RIM Comeback?

[1stKnight]

Considering RIM'S long history in the mobile phone business, why do they not have a patent portfolio to rival APPLE'S?

[Arvald]

Blackberry (RIM is no more, they even changed the name on most of their buildings last week) does have the patent library and over the years they've bought and licensed a lot of them.

Are you suggesting they patent troll now?

They have great technology but they need a way to bring it to others ecosystems and license it out.

[NovusBogus]

Patents are irrelevant, RIM sells to corporate slaves and they want to keep it that way. They're just not interested in the consumer smartphone market.

[Chrispy_]

Patents are irrelevant, RIM sells to corporate slaves and they want to keep it that way. They're just not interested in the consumer smartphone market.

Us corporate slaves have been EXCEEDINGLY DISAPPOINTED with the last three years of RIM; Many of us have embraced iOS and Android via Activesync and discovered that we can run powerpoints, flash video presentations and videoconference.

[ludi]

My company was already on Android officially and permitted BYOD on an "officially unsupported" basis, and more recently, they moved over to a pure BYOD model for all employees not engaged in full-time field work, using the Airwatch app to enforce security settings. Blackberry has lost their key advantage and the market isn't going to suddenly revert to 2003 and give it back to them.

[Chrispy_]

the market isn't going to suddenly revert to 2003

This.

They've been completely floundering and clueless for so long that they've lost all the trust that anyone had in them, as well as a lot of relevance in today's "there's an app for that" world.
If you stir in a history plagued with some serious downtime issues, BBM security/privacy loopholes and try to overlook the stench of a company close to death and you have a pretty serious hurdle that RIM Blackberry aren't going to clear without a bit of RDF.

NEWSFLASH: Corporate IT departments don't succumb to RDF because they have remote beancounters in another department that aren't within the RDF area of effect.
ANOTHER NEWSFLASH: Corporate IT departments are still 90%* of RIMberry's income.

*Yes, I made that up. It's a ballpark figure. You know it's probably accurate enough for my point to be valid though, so who cares how accurate it is?

[NovusBogus]

I don't disagree there, but speaking as someone who works in business software, a lot of companies will stick with crappy vendors becuase That's The Way We Do Things Here(tm). My own firm totally phoned it in for about six years before somoene noticed they were getting a raw deal. Just because everyone in the company hates it doesn't mean the bureaucrats won't rubber-stamp the renewal like they do ever year...ask anyone who's ever been screwed by Dell but isn't allowed to get anything else. Rightly or wrongly, RIM is doing the business vendor thing of focusing on contracts and to hell with quality and everything else.

[clone]

ummmm.... BlackBerry stock is flying high, their phone is reviewing very well, I don't understand all the hate but the reality is the exact opposite.

the stock has gone from $7 to $26, reviews on the phone are positive and BlackBerry still has a very strong position in Europe and India, if they can manage to become the #3 maker in NA their stock will grow exponentially.

RIM never offered a crappy product, it wasn't competitive but it was and is still far more secure which is why corporate clients have stuck with them as long as they have, they may never win but BlackBerry may grow to big to be considered a viable purchase and from their could grow to regain their former dominance by leveraging their security advantage.

[End User]

ummmm.... BlackBerry stock is flying high

It is currently at $15.63 in after hours trading. At its peak the stock was over $144.

their phone is reviewing very well,

This is what The Verge has to say:

"The Z10 is a fine device, well made, reasonably priced, backed by a company with a long track record. But it's not the only device of its kind, and it's swimming against a massive wave of entrenched players with really, really good products. Products they figured out how to make years ago. Products that are mature. The smartphone industry doesn't need saving.

If you love RIM and the BlackBerry brand and really want to keep supporting them, buying a Z10 wouldn't be a mistake. But I think there are better phones on the market, and I don't yet see a compelling reason for most customers to choose this phone over those better ones. So why the Z10? Why now? Until BlackBerry can answer that question, I would be careful about how you spend your money."

but it was and is still far more secure which is why corporate clients have stuck with them as long as they have,

What? More secure? Tell that to Best Buy (who just kicked 10,000 BlackBerrys to the curb) http://goo.gl/EF20o Don't forget about the 17,000 BlackBerrys that were dumped by a US government agency http://goo.gl/xwdGq

[End User]

BlackBerry still has a very strong position in Europe and India

"The company, which is rebranding itself BlackBerry after its best-known smartphone, has won millions of followers in these two Asian countries, mostly by selling cheaper handsets and offering service packages as low as $2 a month. So it's unlikely that the Z10 model introduced last week, which operators in India expect to sell for around $750, will appeal to the users it must reach if it is to build market share.

"It's clear that not only are India and Indonesia among the largest markets but in terms of future smartphone growth, they're amongst the ones with the most potential," said Melissa Chau, senior research manager at technology research group IDC in Singapore. "But the two devices that have been launched are not well aligned to the needs of these two markets.""
http://goo.gl/2FehX

[notfred]

That's why they are planning on releasing six devices to cover the full range.

[clone]

It is currently at $15.63 in after hours trading. At its peak the stock was over $144.

does the $144 mean anything .... it was 4+ years ago, where BlackBerry is headed matters, what it has matters, what it had doesn't.

the Verge only confirmed that BlackBerry has a product that will stop the hemoraging and most likely will get them to be the 3rd largest operator.... which is what BlackBerry is hoping for.

What? More secure?

the accompanying literature is vapor and doesn't dispute security.

End User your later post only confirms what I said.... I'm not really sure what you are saying, if BlackBerry maintains it's hold overseas and gains share with Z10 in NA it's a win win... a comeback of sorts.

[Chrispy_]

I'll play wait-and-see. I've used a Z10 for 15 minutes in a shop, we'll probably get some trial units next week.

We still have some corporate Blackberries in the office and whilst I hate the BES server, the older, simpler BB's are decent feature phones with good email capabilities and emergency maps/internet at a push which can go for a 48-hour trip without needing a recharge.

What Blackberry are lacking is apps:

• Apple has all the apps
• Android has nearly as many apps, plus the feel-good freedom you don't get in Apple's walled-garden.
• Windows Phone doesn't have the apps, Microsoft are giving Windows Phone a ridiculous cash-based transfusion and it will either heammorage or become a third ecosystem with apps.
• Palm died. Even though the concept was good it had no apps and HP murdered it before it had a chance.
• Blackberry has no apps, and it is promising a walled-garden like Apple.

Call me a cynic, but how would you rank that list of ecosystems in terms of desirability?
I didn't consciously put them in order just then, but perhaps I was pretty close by accident :\

[clone]

What Blackberry are lacking is apps:

Apple has all the apps
Android has nearly as many apps, plus the feel-good freedom you don't get in Apple's walled-garden.
Windows Phone doesn't have the apps, Microsoft are giving Windows Phone a ridiculous cash-based transfusion and it will either heammorage or become a third ecosystem with apps.
Palm died. Even though the concept was good it had no apps and HP murdered it before it had a chance.
Blackberry has no apps, and it is promising a walled-garden like Apple.

yep, fully agree.

if Blackberry goes after business and it's apps reflect that they may be able to grow from there.... but they really do need some apps reasonably soon to get the ball rolling, BlackBerry's biggest opportunity is it's prior failure, they are starting from the bottom and can only go up.... year on year growth is possible and desirable from an investor standpoint.

[End User]

It is currently at $15.63 in after hours trading. At its peak the stock was over $144.

does the $144 mean anything .... it was 4+ years ago, where BlackBerry is headed matters, what it has matters, what it had doesn't.

Perhaps you can clarify your original "BlackBerry stock is flying high" statement for me.

the accompanying literature is vapor and doesn't dispute security.

As far as ICE was concerned a Blackberry competitor delivered on security. Security is no longer a feature that BlackBerry can rely upon to win sales. The competition has caught up.

if BlackBerry maintains it's hold overseas and gains share with Z10 in NA it's a win win... a comeback of sorts.

"If" being the key word. BlackBerry's past success is no guarantee of BB10's future. The market is now dominated by other players. What BlackBerry had doesn't matter any more.

[notfred]

What Blackberry are lacking is apps:

• Apple has all the apps
• Android has nearly as many apps, plus the feel-good freedom you don't get in Apple's walled-garden.
• Blackberry has no apps, and it is promising a walled-garden like Apple.

On launch day the Z10 had 70,000 apps and it is growing all the time, they had a backlog on launch day waiting for approval. No other new OS launched with that many apps.

BB10 runs Android apps that have been repackaged. This is basically no work for the developer as all they need do is take the Android app, run a tool on it and it spits out a Blackberry .bar file that they then submit to Blackberry World. With Android's Linux background and BB10's QNX background, both OS are POSIX so doing a full native port is pretty easy as well.

[Chrispy_]

Ah fair enough. I'd read that Android apps will be repackaged and emulated using a Gingerbread kernel on Blackberries, which will SUCK.

I haven't checked it out in too much detail yet, but if the apps are truly, genuinely there, that's half the battle won.

