GPU Advice, GTX590

From the pixels, bits, and shaders to the graphic cards that power them. Discuss the latest from AMD and NVIDIA here.

Moderators: morphine, SecretSquirrel

GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:48 pm

Hey all, long time reader first time poster. :)

I'm in the process of a new build and am tossed on what to do for graphics despite reading every article ever written on GPU's authored in the last 6 months. I've officially gone nuts trying to make a decision, which has not been helped by things like "Inside the Second." :P

So I'm turning my noob self over to the better advice of others!

What I really want is a rig that can run every current game at absolutely max'd out settings, single 1080p screen only. I'm talking Metro, BF3, Crysis + High res/DX11, and the upcoming Arkham City totally max'd without a single thing lowered one iota. And I want flawless silky smooth gameplay. I'd like to accomplish this with the least power consumption, heat, and noise possible. At the cheapest price would be nice too.

Because I enjoy graphics more than gameplay (I'm a terrible person, I know), I've basically ruled out AMD as I want PhysX. I'm actually willing to pay more money to see glass shatter and cloth ripples in all of three game titles. I have massive OCD attention to detail.

I know that general wisdom is that with a single 1080p screen dual gpu's is wasted, but benchmark evidence suggests otherwise. It seems rather that memory is wasted, e.g. non-reference 3gb 580 SLI at 1080p would be overkill. From all that I've read it seems that a single GPU solution can't deliver on what I described above. Even a superclocked 580 in Metro is getting FPS in the 30-something range, which isn't too hot. There's a small chance I might go 3D in the next year if the price of those screens come down, in which case the performance hit would, I think, destroy any chance of a single gpu option working.

It seems to me that a GTX 590 is the best solution. It can do all of the above, with less heat/power/noise than two 570's or 580's. Granted 570/580's can be OC'd, but I don't care about FPS bragging rights. To me, either a system can deliver acceptable performance (max'd out, smooth), or it can't. Having 80fps instead of 70fps doesn't interest me.

I am however worried that I'm weighing FPS to heavily. Perhaps 35 fps in Metro on a 580 feels smoother than 55fps on a 590 given the issues of microstuttering, but from reading "Inside the Second", looking at every chart, and reading accounts of people who own the card, there doesn't seem to be enough jitter to cause any noticeable stuttering. Future more taxing games that bring it's fps down into the 30-40 range might change that, but by that time it might be reasonable to upgrade to Kepler or Haswell.

Whatever card I get I plan on coupling with a 2500k on an Asus gen 3 board, probably upgrading to ivy bridge and/or kepler in 1-2 years.



So am I being a wasteful idiot here leaning 590 over 580? And on a sidenote, does anyone know how much a 590 can be OC'd (if at all) now that overvolting has been disabled? Have I over thought all of this massively? :oops:


Thanks. :)
AntiSp4wn
Gerbil
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:24 pm

AntiSp4wn wrote:So am I being a wasteful idiot here leaning 590 over 580? And on a sidenote, does anyone know how much a 590 can be OC'd (if at all) now that overvolting has been disabled? Have I over thought all of this massively? :oops:


Thanks. :)


With regards to overclocking the 590 one should read this review.

With regards to which one to pick, I find it hard to recommend a solution like the 590 for 1080p gaming.
"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. We're so glad you could attend. Come inside! Come inside!"
Ryu Connor
Global Moderator
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 3547
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:49 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:With regards to overclocking the 590 one should read this review.

With regards to which one to pick, I find it hard to recommend a solution like the 590 for 1080p gaming.


Thank you for that article, one question solved. :)

I don't understand why the 590 isn't recommendable for 1080p. It seems to me that the 590's sweet spot for high end gaming is 1080p given that it only has 1.5gb of usable memory, an amount that one can easily surpass in multi-monitor setups. It's got the same memory limitations as a single reference 580, but significantly more processing power. Not double, but enough to truly max everything out, with the positive trade-off of less power consumption and heat than SLI'ing two cards, and more cost effective than two 580's which are truly overkill at my resolution.

