Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

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Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:22 am

So,

This card is the lovechild of ex creative gamers and the 'pro soundcard, onboard sucks!' crowd.
Fine, ok - so where's this option? It's the most basic, simple option which has been on my Realtek onboard cards for the past 7 or 8 years.

I do not want to hear my music from only 2 speakers
I've asked as Asus, hardOCP, OverclockersAU forums and still no solid answer, where is the option to get 4 channel music / youtube / 2 channel movies?
Am I insane or is this simple, damned useful, standard option simply not available?

Can someone help because between this, the skype bug on this card (google it) and the sound quality being BARELY better than onboard I'm so far extremely un-impressed.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:03 am

Nice, 100 viewers but no one has come in to bat for the Xonar.
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Speakerfill, it is available under Windows 7 64bit, contrary to what some people and forums will tell you and it works on Asus's P6T motherboard - but their own discreet and 'apparently good' soundcard - I still only get 2.0 audio from media center, youtube videos, mp3's etc.

Where is the damned option (if any) to make my 2.0 audio come from 4.0 speakers (or 5.1, I don't care)
?
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:28 am

use winamp and ffdshow. failing that, the Xonar CP has a few virtual surround sound options. they should be very easy to find.

but generally, media intended for 2.0 or 2.1 speaker configurations are better off being played the way they are.

the audio drivers for the P6T are written by Realtek, while the drivers for the Xonar are written by.... C-Media, i think. Asus is not responsible for the drivers of either.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:37 am

moriz wrote:use winamp and ffdshow. failing that, the Xonar CP has a few virtual surround sound options. they should be very easy to find.


I don't see why I should have to 'fiddle' with my sound by adding effects to it in order to achieve multiple sound output.
moriz wrote:but generally, media intended for 2.0 or 2.1 speaker configurations are better off being played the way they are.


We'll have to disagree on that one, completely.

moriz wrote:the audio drivers for the P6T are written by Realtek, while the drivers for the Xonar are written by.... C-Media, i think. Asus is not responsible for the drivers of either.

Then my faith in having this fixed has just significantly dropped.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:09 am

if you are too lazy to click approximately three buttons in the Xonar CP, then you do not deserve your multi-speaker output.

geez, how hard can it be to click the button that says "virtual surround sound", or whatever it's called?
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:10 am

I have a pair of 8 year old logitech's with a "matrix" button on them. I push that and get 4 channel sound. Also, under the xonar audio settings, there are tons of options for testing your setup in every configuration to tell if your speakers are playing how you want them too. I've only have mine about a week, but so far very very pleased with it.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:20 am

moriz wrote:but generally, media intended for 2.0 or 2.1 speaker configurations are better off being played the way they are.

Close. Sound shouldn't be "virtualized" to a center channel but simple copying front to rear only enhances the soundstage. I'd probably be looking for the speaker-fill options as well.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:27 am

moriz wrote:if you are too lazy to click approximately three buttons in the Xonar CP, then you do not deserve your multi-speaker output.

geez, how hard can it be to click the button that says "virtual surround sound", or whatever it's called?


I am not sure which button you are talking about, sorry?
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:13 am

Close. Sound shouldn't be "virtualized" to a center channel but simple copying front to rear only enhances the soundstage. I'd probably be looking for the speaker-fill options as well.


No, not really. At least not in your typical PC room.

Without careful placement, all this does does is introduce random artifacts caused by wave interference between the front and back speakers (and these artifacts can be very audible and distracting).

Still, some people seem to value extra volume more than artifacts - whatever floats your boat, I guess. Most sound cards I've seen provide this option under one of these names: "duplicate channels", "virtual surround mode" or "speaker fill".
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:31 am

AbRASiON wrote:
moriz wrote:if you are too lazy to click approximately three buttons in the Xonar CP, then you do not deserve your multi-speaker output.

geez, how hard can it be to click the button that says "virtual surround sound", or whatever it's called?


