Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention...

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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:07 am

Update

296.10 TDR-ed today....right after start up. I'm running on Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit now, but anyways. There you go.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:25 pm

You might try rolling back to 295.73.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:34 pm

Yeah I'm still on 285.62 with no crashes in months, I'm not upgrading to the latest just yet.

Although having all these drivers are a tad confusing:

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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:48 pm

I'm currently using GTX680 with latest WHQL drivers (301.10), haven't gotten any such issues yet, and I use FireFox daily for at least several hours...
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:52 pm

JohnC wrote:I'm currently using GTX680 with latest WHQL drivers (301.10), haven't gotten any such issues yet, and I use FireFox daily for at least several hours...

I don't see any WHQL drivers that go beyond 296.10... Is that 301.10 specific to your video card model?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:56 pm

thegleek wrote:
JohnC wrote:I'm currently using GTX680 with latest WHQL drivers (301.10), haven't gotten any such issues yet, and I use FireFox daily for at least several hours...

I don't see any WHQL drivers that go beyond 296.10... Is that 301.10 specific to your video card model?

It might be... That's what I got when selecting my card on Nvidia's web page. Maybe later they'll release a unified driver, with support for other cards as well.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:52 am

JohnC wrote:I'm currently using GTX680

Cool. Which games? Noise? Temps? Which case are you using? OC tool?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:04 pm

Silicondoc wrote:AMD still has terrible drivers and whole classes of cards that crash. Worse yet, often there are no fixes. The system must be rebooted, and it happens again, and again, and again... for YEARS literally people try to find a fix and there isn't one. A hundred different cures are offered and claimed but then a little time shows they really solved little or nothing, it was just the euphoria the user experienced as the dastardly system takedown issue was for a short time, not prevalent.
You can think I'm off all you want, but I'm not anywhere near off. Nvidia solves their issues 99 times out of 100 in sohrt order, while AMD has an endless, and continuing, and ever expanding list.
They did solve CRAPPY CF scaling, but that was present for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS before they finally came up to Nvidia levels...
You mention a single crash issue, but YOU KNOW in what area and game it crashed - unlike AMDATI cards, where ANY CRASH in ANY GAME at ANY TIME goes.
You won't EVER convince anyone who has a clue.


I was having TDR issues way, way back in the Geforce 6800 era. If this problem has gone on unresolved since that time then that's very bad news and who knows what it suggests.

We have 30 or so machines at work with varying ATI cards: X1300 pro, HD 2400 pro, FirePro V3800, one laptop with a Radeon so old I don't even know and one HD 6770; there's also one laptop with a Geforce in it. We don't really have any problems to speak of with any of the cards.

At home I've gone from HD 4850 to HD 5770 to HD 5870. Hmm... there was one problem I was having at home but I can't remember what it was - oh, yeah, it was when I first upgraded to Windows 7 and had the 4850 in there and I could not put the computer to sleep or else it would freeze on resume. That problem got fixed at some point, but it was pretty annoying for a stretch of many months. I very seriously considered going back to Vista but ended up just living with the issue. Upgrading to the 5770 fixed the problem.

But I think I've illustrated that I have enough experience with ATI drivers to be able to say with some decent level of credibility that ATI drivers are generally rock solid. If you're living life on the bleeding edge in terms of just-released games and such then it may be another story.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:48 pm

End User wrote:
JohnC wrote:I'm currently using GTX680

Cool. Which games? Noise? Temps? Which case are you using? OC tool?

I play various games, most of them in my Steam library, a few (ME3, BF3) in Origin library. Some MMORPG games like occasional LOTRO playing and participation in various beta programs (like the recent one for "Tera"). Everything runs perfectly. As for noise - I can't hear it over background (sound from speakers, etc.) noise so it's quiet enough for me (my room usually always stays cool - I have a dedicated A/C unit in it, so there's no reason for GPU/CPU fans to spin at max speed), at least as quiet as my previous ATI/AMD card (6950 "flashed" to 6970). I don't monitor GPU temps and I don't use any OC tools (even though EVGA has an excellent one) because I'm not into that anymore.
Last edited by JohnC on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:54 pm

flip-mode wrote:I was having TDR issues way, way back in the Geforce 6800 era. If this problem has gone on unresolved since that time then that's very bad news and who knows what it suggests.


That's strange. I still have my old Nvidia cards which I've used in the past (laying in their original boxes right now, for no practical purpose) - GF6800, 7900GTX and 8800GT. Never had a single issue with them and the drivers for them, as far as I can remember, and they were all used almost daily for several hours playing various games (back then when I had an insatiable addiction to playing games).
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:56 pm

I've been using Nvidia cards for years and only noticed the TDR issue starting with the Fermi chips. It didn't get completely fixed for me until I had updated the BIOS on my GTX460. I saved the original BIOS using GPU-Z and also looked at the updated BIOS. After comparing the two BIOS files in Nbitor I noticed the updated BIOS had slightly higher voltages for all 3 power states.

I think the issue is the card switching from low power 2D to low power 3D states, in some cases I think the card isn't supplying enough voltage for the clock speed increase. Hence the driver crashing during browsing is very common as it usually stays in 2D mode with some jumps to 3D low power.

