Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

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Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:36 am

It's pre-game party time. Geforce GTX 680 rumors have started flying thick and fast. Rumors regarding the whole HD 7000 series line ended up being almost completely accurate, especially from the 3rd week of Dec 2011 and onward. That is no guarantee that the same will be true for Geforce GTX 680 rumors.

Fudzilla: Nvidia aims for record quarter
Fudzilla: GTX 680 pictures, specs, prices
Fudzilla: GTX 680 toe to toe with HD 7970, better performance per watt
SemiAccurate: Launch dates, availability questions due to TSMC having shut down 28 nm production
SemiAccurate: TSMC halts 28 nm production
Fudzilla: Nvidia slide showing GTX 680 specifications
Fudzilla: Nvidia slide showing GTX 680 performance

The overall trend of the rumors seems to be this: After seeing the HD 7970 Nvidia may have realigned its products and what will be the GTX 680 may previously have been the GTX 670. The card was planned to launch at $299 but Nvidia is now setting it to $550 since it matches up with HD 7970 very well.

The preview NDA supposedly lifts on March 12, with cards hitting retail some time around March 23-26.

But - and no surprise here - TSMC has apparently encountered some kind of huge problem and has halted 28 nm production. This could mean good initial availability of GTX 680 since they've probably been stockpiling for launch for some weeks now, but then supplies could run dry. Supplies of Radeon 7000 cards should also start running dry, I'd think, if TSMC has shut down all 28 nm production. So we could be in for a few weeks drought in the supply of 28 nm video cards.

Meanwhile, some of you may have noticed that stocks of HD 69xx cards are almost completely dried up. HD 68xx cards remain abundant. This suggests that AMD may not be in a hurry to retire HD 68xx but that they have done an extremely efficient job of managing the stock of HD 69xx in the retail channels.

If there's a bottom line that from all of this it could be that AMD's pricing of the HD 7000 series may end up effing us all over if Nvidia looks to match those price/performance targets. AMD and Nvidia end up making some nice profit. We end up either clinging to old cards longer or we pay more for the new ones, and we experience little to no improvement in the price/performance curve over the last 12-18 months.
Last edited by flip-mode on Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:42 am

Guess S|A was wrong on March 12.

This 28nm shutdown sounds very serious, since TSMC responded to it without denying it.

Fudzilla with their ridiculous repetitive syntax vs S|A's informal, aggressive tone. Is this really the best the industry has in rumour reporting?
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:02 am

Game_boy wrote:Fudzilla with their ridiculous repetitive syntax vs S|A's informal, aggressive tone. Is this really the best the industry has in rumour reporting?
Yeah, I hear you. These folks aren't so mighty at the craft of writing. S|A articles, in particular, tend to be offensively verbose, repetitive, and littered with tangent's and trail-offs. Charlie can turn a paragraphs worth of material into a 20 page term paper.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:26 am

So all our whinging about the 7850 and 7970 being priced too high and not shifting the performance-price curve any means that nvidia are just going to cash in a make some nice money while they let AMD catch up on the design front?...

I guess if you were nvidia you don't want to "kill" off your competition, just keep them a lame duck.

I'm still annoyed if the $550 price is true. I could have handled $500 for the "true" 680, but not $550 for the rebadged 670 ti.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:58 am

flip-mode wrote:
Game_boy wrote:...


The interesting thing is that Charlie's forum posts tend to be much more reasonable and informative. He deliberately puts on that style when writing articles, and so I conclude it is working for getting hits and he knows it.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:07 am

yogibbear wrote:So all our whinging about the 7850 and 7970 being priced too high and not shifting the performance-price curve any means that nvidia are just going to cash in a make some nice money while they let AMD catch up on the design front?... I guess if you were nvidia you don't want to "kill" off your competition, just keep them a lame duck. I'm still annoyed if the $550 price is true. I could have handled $500 for the "true" 680, but not $550 for the rebadged 670 ti.
If the now gtx 680 was the gtx 670, then what happens to what was previously the gtx 680, I wonder. Heck, this is tantamount to Nvidia throwing in the towel on a high end GPU and playing follow the AMD leader.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:19 am

Game_boy wrote:
flip-mode wrote:
Game_boy wrote:...