I could be wrong though, I'm only going off what I've read. If anyone has max'd out Metro/Cry2/BF3 at 1080p on a 580 and found the 30-something FPS to still feel smooth then a 580 would definitely suffice. That just seems really low on the frame rate to me.
AntiSp4wn
Gerbil
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:23 pm

AntiSp4wn wrote:So am I being a wasteful idiot here leaning 590 over 580?
Yes, but... It's your money. If you want to waste it on something that won't provide a significant improvement in your gaming experience, that's your prerogative.

Consider, however, what the situation will be six months from now. By that time, AMD will have a series of Radeon HD7xxx graphics cards based on 28nm GPUs on store shelves providing excellent gaming performance for less than 1/3 the power and heat of your GeForce GTX590. NVidia will demo early spins of their own new 28nm parts... and suddenly your $760 half-kilowatt-plus monster won't seem so shiny anymore.

You're really spending a significant price premium to have the performance crown for just half a year. In the longer run, you would have higher average performance if you would purchase a less expensive graphics card more frequently than if you chose to buy the top of the heap and then waited longer to upgrade.

If you're gaming on a 4.1-megapixel display (or several of them, if you're using Eyefinity), then you may need the most powerful graphics cards available. If you're just using a single 1080p monitor, the difference between the best single-GPU cards and the GeForce GTX590's SLI-on-a-stick is mostly going to be felt in your wallet (and on your electric bill).
i7-4770K, H70, Gryphon Z87, 16 GiB, R9-290, SSD, 2 HD, Blu-ray, SB ZX, TJ08-E, SS-660XP², 3007WFP+2001FP, RK-9000BR, MX518
JustAnEngineer
Gerbil God
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 15443
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:30 pm

go with a single GTX 560 TI for now. that card should be more or less sufficient for max settings in most games for $250. when the HD 7900 series comes out a few months down the line, get one of those and use the GTX 560 TI as a physX only card. best of both worlds, and you'll end up saving some money overall.
moriz
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:35 am

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:11 pm

It is probably not the best time for an expensive GPU upgrade when the next gen GPUs are right around the corner(few months?)
ish718
Gerbil First Class
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:03 am

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:19 pm

I'm not looking for hardware bragging rights, just to max out games at 1080p with the least amount of hassle (heat, power, price) possible.

Most benchmarks suggest that maxing out the top games at 1080p, on a GTX580, nets 30-something FPS. I guess my question is if that's really going to feel playable? Minimum FPS will be dropping into the 20's which is perilously low if I'm not mistaken.

I want the least uber solution that will provide maximum gameplay at 1080p, and it looks like the 590 might be that. :-?

Waiting for the next generation would be ideal, but isn't conventional wisdom not to wait? There's always something new coming, and once the new cards come who is to say how long it will be before game makers challenge the new hardware? Things can delayed too. Initially weren't we expecting to see AMD 7xxx in October? Now they're talking March/April before we see the high end stuff. What if it gets delayed yet again?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm really a total noob and just mining for knowledge, trying to avoid buyers remorse. Thank you guys for the information, I super appreciate it. :D
AntiSp4wn
Gerbil
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:38 pm

How much performance could you get at 1080p for just half or two thirds of the price of the GeForce GTX590?
i7-4770K, H70, Gryphon Z87, 16 GiB, R9-290, SSD, 2 HD, Blu-ray, SB ZX, TJ08-E, SS-660XP², 3007WFP+2001FP, RK-9000BR, MX518
JustAnEngineer
Gerbil God
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 15443
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:29 pm

To me a graphics solution is either fast enough or it's not. Works or doesn't. Fast enough/works to me means maxing out all games currently out at 1080p. If you can't even max out current games, on a single monitor, what's the point? We like to talk about future-proofing, but that's not even present-proof.

I'm not sure there's a cheaper option, except perhaps twin 560 ti's. And they are coming out with the new and improved 560's soon. Twin 560's would give 30%+ performance over a 580 at the same price. Then again, they have a severe memory bottleneck at 1gb, and if you get the 2gb model the final price comes to $556, which is the price of a high end 580, or $146 less than a 590.