I've only gotten a TDR once or twice during gaming and that was due to too high of an overclock, which again basically a voltage issue... not enough voltage for the clockspeed.


I've noticed a LOT of companies have released BIOS updates for GTX400/500 series cards, but a lot of people just don't update their video BIOS.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:34 pm

JohnC wrote:
flip-mode wrote:I was having TDR issues way, way back in the Geforce 6800 era. If this problem has gone on unresolved since that time then that's very bad news and who knows what it suggests.


That's strange. I still have my old Nvidia cards which I've used in the past (laying in their original boxes right now, for no practical purpose) - GF6800, 7900GTX and 8800GT. Never had a single issue with them and the drivers for them, as far as I can remember, and they were all used almost daily for several hours playing various games (back then when I had an insatiable addiction to playing games).

I misspoke. It was not TDRs, it was DPCs:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38601&p=518172#p518172

That issue never did get fixed until I put in a new video card.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:16 am

I suspect some of the TDR issues are from the DXVA codec and flash player plugin not playing not nicely with the drivers. I have seen and heard similar issues on the AMD/ATI camp. Sometimes updating DVXA codecs and flash player resolves the issues.

On that gaming side, it is not really that surprising at all. I have have dealt with bugs and CTD related issues with newly released games on AMD/Nvidia hardware. You usually have wait until next version or two before the issues get resolved. It is standard fare for being on the bleeding edge.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:34 am

I haven't seen any TDR's since upgrading to the 301.24 betas. Thing's gradually became better in recent releases but this new beta seems to be the cream of the crop. Nvidia has actually fixed the issue!

Some interesting facts since the start of this debacle:
  • 8 Months have passed since the issue was first reported.
  • The official Nvidia thread on this is reached 1.1 million views.
  • There have been 11 driver releases including beta leading up to the 'fix'.

Way to go Nvidia!
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:04 am

JohnC wrote:
flip-mode wrote:I was having TDR issues way, way back in the Geforce 6800 era. If this problem has gone on unresolved since that time then that's very bad news and who knows what it suggests.


That's strange. I still have my old Nvidia cards which I've used in the past (laying in their original boxes right now, for no practical purpose) - GF6800, 7900GTX and 8800GT. Never had a single issue with them and the drivers for them, as far as I can remember, and they were all used almost daily for several hours playing various games (back then when I had an insatiable addiction to playing games).

edit
Last edited by RAMBO on Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:09 am

Shadowdane wrote:I've been using Nvidia cards for years and only noticed the TDR issue starting with the Fermi chips. It didn't get completely fixed for me until I had updated the BIOS on my GTX460. I saved the original BIOS using GPU-Z and also looked at the updated BIOS. After comparing the two BIOS files in Nbitor I noticed the updated BIOS had slightly higher voltages for all 3 power states.

I think the issue is the card switching from low power 2D to low power 3D states, in some cases I think the card isn't supplying enough voltage for the clock speed increase. Hence the driver crashing during browsing is very common as it usually stays in 2D mode with some jumps to 3D low power.

I've only gotten a TDR once or twice during gaming and that was due to too high of an overclock, which again basically a voltage issue... not enough voltage for the clockspeed.


I've noticed a LOT of companies have released BIOS updates for GTX400/500 series cards, but a lot of people just don't update their video BIOS.


4870 (GDDR5), 5750, 5770 had similar problems, until later versions of AMD drivers increased the voltage on 2D mode for these cards. GSOD and other instability issues went away. The only people who voided these problems were people who forced their card to run at 3D mode all of the time (Overclocking).

It is quite possible that Nvidia/AMD are too aggressive on idle power consumption front. Brand-new hardware can handle it fine, but a few months down the road that hardware can't handle the large switch between voltages anymore.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Mon May 21, 2012 11:23 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:You might try rolling back to 295.73.



I hope i'm not speaking too soon but ever since i installed the 295.73 drivers i haven't experienced any TDR.

Anyone else?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue May 22, 2012 12:00 am

Arclight wrote:
Ryu Connor wrote:You might try rolling back to 295.73.



I hope i'm not speaking too soon but ever since i installed the 295.73 drivers i haven't experienced any TDR.

Anyone else?


I had roughly 3 TDRs a week on 295.73. Drove me insane. The only driver that's been completely TDR-free for me is 266.xx, which I've since reverted back to. I've tried every other WHQL release from then on and I get TDRs with all of them.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue May 22, 2012 7:21 am

Shadowdane wrote:I've been using Nvidia cards for years and only noticed the TDR issue starting with the Fermi chips. It didn't get completely fixed for me until I had updated the BIOS on my GTX460. I saved the original BIOS using GPU-Z and also looked at the updated BIOS. After comparing the two BIOS files in Nbitor I noticed the updated BIOS had slightly higher voltages for all 3 power states.
I think the issue is the card switching from low power 2D to low power 3D states, in some cases I think the card isn't supplying enough voltage for the clock speed increase. Hence the driver crashing during browsing is very common as it usually stays in 2D mode with some jumps to 3D low power.
I've noticed a LOT of companies have released BIOS updates for GTX400/500 series cards, but a lot of people just don't update their video BIOS.