The interesting thing is that Charlie's forum posts tend to be much more reasonable and informative. He deliberately puts on that style when writing articles, and so I conclude it is working for getting hits and he knows it.

I don't think they ever claim to be formal professional journalistic pieces. They are put squarely in the category of "tabloids". That's the style for it, right? ;)

flip-mode wrote:We end up either clinging to old cards longer or we pay more for the new ones, and we experience little to no improvement in the price/performance curve over the last 12-18 months.

I don't think I can hang on to my GT240 when D3 comes. :o :-?
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:26 am

Flying Fox wrote:I don't think they ever claim to be formal professional journalistic pieces. They are put squarely in the category of "tabloids". That's the style for it, right? ;)


Of course; he can do what he wants. I'd like a just-the-facts compilation of rumours, with sources. As is, if 20 sites are saying "it's a 200W card" is that 20 sources independently confirming or 1 source plagiarised 19 times (mostly the latter)?

I don't think I can hang on to my GT240 when D3 comes. :o :-?


It's never coming out, don't worry.

I'm waiting for HOTS and that's never coming out as well.

Also if SC2 runs on my Intel-integrated-G965-from-2007 why would D3 need something >GT240?
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:49 am

No party in here, I'm ridiculously disappointed about this. The GK104 was supposed to be the $200-300 performance part. But since the performance of the 79xx series did not challenge it, it's now rebadged as the top of the line 680. That means I'll have to wait for the GK106 which was supposed to be the lower mainstream part. Wonderfulll... I might just get the 7850 if it becomes slightly cheaper. Nvidia's pricing is just taking advantage of their superior architecture as clearly they are in no rush to release their true top of the line GK110. Lose, lose here for the consumer.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:07 pm

I'm hugging my $150 HD 5870 8) In 18 months when all these new cards that are worth upgrading to are affordable, I might get one.

Now all I need is a game that can challenge the 5870 at 1600x1200... and none of this gaming business is going to help me study for the ARE. :x
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:42 pm

revcrisis wrote:No party in here, I'm ridiculously disappointed about this. The GK104 was supposed to be the $200-300 performance part. But since the performance of the 79xx series did not challenge it, it's now rebadged as the top of the line 680. That means I'll have to wait for the GK106 which was supposed to be the lower mainstream part. Wonderfulll... I might just get the 7850 if it becomes slightly cheaper. Nvidia's pricing is just taking advantage of their superior architecture as clearly they are in no rush to release their true top of the line GK110. Lose, lose here for the consumer.


Not only that, but according to fudzilla they will be matching the 7970 price tag at $550 :evil: (Bend over and grab your ankles while we count our money)
Last edited by DPete27 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:48 pm

Game_boy wrote:Also if SC2 runs on my Intel-integrated-G965-from-2007 why would D3 need something >GT240?

I don't think your GMA X3100 runs SC2 even at medium, but I know for sure that a GT240 can run it on medium at high resolutions (1920x1080). For that reason, I think the GT240 will still be fine for HotS and D3.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:54 pm

.
Last edited by clone on Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:58 pm

Guess I'm waiting another gen to upgrade my GPU. I've become to comfortable with the price war that used to rage. The prospect of paying more than 250 for a baller card is not appealing to me :P
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:11 pm

clone wrote:when was the last time Nvidia released a rumor that didn't promise the sun, the sky, the moon, their superiority?.......best card ever? really? did anyone expect GTX 680 to be inferior to GTX 580? is Nvidia the new Apple where fans flock and rejoice at the pathological, defy reality, ignore common sense and embrace vapor as gold? it's comical, their is a comment proclaiming the bottom line being that we must blame AMD for the price hike Nvidia is rumored to be introducing.... really, AMD the company that radically dropped the price of gaming just a cppl generations ago is totally at fault for Nvidia raising the prices of their video cards back to where Nvidia had them before? Apple like reality distortion field? double standard to be certain.
Flip-Mode wrote:If there's a bottom line that from all of this it could be that AMD's pricing of the HD 7000 series may end up effing us all over if Nvidia looks to match those price/performance targets.
apparently it's all AMD's fault as poor Nvidia is forced to rake in all that cash despite always having wished they were a not for profit charity in another life.... "effing AMD" making Nvidia earn a profit. p.s. when HD 79xx came out it dropped the price of high end cards.... but whatever it's all AMD's fault because. p.s.s their is no party in here, it's just a poor reflection.