I don't mean to sound argumentative, just weighing the options. I haven't a clue what I'm talking about, just regurgitating what I've read. :lol:
AntiSp4wn
Gerbil
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:40 pm

AntiSp4wn wrote:To me a graphics solution is either fast enough or it's not. Works or doesn't. Fast enough/works to me means maxing out all games currently out at 1080p. If you can't even max out current games, on a single monitor, what's the point? We like to talk about future-proofing, but that's not even present-proof.

I'm not sure there's a cheaper option, except perhaps twin 560 ti's. And they are coming out with the new and improved 560's soon. Twin 560's would give 30%+ performance over a 580 at the same price. Then again, they have a severe memory bottleneck at 1gb, and if you get the 2gb model the final price comes to $556, which is the price of a high end 580, or $146 less than a 590.

I don't mean to sound argumentative, just weighing the options. I haven't a clue what I'm talking about, just regurgitating what I've read. :lol:


a single GTX 580 can max out every game at 1080p with the possible exception of BF3, and even then, switching off MSAA (which doesn't improve image quality in any substantial way with post AA in place) will usually net very playable framerates. if you really want to get the best available, get that instead. the GTX 590 suffers from the same issues that afflict every multi-GPU solution, including possible negative scaling and microstuttering. often times, having a single powerful GPU end up being better than using two lesser ones.

if you are actually following your own rules (least heat, power, price, things that go wrong), you'll find that currently, the GTX 580 is your only choice. the GTX 590 would be pretty far down on the list, since it epically fails the first three requirements, and possibly the last one as well.
moriz
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:35 am

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:23 pm

moriz wrote:
AntiSp4wn wrote:To me a graphics solution is either fast enough or it's not. Works or doesn't. Fast enough/works to me means maxing out all games currently out at 1080p. If you can't even max out current games, on a single monitor, what's the point? We like to talk about future-proofing, but that's not even present-proof.

I'm not sure there's a cheaper option, except perhaps twin 560 ti's. And they are coming out with the new and improved 560's soon. Twin 560's would give 30%+ performance over a 580 at the same price. Then again, they have a severe memory bottleneck at 1gb, and if you get the 2gb model the final price comes to $556, which is the price of a high end 580, or $146 less than a 590.

I don't mean to sound argumentative, just weighing the options. I haven't a clue what I'm talking about, just regurgitating what I've read. :lol:


a single GTX 580 can max out every game at 1080p with the possible exception of BF3, and even then, switching off MSAA (which doesn't improve image quality in any substantial way with post AA in place) will usually net very playable framerates. if you really want to get the best available, get that instead. the GTX 590 suffers from the same issues that afflict every multi-GPU solution, including possible negative scaling and microstuttering. often times, having a single powerful GPU end up being better than using two lesser ones.

if you are actually following your own rules (least heat, power, price, things that go wrong), you'll find that currently, the GTX 580 is your only choice. the GTX 590 would be pretty far down on the list, since it epically fails the first three requirements, and possibly the last one as well.


That's pretty much what I was looking to hear.

By least heat/power/price I mean the least that can accomplish max'd out 1080p.

Here's the EVGA Classified gtx580:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/evga-gefo ... -review/17

37fps average in Metro with PhysX off (I'd want it on). My worry is whether that's really going to play smoothly, especially since that means min fps dropping into the 20's. I'm not crazy about the 590 either, it'll give another 20fps but at the expense of multi-gpu jitter.

Just trying to figure out the lesser of two evils here.
AntiSp4wn
Gerbil
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:45 pm

1) Multi GPU jitter is a problem that wasn't a problem until somebody invented a tool to measure it. Forget it.

2) 200 watts or 200 bucks only matters if the hobby to you is price/performance or power/performance. (Or unemployed/student, of course) You already said your hobby is maxing detail. So do it right the first time, get the big card. At the very worst it's still as good as a 580.

3) Never wait for something better around the corner. There's always something there, and a little further there's something better still. All that gets you is crappy parts today and keeps you from enjoying your games while you have the time to play them.
Lazier_Said
Gerbil
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:24 pm

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:52 pm

microstuttering is very noticeable. it basically relies on driving games to ridiculous framerates (80+) to mask it, something that isn't always the case. you'd have to be very blind to NOT see it. and no, you don't need a tool to measure it either. unless the game is running well above 60fps, it is visible to the naked eye.
moriz
Gerbil XP
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:35 am

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:46 pm

Lazier_Said wrote:1) Multi GPU jitter is a problem that wasn't a problem until somebody invented a tool to measure it. Forget it.