I am not sure which button you are talking about, sorry?


i don't have access to my computer right now. if you still haven't figured it out by the time i get home, i'll provide a walkthrough for you.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:35 am

Open the Audio Center. Hit the down arrow to bring up the advanced options. Select the Main tab, then select the appropriate audio channel for your source, your sample rate, and your desired analog out. Problem solved.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:53 am

BlackStar wrote:No, not really. At least not in your typical PC room.

Without careful placement, all this does does is introduce random artifacts caused by wave interference between the front and back speakers (and these artifacts can be very audible and distracting).

I'm guessing I got lucky then. I can usually guess an MP3's bitrate by ear, but I haven't noticed anything that shouldn't be there with a 4-channel setup.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:57 pm

I'm guessing I got lucky then. I can usually guess an MP3's bitrate by ear, but I haven't noticed anything that shouldn't be there with a 4-channel setup.


Unless your front-back placement is equidistant you will have some amount of distortion (disregarding room dimensions, because you'll get that no matter what). Depending on the actual geometry and the kind of the music, this distortion can be more or less distracting. Try switching between 2 speakers and 4 speakers a few times, it should be there (or you really are lucky).

Personally, I can detect it with ease on songs I am very familiar with but less so on music that I haven't heard before - which makes sense. It probably helps (albeit in a kinda negative way) that I've been studying music pretty much my whole life.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:03 pm

Hmmm, I have the Xonar Essence ST and I don't even see a way to expand the music to 4 speakers. Oh well, I'll just plug in my Dolby Digital receiver and select the 4-speaker option on the receiver itself. Oh, and when it comes to games, Dolby Digital Live is your friend. :D
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:03 pm

when i tried it before, all it took on my DX is to enable dolby digital surround. however, i found the ffdshow option to be better. the illusion that create, is that the band is arranged in a circle, and you are sitting directly in the middle of that circle, with the original dual channel audio split into multiple channels by instrument.

i eventually disabled it, because i was using a 5.1 surround gaming headset, and the output from anything other than left/right/subwoofer sound tinny. this might sound better on a true 5.1 speaker system, but i don't have one to verify.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:14 pm

dustyjamessutton wrote:Hmmm, I have the Xonar Essence ST and I don't even see a way to expand the music to 4 speakers. Oh well, I'll just plug in my Dolby Digital receiver and select the 4-speaker option on the receiver itself. Oh, and when it comes to games, Dolby Digital Live is your friend. :D



Sorry but I don't see why this should be the case
1.
Dolby digital encoding is nice as an option but it IS a compressed audio signal - assuming I have a good amp, decent cables and a good soundcard - the analog solution is better until an uncompressed or lossless compression scheme can be done
2.
I shouldn't have to get my reciever to 'fiddle' with the signal in any way - I might not have a reciever, I might have 4 decent but dumb speakers - this should not be a requirement
3.
A crappy onboard Realtek can do it, under Windows 7 64bit
4.
I shouldn't have to enable 'room' or 'sorround' or any other kind of 'audio fiddling' chamber / echo / blah effects mode - I don't want my signal tampered with, I want it copied from front two, to rear two - for music, tv, youtube - like other soundcards


So
is it possible to do this, without 'fiddling' with the signal, over analog and without expecting my amp to do it?
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:20 pm

AbRASiON wrote:So is it possible to do this, without 'fiddling' with the signal, over analog and without expecting my amp to do it?

Sure. Put a Y splitter in each channel's line out and feed these to the four analog inputs on your amp.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:29 pm

sluggo wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:So is it possible to do this, without 'fiddling' with the signal, over analog and without expecting my amp to do it?

Sure. Put a Y splitter in each channel's line out and feed these to the four analog inputs on your amp.



lol
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:41 pm

AbRASiON wrote:
sluggo wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:So is it possible to do this, without 'fiddling' with the signal, over analog and without expecting my amp to do it?

Sure. Put a Y splitter in each channel's line out and feed these to the four analog inputs on your amp.



lol

nvm, misread the OP ...