Would you just stop getting your panties twisted. AMD's pricing was the first domino, the first shot fired, whatever. It set the tone and the rumor is that Nvidia seems only pleased to match. The fact is that Nvidia has had buckets of problems producing hardware for the past couple of generations. Nvidia is essentially waving the white flag here and what is probably happening is that instead of launching the 500 mm sq monster they had intended to launch, they're shelving it for now and simply hiking up the price of what would have been their midrange GPU. I don't care which fanboy set I happen to ruffle. Today I get the privilege of ruffling both :D
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:30 pm

Just as long as you stop rubbing yourself over the 5870 purchase, you may continue to whip up animosity any way you desire. :)

Fact: I'm going to buy a $250 bracket next gen card and I'm going to enjoy it. I'm mostly looking forward to very low idle consumption and fan noise.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:44 pm

cegras wrote:Just as long as you stop rubbing yourself over the 5870 purchase, you may continue to whip up animosity any way you desire. :)

Doh! Alright, Marge.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:31 pm

I really don't appreciate the different price structures.

AMD seems to have done away with their money saver method of focusing on the 300 dollar price point.

Nvidia seems to not care to fill the void in their lineup, they typically offer a decent 200-250 card mixed in with a bunch of strangely rebranded cards from last gen and put out a strangely balanced 300-400 dollar card that just feels either too expensive or too weak, then a strong but irrevocably highly priced 500 plus card that is best on the market... doesn't matter cause no one can afford it. Nvidia proceeds to stack all their good drive functionality like multi monitor support etc on the high end cards making you flock to AMD if you have any sense. End of the day there are two reasonable offerings and lots of empty space inbetween. The fact that Nvidia has a grade schooler come up with its naming scheme is never good. I mean if I was any less informed I could easily accidently buy one of the similarly named re-branded 8800 GT cards floating around :P

Mean while AMD struggles to offer products that don't conflict with or compete with each-other then makes some dual GPU cards that are just pointless at their price points.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:32 pm

Isn't is possible that this was the plan all around? Everything has been "rumors" after all. Nvidia has always priced things high, this seems like something they would do.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:47 pm

It probably went like this. Nvidia planned on releasing GK104 as the 670 T.I. at roughly $300 to compete with the 7950. But, when the 79xx series came out, NV realized that their $299 card actually beats the 7970 in some benchmarks. This is when the whole "disappointed with AMD's SI" quotes came out from the NV PR camp. Nvidia looked as the obscene price of the 7970, renames their card to the GTX 680, added $250 to the launch price, and calls it a day.

So yes, AMD fired the first shot with their ridiculous high prices and NV was more than happy to follow suit. As a whole, GPU advancement was not pushed forward as much as it could have been. The GK110 will probably become the next generation of Nvidia 7xx series cards which is what's most disappointing. It could have been this generation, but it won't.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:13 pm

revcrisis wrote:It probably went like this. Nvidia planned on releasing GK104 as the 670 T.I. at roughly $300 to compete with the 7950. But, when the 79xx series came out, NV realized that their $299 card actually beats the 7970 in some benchmarks. This is when the whole "disappointed with AMD's SI" quotes came out from the NV PR camp. Nvidia looked as the obscene price of the 7970, renames their card to the GTX 680, added $250 to the launch price, and calls it a day.

So yes, AMD fired the first shot with their ridiculous high prices and NV was more than happy to follow suit. As a whole, GPU advancement was not pushed forward as much as it could have been. The GK110 will probably become the next generation of Nvidia 7xx series cards which is what's most disappointing. It could have been this generation, but it won't.


I guess I'm just saying how can you know that this part wasn't always suppose to be the 680 and that everything else was just FUD?
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:16 pm

There's the whole 'nvidia saw ATI's cards were crap and repositioned everything,' or there's the 'nvidia is releasing what it can, 3 months after competition.'
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:42 pm

cegras wrote:There's the whole 'nvidia saw ATI's cards were crap and repositioned everything,' or there's the 'nvidia is releasing what it can, 3 months after competition.'


I think saying that this was your low end card and pricing it to match the competitor's top end card is a better marketing scheme, even if this is really what they just have to release. Who knows at this point. x.x
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:56 pm

StuG wrote:I guess I'm just saying how can you know that this part wasn't always suppose to be the 680 and that everything else was just FUD?