There was plenty talk about jitter way before it was measured...
There is a fixed amount of intelligence on the planet, and the population keeps growing :(
morphine
Gerbil Khan
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 9999
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Portugal (that's next to Spain)

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:59 pm

Not everyone notices microstutter or perhaps bothered by it is a better way to phrase it. It is also a problem specific to dual SLI. Tri and Quad SLI resolve the timing issue.

In the case of the opening post and his desires a 590 on a 1080p monitor is unlikely to ever see microstutter due to sheer overkill.
"Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. We're so glad you could attend. Come inside! Come inside!"
Ryu Connor
Global Moderator
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 3547
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Marietta, GA

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:57 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:Not everyone notices microstutter or perhaps bothered by it is a better way to phrase it. It is also a problem specific to dual SLI. Tri and Quad SLI resolve the timing issue.

In the case of the opening post and his desires a 590 on a 1080p monitor is unlikely to ever see microstutter due to sheer overkill.


This was kind of my thought. The question really is what feels smoother: 35fps on a 580, or 55fps on a 590. One might have minimum fps issues, the other might drop into jitter territory.

Or perhaps I should be considering which solution would be better in terms of resale when Kepler comes around. :P

I think I'm just going to wait till Black Friday/Cyber Monday and if I can catch a great deal on a 580 or 560ti/570's, go that route, and if not eat the price of a 590.
AntiSp4wn
Gerbil
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:11 am

Why do you have to uprgade the old GPU now when the next gen GPUs are about to surface. I mean according the the latest report on GPU, the new ones will arrive within the month. But if you can not wait till then, you can then go for the upgrade. But my advice is that you should wait for the new one. This will save you money and time.
lexybam
Gerbil In Training
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:52 am

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:41 am

Mutli-card rendering methods each have their caveats.

Ryu Connor wrote:Not everyone notices microstutter or perhaps bothered by it is a better way to phrase it. It is also a problem specific to dual SLI. Tri and Quad SLI resolve the timing issue.

In the case of the opening post and his desires a 590 on a 1080p monitor is unlikely to ever see microstutter due to sheer overkill.


Tri and Quad SLI still suffer from it. It is due to the nature of AFR. Microshuttering is caused by synchronization between the different GPUS. Each rendering iteration the cards have to "stop" and make sure texture data and framing is in sync. Your eye perceive this "stop" as a brief pause/shutter. The idea is that the aggregated rendering power of SLI/CF setup can mask this problem by rendering very high framerate (85-100+ FPS) If the cards don't synchronization correctly, you get artifacting.(common in games that don't have proper SLI/CF profiles)
Ivy Bridge i5-3570K@4.0Ghz, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, 2x4GiB of PC-12800, EVGA 660Ti, Corsair CX-600 and Fractal Refined R4 (W). Kentsfield Q6600@3Ghz, HD 4850 2x2GiB PC2-6400, Gigabyte EP45-DS4P, OCZ Modstream 700W, and PC-7B.
Krogoth
Maximum Gerbil
Silver subscriber
 
 
Posts: 4421
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime

Re: GPU Advice, GTX590

Postposted on Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:46 am

@lexybam:

Well, I'm upgrading from a laptop which isn't cutting the mustard anymore. I'm a web developer and it chokes doing the basic tasks on a 1080p screen that I need to do. Not to mention my setup has become so annoying physically, trying to position the laptop somewhere where it can reach the monitor via HDMI, keyboard, mouse, my desk is just a mess trying to do this, and the results performance wise stink. It can't really game either.

What I might do is upgrade to sandy bridge today, use the IGP for now, then upgrade to Kepler. But that's not due till March/April. I'm not particularly interested in AMD's line.



@Krogoth
According to Tom's Hardware's article on microstuttering adding a third GPU eliminates the phenomenon.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/rad ... 95-15.html
AntiSp4wn
Gerbil
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:06 pm


Return to Graphics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests