting hardware than the computer these days. What good is a 6800 or better video card when your LCD can't do insane resolutions? Or what good is your 2+GHz of processing power when you're waiting for a webserver to respond? There are definitely uses for such hardware, but I think the speed argument has been moot for 99% of users since CPUs hit 1GHz and hard drives became as beastly as they are.

Magnus · Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 pm

Geez, back to the mac mini argument huh? Just ask yourself, 'does this do everything i need it to?' If not, dont get that. When i ask that question, as everyone else concedes, I have to say 'no, it doesnt play games well, nor does it even get most new games made for it'. So i would get the shuttle. Were my girlfriend looking for a new computer, i would show the mini to her; Parents looking for a computer, refer them to the mac mini.

derFunkenstein · Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:30 pm

I love how the ONLY strike that keeps coming against the Mac platform is games on this forum...Meanwhile, I play UT2004 and War3FT on mine...

Magnus · Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:34 pm

And i love how every time that i mention to a mac user that i dont want a mac cause i like games too much they always list off a handful of games that have been out for quite some time :wink:

derFunkenstein · Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:38 pm

I don't play much for FPS, so older games are all there is. :lol:

Still, it's the ONLY strike anyone has against it...what a waste!

Magnus · Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:52 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
I don't play much for FPS, so older games are all there is. Still, it's the ONLY strike anyone has against it...what a waste!

I hear ya on that. I could easily be converted to mac if all RTS's and RPG's were ported to macs. FPS's i dont care much about. Even if they were though, i would be worried about the future performance of the mac mini as even some of those RTS's and RPG's have been getting some steep requirements.

Hizpanick · Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:03 pm

Thresher wrote:
Why would you compare the lowest end Mac Mini with a Shuttle that can have every part optimized? Why would you compare a box three times+ the size (volume) to a Mac Mini? Why compare something that can be completely configured against something that is basically an appliance?

It's not a rational comparison.

Because of its size, does this mean we cannot compare the Mac Mini to anything?

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