Nobody *knows* this, but this is what the rumor mill says. It's been said a couple of places, and it's really not all that far fetched. If you were in Nvidia's shoes:

*running behind
*GK100 big mama 500+ mm top end chip still isn't nearly done and will probably take till late in 2012 to finish
*competition launches their new fastest card for $550 and you realize the midrange card that you are able to make pretty well matches it

What can you do in this situation? Change the 7 to an 8, charge what you normally do for an 8 level card, profit. Then take a breath and decide if you really need to launch the GK100 or if the GK104 is good enough for this generation.

************

On the other hand, AMD may be in a very good position to spoil any such plan by simply taking a giant whack off the prices of it's cards. But I think this is pretty unlikely.

**********

And the real bad news here is the trouble that TSMC is apparently having with 28 nm. That could all mean higher prices on the new generation of cards for a long time yet. We could be looking at a 40 nm scenario again where it takes 9 months to get 28 nm right and then it's 2.5 years before we move on from 28 nm again.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:17 pm

The 7970 is 365mm^2. The plan can't have been for a 500mm^2+ Nvidia GPU to just match it.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:54 pm

In trying to figure out this thread, I'm aghast at the lack of supply and demand reasoning in these posts.

1. Running a game on a single monitor (unless it's 27"/30") doesn't need a high end card anymore- $200 cards are just fine. Blame it on the consoles stagnating development or lazy developers or whatever you like, the demand for higher-end cards just isn't there.
2. Process issues. Both AMD and Nvidia have been behind for generations on their multi-year plans due to issues with fabrication. GPU's also cost more per unit as process nodes shrink (WITH inflation accounted for), no doubt about it.
3. One and two affect pricing today- if there's less demand for higher end GPUs, there's more demand for midrange parts- so AMD can afford to keep the prices high on their last-generation stuff while the bleed out inventory. They do this by keeping the prices high for the new magic. Further, Nvidia would be outright stupid to not follow suit. Expect Nvidia to continue to price their cards higher than AMD for the same performance (this hasn't changed in years), which means that whatever card matches up with the HD7970- regardless of what it was intended to be and it's intended price- will be the GTX680 and cost ~$50 more than an HD7970.

I'm with the rest of you on lamenting that this process has taken place; but essentially due to the lack of demand for higher end parts, competition has waned. The good news from my perspective is, though, that once the glut of 40nm parts starts to dry up, we should start seeing competition increase at all performance levels and observe subsequent price drops.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:09 pm

Game_boy wrote:The 7970 is 365mm^2. The plan can't have been for a 500mm^2+ Nvidia GPU to just match it.

I'm guessing you're not familiar with Nvidia's approach to GPUs for the last few years, which has been to make the most powerful GPUs possible and push die size to the limits. That has generally resulted in 500+ mm die sizes for Nvidia's top of the line GPU for a few generations now. So, no, Nvidia hasn't tired to have a top end GPU that matches up with AMD's top end GPU, rather Nvidia's top GPU has typically been a whole tier above AMD's top GPU.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:24 pm

If Nvidia can not get mass production going by early April, AMD will be ready to sling out the 8xxx just a couple of months later.

Example, GeForce 6xx nicely available in July/August.
AMD releases 8xxx in December.

That gap is frightenly "small" to be a "generation" ahead of the competition.

Ooooo, the fight will be good. *grabs popcorn*

EDIT: And as a reminder, the bigger the chip to make, the higher the possibility for mistakes in the process. Just in case anyone forgot.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:27 pm

To anybody thinking that the 680 is going to be a massive power hog... online photos of the board are clearly showing that it only has two of the six-pin power connectors. The 7970 & 7950 have one six pin & one eight pin connector. Doing the math, the 680 is a sub-200 watt part just because it isn't physically supplied with enough juice to go above that level.
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Re: Geforce GTX 680 pre-game party

Postposted on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:29 pm

I love this thread.

Speculation on silicon that hasn't even reached public hands. :roll:

Can people just wait for the final product to come out?

Anyway, my take on the matter is that the days of rapid jumps in performance, features and so forth are over.

Silicon has been running out of steam and engineering difficulties involved in making more and more complex designs are catching up.
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