Could you redefine the current rear channel outputs as front channel outputs when you want duplicate front channel outputs? Does the DX support that?
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:04 am

i'm still not sure about the point in all this. as previously mentioned by somebody else, duplicating onto the rear speakers will only cause destructive interference unless the speakers are perfectly arranged, and you are sitting in the EXACT center. basically, you move your head forward/backward, you'll get destructive interference. even if you set everything up properly, sit exactly in the center, AND not move at all, all you'll be doing is doubling your sound volume, which you can accomplish by turning the sound up.

not to mention, since you have an amp already, why not just use that? since you don't believe in destructive interference (a common physical phenomenon), i'm assuming your ears aren't good enough to detect any of the lost sound quality... if there's any to be had in the first place.

Could you redefine the current rear channel outputs as front channel outputs when you want duplicate front channel outputs? Does the DX support that?


i'm pretty sure it doesn't. the DX does not support connector repurposing like the realtek onboards. on realtek onboards, you can simply plug connectors in randomly, then sort everything out in the CP by repurposing all the sockets accordingly. this applies even for front panel sockets and mics. at one point i had three mics plugged into mine just so i can get me and two friends onto vent while sitting at the same computer.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:19 am

As others have mentioned, Dolby Virtual Speaker will upmix the signal across a 5.1 setup. You might also try setting Audio Channel to 2 channels and Analog Out to 4 channels as CampinCarl suggested. Either way, I suggest you actually try these options and see if they satisfy you before disregarding them and whining about how the Xonar doesn't have exactly the same options as the Realtek. If you honestly can't tell the difference between your onboard and your Xonar, I genuinely think you're better off just going with the Realtek since it seems to have all the features you want and you won't be missing anything in terms of audio quality that you perceive.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:09 am

moriz wrote:i'm still not sure about the point in all this. as previously mentioned by somebody else, duplicating onto the rear speakers will only cause destructive interference unless the speakers are perfectly arranged, and you are sitting in the EXACT center.



Ok firstly, 'destructive interference' = LOL are you an audiophile by any chance?
Secondly - I am sitting perfectly in the middle of 4 identical speakers.


moriz wrote:basically, you move your head forward/backward, you'll get destructive interference. even if you set everything up properly, sit exactly in the center, AND not move at all, all you'll be doing is doubling your sound volume, which you can accomplish by turning the sound up.


Who cares why I want to do it, I do, I want 4 speakers playing audio instead of 2, it's not hard - my movies do it in the loungeroom, my Realtek does it, it's not a hard request.
Not worrying about the rest.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:10 am

Zoomastigophora wrote:As others have mentioned, Dolby Virtual Speaker will upmix the signal across a 5.1 setup.

So it'll compress and mess the signal up in to dolby encoding then? Rather than the raw audio over analog?


Zoomastigophora wrote: You might also try setting Audio Channel to 2 channels and Analog Out to 4 channels as CampinCarl suggested.

Yeah I've heard that will actually work, except then I have to manually set 5.1 channel audio just before I go in to a game, ridiculous.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:46 am

AbRASiON wrote:
moriz wrote:i'm still not sure about the point in all this. as previously mentioned by somebody else, duplicating onto the rear speakers will only cause destructive interference unless the speakers are perfectly arranged, and you are sitting in the EXACT center.



Ok firstly, 'destructive interference' = LOL are you an audiophile by any chance?
Secondly - I am sitting perfectly in the middle of 4 identical speakers.


moriz wrote:basically, you move your head forward/backward, you'll get destructive interference. even if you set everything up properly, sit exactly in the center, AND not move at all, all you'll be doing is doubling your sound volume, which you can accomplish by turning the sound up.


Who cares why I want to do it, I do, I want 4 speakers playing audio instead of 2, it's not hard - my movies do it in the loungeroom, my Realtek does it, it's not a hard request.
Not worrying about the rest.


like i said, if your ears aren't good enough to detect it, then you obviously won't appreciate the sound quality differences a xonar will make over regular onboard sound. so go ahead and follow the advice that everybody, not just the people here, have made for you, and sell the xonar. you don't need to spam five different forums about it.

your idiotic attitude really isn't helping. "LOL audiophile"? if you don't want to believe simple physics, then fine. and here you are, complaining about loss of quality due to upmixing, while interference will introduce loss of quality in of itself.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:57 am

moriz wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:
moriz wrote:i'm still not sure about the point in all this. as previously mentioned by somebody else, duplicating onto the rear speakers will only cause destructive interference unless the speakers are perfectly arranged, and you are sitting in the EXACT center.



