SFF standardized! Welcome DTX!

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SFF standardized! Welcome DTX!

Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:13 am

AMD annouced a new open SFF Motherboard layout standard they call DTX. I would explain more, but i'll let the article do it...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36833

I like it, i hope it goes somewhere (unlike BTX).
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:21 am

Lets hope something comes of this.






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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:32 am

Too bad those pathetic asshats at theInq are the lamest bunch of editors in the world. Notice the three different spellings they've generously provided:

DBX
DTX
DXT

Truly pathetic. And you find that level of professionalism in just about every one of their articles. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:35 am

flip-mode wrote:Too bad those pathetic asshats at theInq are the lamest bunch of editors in the world. Notice the three different spellings they've generously provided:

DBX
DTX
DXT

Truly pathetic. And you find that level of professionalism in just about every one of their articles.


Well i'll post an article from somewhere that better satifies you when i find one. :roll:
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:38 am

Here's the official announcement.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~115265,00.html

for the Inq haters.. :wink:
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:39 am

I am skeptical. There's already miniITX which is even smaller, why not just build a chassis/cooling solution around that? We will see how it goes. Wake me up when there are <$80 motherboards and $<100 cases available.

Edit: the fact that they only showed the motherboard and not at least a "concept" chassis was a bit odd. Most of the appeal of SFF is the actual case. Either AMD was just knee-jerking or they really are tight on money (not like Intel always throws us bones with some concept design)? :roll:

Edit2: the "reference" shown in the picture has too big of a HSF! What if I don't want toaster box but a lower profile thing HTPC (or just a thin desktop/blade) like chassis? They'd better have a low profile provision there somewhere.
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:02 am

Flying Fox wrote:I am skeptical. There's already miniITX which is even smaller, why not just build a chassis/cooling solution around that? We will see how it goes. Wake me up when there are <$80 motherboards and $<100 cases available.

Edit: the fact that they only showed the motherboard and not at least a "concept" chassis was a bit odd. Most of the appeal of SFF is the actual case. Either AMD was just knee-jerking or they really are tight on money (not like Intel always throws us bones with some concept design)? :roll:

Edit2: the "reference" shown in the picture has too big of a HSF! What if I don't want toaster box but a lower profile thing HTPC (or just a thin desktop/blade) like chassis? They'd better have a low profile provision there somewhere.


I think the miniITX is TOO small for cost reasons. Look at all the miniITX boards and tell me that they are reasonably priced.
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:07 am

toxent wrote:
flip-mode wrote:Too bad those pathetic asshats at theInq are the lamest bunch of editors in the world. Notice the three different spellings they've generously provided:

DBX
DTX
DXT

Truly pathetic. And you find that level of professionalism in just about every one of their articles.


Well i'll post an article from somewhere that better satifies you when i find one. :roll:
Hey man, I'm not knocking you :-? You didn't write the article.
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:23 am

flip-mode wrote:Hey man, I'm not knocking you :-? You didn't write the article.


Sorry, i've been in a bad mood the last couple of days. Besides, you didn't see my :wink: in my next post? :)
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:30 am

flip-mode wrote:Hey man, I'm not knocking you :-? You didn't write the article.


OR DID HE!? HMMMMM.... :P
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:36 am

Corrado wrote:
flip-mode wrote:Hey man, I'm not knocking you :-? You didn't write the article.


OR DID HE!? HMMMMM.... :P


OMG my secret is out! :lol:

Seriously though i really like the whole SFF thing. My biggest problem is that i just wanted to build it myself instead of having to buy a complete system. I would have settled for a barebones, but even those are getting scarce.

I hope this helps things out a little in the SFF arena. Maybe some case companies will start making a few SFF chassis' that fit well with this standard and i'll be able to go SFF on my build in 08.
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Re: SFF standardized! Welcome DTX!

Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:45 am

toxent wrote:AMD annouced a new open SFF Motherboard layout standard they call DTX. I would explain more, but i'll let the article do it...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36833

I like it, i hope it goes somewhere (unlike BTX).


Unlike BTX? 30% of the worlds desktop PCs uses BTX.
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:50 am

flip-mode wrote:Hey man, I'm not knocking you :-? You didn't write the article.


True, he probably didn't write the article but the fact remains that all that slipped through editing. If they actually do any editing at all. I regularly notice obvious spelling and grammatical errors all the time on there. I don't believe they really spend much time if any at all on editing before an article gets published.
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Re: SFF standardized! Welcome DTX!

Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:16 am

Shintai wrote:Unlike BTX? 30% of the worlds desktop PCs uses BTX.
True, I'm on a BTX compy here at work. But last I heard was that Intel was no longer pushing it, no longer trying to replace ATX with it, and that ATX is far more certain as a future standard than BTX. Plus, most BTX boxes in existence are OEM machines, and if you want to roll your own there are far fewer (if any? - haven't looked) BTX cases available as components at retail. So all-in-all my feeling is that BTX is as close to a failure as it comes without actually failing.

What's the background there anyway? Why hasn't BTX gotten beyond the OEM realm in any substantial way? Why has it been unsuccessful at replacing ATX?
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Re: SFF standardized! Welcome DTX!

Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:33 am

flip-mode wrote:
Shintai wrote:Unlike BTX? 30% of the worlds desktop PCs uses BTX.
True, I'm on a BTX compy here at work. But last I heard was that Intel was no longer pushing it, no longer trying to replace ATX with it, and that ATX is far more certain as a future standard than BTX. Plus, most BTX boxes in existence are OEM machines, and if you want to roll your own there are far fewer (if any? - haven't looked) BTX cases available as components at retail. So all-in-all my feeling is that BTX is as close to a failure as it comes without actually failing.

What's the background there anyway? Why hasn't BTX gotten beyond the OEM realm in any substantial way? Why has it been unsuccessful at replacing ATX?


Because, half the market can't run BTX. Namely systems with AMD processors due to the fact that the memory must have some kind of symmetry with the CPU to keep the circuits the same length. That's just not possible with BTX due to the location of the processor in the layout. In Intel boards just need to have equal length circuits to the northbridge. Because of the integrated memory controller on the A64 it makes things a little more difficult layout wise.
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Re: SFF standardized! Welcome DTX!

Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:52 am

Taddeusz wrote:Because, half the market can't run BTX. Namely systems with AMD processors due to the fact that the memory must have some kind of symmetry with the CPU to keep the circuits the same length. That's just not possible with BTX due to the location of the processor in the layout. In Intel boards just need to have equal length circuits to the northbridge. Because of the integrated memory controller on the A64 it makes things a little more difficult layout wise.


Actually AMD demoed a BTX motherboard a while back. Must have been before E3 06, maybe CES. Nothing came of it, and it was a little cramped, but it existed.
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:53 am

Do we have any pics.. I cant find one..
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:59 am

Jigar2speed5095 wrote:Do we have any pics.. I cant find one..


There's pics on the Inq page. Or were you talking about the AMD BTX Mobo?
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:05 am

toxent wrote:
Jigar2speed5095 wrote:Do we have any pics.. I cant find one..


There's pics on the Inq page. Or were you talking about the AMD BTX Mobo?


Neither of them. I was talking about the cases that would be used..
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:09 am

Jigar2speed5095 wrote:Do we have any pics.. I cant find one..
Only pics of the motherboard and how 4 of these can fit into a standard PCB cut panel for lower costs. No concept chassis yet, that's what I was complaining about. They needed to at least show a concept chassis so we have an idea of how small this new SFF form factor will look like (although you can still deduce from the dimensions it's not the same).

I think I can be a witness as to why the SFF phenomenon did not last. I watched from the first SV25(?) to the first AGP-equipped SFF from Shuttle with big interest. Finally made the jump in 2003 (or 04? I can't remember) with the SN45G and the then red-hot XP-M. Sure it's nice, but then a few problems quickly turned up for me:
- since I didn't have the SN45Gv2, I only have the 200W PSU, and its inductors also whined when I play Warcraft 3 (it's not even that taxing!)
- the default fan is loud when things got hot (I ran my XP-M at 2.2GHz)
- bought my RAM at a time of near peak, so I settled for 2x256 instead of 2x512
Then I realized how much I have to spend in order to upgrade this thing up to "current standard" back in late 2005/06: a better PSU, at least a 7600GT (was using a GF2MX), RAM, better fan, and some modding of the case to get rid of the restrictive comb pattern of the fan exhaust. It made me realize I could not upgrade the platform (mobo+CPU) and almost everything else has to be custom ordered meaning more $$. Also I realized that the toaster "squarish" chassis does not exactly fit everywhere. I would rather prefer a really small tower or a HTPC/desktop format if I were to use a "small case".

The result? The Asus TM-210, a standard ATX quiet Seasonic PSU, A8N-VM CSM and A64 3200+. (Of course now I am sort of regretting that one too because the Opty has just risen in price. The Dark Side is now calling me and I'm very tempted to switch!). The SN45G is just sitting in its box "suspended from active duty". :-?
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:19 am

According to what they are saying on the front page, ASUS and MSI are both supporting this, ASUS has cases so we may well see them make something. Their support should help drive this also. I would like to see some cases too though.
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:29 pm

The only problem I see with cases like the Asus TM- series is that my current case (An older Powmax Demon) is only slightly larger than those, perhaps by 2 inches each depth and height, less than 1 inch wider. Therefore, if I want a truly smaller case I need to buy something like the X-QPack to make the switch from ATX to µATX. :-(
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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:48 pm

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Postposted on Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:04 pm

Oh, good. Hot link from dailytech. They'll really like us for that. Good idea!
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Postposted on Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:47 am

Wow, that's a very chic looking little box. Heh, I might have to wait for this spec to materialize before I commence with any further upgrades.
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Postposted on Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:00 pm

That is a nice looking box. That is the kind of thing i wanted to see. What brand is that?
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Postposted on Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:16 pm

So its basicly the size of whats already shipping. Great!

http://www.dell.com/content/products/pr ... l=en&s=dhs
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Postposted on Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:26 pm

Shintai, even you won't deny that Dell box is fugly.
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Postposted on Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:28 pm

flip-mode wrote:Shintai, even you won't deny that Dell box is fugly.


Look inside, not outside! :P

(And its an AMD BTX board if anyone should be in doubt)
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Postposted on Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:35 pm

If you go micro ATX, get a Silverstone SG01. Those are the Lian-Lis of micro ATX cases. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811163050
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