My 470 has a similar issue, where adaptive mode causes the card problems and eventually sticks @50mhz, requiring a reboot. Using max performance works as a workaround. Unfortunately there is no updated bios available for my card. If I knew what settings would be safe and effective to use, I might try editing it, as well as the fan speed profile. I believe the max speed is set to 80% oddly enough. Probably to keep noise down. I wonder if support could send me a custom bios if I asked.

On a side issue, the 301.24 betas don't seem to work with madvr. -New 301.42 WHQL drivers fixed it.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue May 22, 2012 9:01 am

I've been keeping quiet, just because I wasn't having the issue. Had GTX260s, now have GTX460s, have run them singly and in SLI, have tried all sorts of settings, have had them installed on 4 or 5 different motherboards to date. Zero TDRs. Ever.


I think you have bad hardware somewhere. It's not a pure software problem, or I'd have it too.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue May 22, 2012 10:03 am

Forge wrote:I've been keeping quiet, just because I wasn't having the issue. Had GTX260s, now have GTX460s, have run them singly and in SLI, have tried all sorts of settings, have had them installed on 4 or 5 different motherboards to date. Zero TDRs. Ever.

Remember my Civ V crashes? They eventually vanished after a with new driver revision :)
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue May 22, 2012 10:49 am

Forge wrote:I've been keeping quiet, just because I wasn't having the issue. Had GTX260s, now have GTX460s, have run them singly and in SLI, have tried all sorts of settings, have had them installed on 4 or 5 different motherboards to date. Zero TDRs. Ever.
I think you have bad hardware somewhere. It's not a pure software problem, or I'd have it too.


It doesn't work that way. In order for you to make that claim you would need a machine that was identical to whomever you were making the comparison. Same MB, ideally same CPU, OS, memory, sound, etc. Any of the combinations could cause the issue.

I have a 460. In linux I've never had the driver crap out. In Windows however, when I'm gaming it happens probably every other time I play.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue May 22, 2012 11:12 am

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying you're imagining things, and I'm not disputing that TDRs are happening for you. What I am saying is that the cause seems to be being misdiagnosed, in some cases. Nvidia is not including MAKE_TDRS_HAPPEN=1 in the build process. I think there's a bit of hardware that's borderline on most cards, and some drivers don't monitor/detect problems with that bit. Card replacements don't often help, but sometimes they do, which makes me think the hardware is related.

Changing drivers does help, but only in very broad ranges, and those ranges are consistent for most observers (pre-260 plus three unrelated build numbers, but not the others between or since, that sort of thing).

Take it or leave it, I'm not stating a conclusion, just my observations. I believe you're seeing Nvidia implementing a check for a hardware condition, and causing a TDR when it happens. Presumably this is to prevent/correct some subtle problem that wasn't visible.

Morphine - Your Civ V issues were completely unrelated. Civ V had some really horrible DX11 code, and Nvidia worked around it eventually.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:28 am

Has there been any updates with this topic, mostly regarding the 560 ti drivers that work best?
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:25 am

i got so sick of the Nvida driver hell, I ended up removing the card from my system and replacing it with an ATI card. I will -never- go back to Nvidia. The new ATI card has been running error/crash free ever since the replacement. I have never been happier.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:03 am

I replaced one of my GTX460s with a HD6850 and now the TDR issue has completely gone!

I have to admit, over the last decade I've had all kinds of annoyances with nvidia drivers. Custom refresh rates, GPU resolution scaling quirks, HDTV settings refusing to stay applied etc.
AMD drivers by contrast have been absolutely rock solid in Windows. The worst exception I have come accross is an occasional transparent textures alignment problem on older Radeons under directX. Barely noticeable and it goes away if you disable Catalyst AI.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:48 am

Probably want to junk or RMA those NVIDIA based cards. Odds are they were defective hardware.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:08 am

I haven't seen much of it lately, but OTOH I discovered the most reliable way to make it happen was to be browsing Disqus-based comment forums while using Firefox, which I haven't been doing as much lately.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:55 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:Probably want to junk or RMA those NVIDIA based cards. Odds are they were defective hardware.

I guess the true test will be after installing in the new Ubuntu 64b linux media server... If anything malfuntions, then it'll definitely be sent off to RMA-land... Otherwise, windows drivers will be 100% blamed.
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Re: Unsolved Nvidia TDR Issues - This needs some attention..

Postposted on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:11 am

Ryu Connor wrote:Probably want to junk or RMA those NVIDIA based cards. Odds are they were defective hardware.


No, I ruled that out. I first started seeing it with my 768MB GTX460, and whilst it happened occasionally under almost any situation, I could reliably force it to happen within 5-10 minutes when the PC was loaded in a certain way (Firefox, World of Warcraft, Windows Aero enabled). I tried it with an 8800GTS, then I swapped in another GTX 460 from another machine, and the problem persisted when I borrowed a GTX570 from the office.

HD6850 and it's never happened since....
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