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killadark
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IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:37 am

So i was browsing the Fury X owners Thread At overclockers.uk and i came across a guy who owned both Fury X and Titan X.

He made this comparison video in BF4, althought the FPS is much higher on the Titan X but the Quality looks real bad its like it has a much lower draw distance and everything looks blurry.
It might be that the tester has not used proper settings in control panel maybe or this is nvidia's way of increasing performance :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBijzEQ6x6g

Source : http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showth ... 73&page=83
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Chrispy_
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:52 am

sorry for the schoolboy error but I recorded the Fury X at 30Mbs and recorded the Titan X at 12Mbs and this made the TX look very washed out.


/thread

AMD and Nvidia have been at image quality parity for a while now. The only time there's ever a difference these days is if there's a bug in the game/drivers that needs patching.
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killadark
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:58 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
sorry for the schoolboy error but I recorded the Fury X at 30Mbs and recorded the Titan X at 12Mbs and this made the TX look very washed out.


/thread

AMD and Nvidia have been at image quality parity for a while now. The only time there's ever a difference these days is if there's a bug in the game/drivers that needs patching.


. Both set to 30Mbs this time and apologies for adding the same boring run for a third time :D

he fixed that in this video read it fully....

and details missing is not something that can happen over a lower bitrate
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Chrispy_
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:35 am

Yeah, that's what I mean. I can't tell the difference between the TitanX and the FuryX image quality in that video; They both look comparable. Without high-resolution stills it's hard to tell, but at 1080p with YouTube compression there's nothing obviously wrong.

At times the distance detail looks sharper on AMD and at other times it looks sharper on Nvidia, but that's because there's a lot of moving dust in the level he uses for this video so it's just intentional random variance in how you can see based on how much dust cloud is in your view at any given moment. I'd imagine dust clouds are procedurally-generated clientside effects, so guaranteed to look different between benchmark runs.
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:46 am

You can't do a real IQ comparison on Youtube.

No matter how you spin it, Youtube will compress and reprocess every video uploaded.

You need high-bitrate FRAPS footage to do a real video comparison and host it for download instead of on a lossy webplayer interface.
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Meadows
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:07 am

I've literally checked it back to back and still can't see a difference.
 
killadark
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:21 am

Meadows wrote:
I've literally checked it back to back and still can't see a difference.

guess this will give u a better picture but obviously as other have said cnt be trusted

its impossible to find professional reviews which are new online..

http://www.overclock.net/t/1563118/ligh ... id/2506464
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Arclight
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:58 am

Hasn't this been brought up years ago? What was the conclusion back then?
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Chrispy_
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:08 pm

Well those photos are still screencaps from YouTube at 30Hz, running on a PC without Vsync at 100+fps (variable Hz) and probably captured at 60Hz. There's a whole bunch of interpolation going on right there to cause confusion before you even stop to examine the side-by-side comparison. Also, were those screencaps taken from the video where the Titan X footage was only encoded at 12MBps? Who knows....

It's one dude posting stuff using, quite literally, the worst possible medium for IQ comparisons. This image, for example is the most damning:

Image

But seriously, look at the chinese text on the sign to the right. The YouTube frame for the Fury X is taken from a single frame because you can read the text and the kerb between the sidewalk and the street is a single, crisp line. The YouTube frame for the Titan X is quite clearly two or more frames blended together; The chinese text is multiple copies and there are multiple kerbs all blurred together.This is an image that is so blatantly, OBVIOUSLY, unmistakably blended together from two different frames, and he's using it as an example to complain that the texture detail looks blurred? Seriously, does this guy even have a double-digit IQ? (and that's Intelligence Quotient, not Image Quality!)

:roll:

If the Titan X wasn't doing AF at all, there would be a huge number of people complaining about it. Lack of AF is unmistakably obvious and it's almost always a driver problem rectified in gaming profiles. Both AMD and Nvidia drivers have the option to disable these optimisations if they're not playing well with the game, but between the frame-interpolation blur and compression artefacts of Youtube, it's impossible to see anything meaningful in the video.

As much as I don't like Nvidia's Ngreeeedia's shady business practices, we've come a long way from the cheating days of Quack3.exe; Nvidia doesn't need to cheat to win benchmarks this time around, and because it's so easy to get called out for cheating, it's not worth it from a publicity or effort standpoint. If there *is* a known problem on Titan X (which I highly doubt) it'll likely be rectified with a new game profile in the next driver.

Either post 4K, lossless (PNG) screencaps of Fury vs Titan if there's a real problem, or just let this thread die - it's a halfwit being clueless, that's all! ;)
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:13 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
But seriously, look at the chinese text on the sign to the right. The YouTube frame for the Fury X is taken from a single frame because you can read the text and the kerb between the sidewalk and the street is a single, crisp line. The YouTube frame for the Titan X is quite clearly two or more frames blended together; The chinese text is multiple copies and there are multiple kerbs all blurred together.This is an image that is so blatantly, OBVIOUSLY, unmistakably blended together from two different frames, and he's using it as an example to complain that the texture detail looks blurred?