[cphite]

What Blackberry are lacking is apps:

• Apple has all the apps
• Android has nearly as many apps, plus the feel-good freedom you don't get in Apple's walled-garden.
• Blackberry has no apps, and it is promising a walled-garden like Apple.

On launch day the Z10 had 70,000 apps and it is growing all the time, they had a backlog on launch day waiting for approval. No other new OS launched with that many apps.

BB10 runs Android apps that have been repackaged. This is basically no work for the developer as all they need do is take the Android app, run a tool on it and it spits out a Blackberry .bar file that they then submit to Blackberry World. With Android's Linux background and BB10's QNX background, both OS are POSIX so doing a full native port is pretty easy as well.

As long as it can make calls, do email, and schedule meetings, most large companies are going to be fine with that.

[notfred]

Yup, and with Blackberry Balance they can lock down the work side of the device so that the work data doesn't get seen by all the game apps, whilst with a quick swipe the owner can go play Angry Birds Star Wars happily.

[clone]

Perhaps you can clarify your original "BlackBerry stock is flying high" statement for me.

it was less than $7 it's now over $16 more than doubled.

as an investor if I'd thrown $20k at it when it was under $7 which I was seriously considering at the time then she'd be flying high for me brother with more than a 100% return in less than a year.

I got into Nortel stock when it was $0.75.... sure I knew it was $133 at one time but I got in at $0.75, it was cheap to get in and they had money in the bank, hard assets as well, a few months later it jumped up to $2.50, then it grew to $7.00 I'd dumped it (in the $6 range) and that was the end of my relationship with Nortel, should I care that they eventually went under?.. not from an investment standpoint.

Security is no longer a feature that BlackBerry can rely upon to win sales. The competition has caught up.

competition isn't even close with regard to security and I've not once said security is the end all be all but it does add a value when all else is equal.

"If" being the key word. BlackBerry's past success is no guarantee of BB10's future.

I have said absolutely nothing nor focused in any way on BlackBerry's past, I've mentioned what they have and where they are.

BlackBerry may fail, they may succeed with Z10 only to fall flat on their face with the next variant, I'm not privy to BlackBerry's ORG chart so I can't tell if it's a recipe for continued success of a lucky break from an outdated business model.... can't tell but given how low BlackBerry is they are poised to grow and they don't need to grow much to prosper.

[shaq_mobile]

I don't disagree there, but speaking as someone who works in business software, a lot of companies will stick with crappy vendors becuase That's The Way We Do Things Here(tm). My own firm totally phoned it in for about six years before somoene noticed they were getting a raw deal. Just because everyone in the company hates it doesn't mean the bureaucrats won't rubber-stamp the renewal like they do ever year...ask anyone who's ever been screwed by Dell but isn't allowed to get anything else. Rightly or wrongly, RIM is doing the business vendor thing of focusing on contracts and to hell with quality and everything else.

Affirmative. Not sure how this seems to be so common. There seems to be an exceptional amount of waste that occurs by people making decisions outside of their scope of knowledge. Happened at my last company very regularly, I'm guessing because of "process". I dunno, there seems to be an inverse relationship to the size of a company and how well its run.

I need to proofread my stuff before I submit it and buy a thesaurus. I used "seems" far too many times.

[notfred]

BlackBerry are back profitable:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release ... 772945.htm

[End User]

BlackBerry are back profitable:
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release ... 772945.htm

Revenue down 36% (in a launch quarter!!!) from the same quarter a year ago.

[clone]

it's a good news worse news situation, they are back in the black because of phone sales while at the same time they've lost existing customers and marketshare.

I still believe adoption rates in India and Europe will be the key.

BlackBerry will have to start leveraging the latest OS into a wave of annual refreshes to keep the company in the publics eye.... they can do it if they have the culture, I'm just not sure they do.

[destroy.all.monsters]

I just hope they can make it. Licensing out QNX for phones might help too. I'd hate to be stuck with the current alternatives.

The last non-BB phone I saw with a semi-decent keyboard was the Pro + and it still had only Android 2.x on it.

[End User]

they are back in the black because of phone sales

Absolute nonesense. They are back in the black because of cost cutting. They brought in 36% LESS money this quarter than the same quarter a year ago.

Their CEO Can't even give exact sales figures for the Z10 - "Two-thirds to three-quarters" of a million shipped. So at best they sold 750,000. The iPhone 5 sold 5 million over its launch weekend.

If cost cutting + product launch generates a measly $94 million in profit then BlackBerry is in really big trouble.