Ok firstly, 'destructive interference' = LOL are you an audiophile by any chance?
Secondly - I am sitting perfectly in the middle of 4 identical speakers.


moriz wrote:basically, you move your head forward/backward, you'll get destructive interference. even if you set everything up properly, sit exactly in the center, AND not move at all, all you'll be doing is doubling your sound volume, which you can accomplish by turning the sound up.


Who cares why I want to do it, I do, I want 4 speakers playing audio instead of 2, it's not hard - my movies do it in the loungeroom, my Realtek does it, it's not a hard request.
Not worrying about the rest.


like i said, if your ears aren't good enough to detect it, then you obviously won't appreciate the sound quality differences a xonar will make over regular onboard sound. so go ahead and follow the advice that everybody, not just the people here, have made for you, and sell the xonar. you don't need to spam five different forums about it.

your idiotic attitude really isn't helping. "LOL audiophile"? if you don't want to believe simple physics, then fine. and here you are, complaining about loss of quality due to upmixing, while interference will introduce loss of quality in of itself.



So you're trying to justify if one speaker is 10cm further or closer away it's going to damage the audio signal due to the speed of sound.
I think your kind of post is the EXACT kind of post which makes people laugh at audiophiles, then to go for the 'clearly your hearing is not good enough' is laughable - how about you stop replying and embarassing yourself and some helpful people respond instead? (thanks to those who have thrown some /remotely plausable/ ideas my way)
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:20 am

OK folks, time to tame down the flames.

Thanks for listening.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:12 am

AbRASiON wrote:So you're trying to justify if one speaker is 10cm further or closer away it's going to damage the audio signal due to the speed of sound.
I think your kind of post is the EXACT kind of post which makes people laugh at audiophiles, then to go for the 'clearly your hearing is not good enough' is laughable - how about you stop replying and embarassing yourself and some helpful people respond instead? (thanks to those who have thrown some /remotely plausable/ ideas my way)


looks like somebody forgot that sound is a WAVE, and two waves half a wavelength out of phase will interfere destructively with each other. it has very little to do with the speed of sound.

and no, i am not an audiophile, especially considering that you have better equipment that i do. don't assume what you don't know.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:35 am

moriz wrote:
AbRASiON wrote:So you're trying to justify if one speaker is 10cm further or closer away it's going to damage the audio signal due to the speed of sound.
I think your kind of post is the EXACT kind of post which makes people laugh at audiophiles, then to go for the 'clearly your hearing is not good enough' is laughable - how about you stop replying and embarassing yourself and some helpful people respond instead? (thanks to those who have thrown some /remotely plausable/ ideas my way)


looks like somebody forgot that sound is a WAVE, and two waves half a wavelength out of phase will interfere destructively with each other. it has very little to do with the speed of sound.

and no, i am not an audiophile, especially considering that you have better equipment that i do. don't assume what you don't know.




Please just stop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound
We might be talking about 15cm's difference from my ear at this point.
Would you like to know the speed of light and my cable lengths too?
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:45 am

I know this seems like a silly question, but in my 5.1 setup, looking at the back of the pc, my inputs are in this order (right to left), do yours match this?

mic -> green -> NULL -> Orange -> Black.

There is also a diagnostics tool that will allow you to play each channel at once, or click on the speaker to generate sound to that satellite regardless if it's plugged in or configured properly. This may help you troubleshoot it more easily.
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Re: Xonar DX, speaker fill (4 channel stereo)

Postposted on Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:06 pm

This is a really strange thread. The OP asked a question, then attacks anyone who tries to answer it.

By the way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_interference

Interference is a real thing. Basically if you two waves with the same frequency, but arriving at different times they can cancel each other out. In the extreme case of two waves out of phase you see total destruction (the black lines in the interference patterns on the Wikipedia article). Of course the two could add together and make a wave that is twice as strong.

Sound waves are waves, so they have interference patterns too. Interference is taught in most introductory E-M (electricity and magnetism) physics courses in college.
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