Actually, I have re-watched the video and can now confirm that something's up with the anisotropic filtering. If you focus on the pavement and nothing else, you can see that junk on the road seems to "pop in" at a closer distance for the Titan. It's in the first 20-25 seconds, so you can watch it repeatedly several times.
 
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:24 pm

Clearly the only way to solve this is to send me one of each so I can do some extensive testing. :lol:
 
Meadows
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:24 pm

As an aside, I have noticed GTA 5 "forgetting" my AF settings using a GTX 660 Ti every time I exit the game. I can set it as high as 16x in-game, but the next time I start the game the road markings are all blurred from a medium distance onwards, even though the in-game setting never changed at all.

Curiously, the issue went away after I forced 16x AF in the driver instead. Haven't measured performance though, but it sure as hell isn't anywhere near 5%, so we're not looking at a ray of light for AMD, before anyone's asking.
 
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:56 pm

Meadows wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
But seriously, look at the chinese text on the sign to the right. The YouTube frame for the Fury X is taken from a single frame because you can read the text and the kerb between the sidewalk and the street is a single, crisp line. The YouTube frame for the Titan X is quite clearly two or more frames blended together; The chinese text is multiple copies and there are multiple kerbs all blurred together.This is an image that is so blatantly, OBVIOUSLY, unmistakably blended together from two different frames, and he's using it as an example to complain that the texture detail looks blurred?


Actually, I have re-watched the video and can now confirm that something's up with the anisotropic filtering. If you focus on the pavement and nothing else, you can see that junk on the road seems to "pop in" at a closer distance for the Titan. It's in the first 20-25 seconds, so you can watch it repeatedly several times.

That could be some kind of texture streaming right? Might be harddisk related and not the GPU at all.
 
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:12 pm

BobbinThreadbare wrote:
Meadows wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
But seriously, look at the chinese text on the sign to the right. The YouTube frame for the Fury X is taken from a single frame because you can read the text and the kerb between the sidewalk and the street is a single, crisp line. The YouTube frame for the Titan X is quite clearly two or more frames blended together; The chinese text is multiple copies and there are multiple kerbs all blurred together.This is an image that is so blatantly, OBVIOUSLY, unmistakably blended together from two different frames, and he's using it as an example to complain that the texture detail looks blurred?


Actually, I have re-watched the video and can now confirm that something's up with the anisotropic filtering. If you focus on the pavement and nothing else, you can see that junk on the road seems to "pop in" at a closer distance for the Titan. It's in the first 20-25 seconds, so you can watch it repeatedly several times.

That could be some kind of texture streaming right? Might be harddisk related and not the GPU at all.


That'd be my bet. Seeing texture or geometry pop-in otherwise usually points to z-fighting (which shouldn't be an issue for anything released in the past decade plus) or level of detail adjustment that's too conservative, like Half-Life 2's DirectX 7 hardware preset. Both of those are generally connected to the engine or game content, so I wouldn't break out the pitchforks for AMD or Nvidia here.

If the texture streaming "pop" is happening for Nvidia hardware but not AMD hardware, and it isn't obvious driver cheating, I would chalk it up to some kind of assumption being made by the engine. Maybe it's needlessly changing texture streaming parameters for Nvidia hardware because of optimizations made for weaker Nvidia cards in those circumstances. But I couldn't really say without seeing the game running in front of me, and the artifacts and undesirable visual anomalies brought on by video encoding stripped away.
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Chrispy_
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Re: IQ on AMD and NVIDIA

Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:32 pm

LOL, can't believe I missed it - we were too busy scrutinising blurry, interpolated frames to recheck the start of the video:

The video shows settings parity from the beginning until 0.08 but on the Titan X side you can see the text prompting him to 'Press the "APPLY VIDEO SETTINGS" button to apply, meaning that the settings shown for the Titan X are NOT yet applied, and the actual current settings must be something lower quality.

At 0.08, on the Titan X side he CANCELS the ULTRA settings that he's pretending to demonstrate - Clearly the dialog box is the one that says "Apply settings?" and he clicks NO; That prompt only comes up if you've made graphics quality changes that haven't been applied yet.

Image

If that isn't cheating, I don't know what is. As Meadows has mentioned, terain decoration (mostly the paper litter on the floor) seems to be popping into view much closer to the camera on the Titan X. Well, with obviously different settings it's obviously going to look different ;)

Still, YouTube quality is so bad it's hard to really say anything definitive. Uploader is a moron/troll/shill whichever way you look at it for the reasons I've already cited.

Can we /thread yet? This clearly isn't a real issue, it's user-error for either innocent (yet stupid) or malicious reasons.
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