How do you notice frame "time" issues?

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Re: How do you notice frame "time" issues?

Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:43 pm

Now that we've all agreed on the usage of poor language and good intentions, can the thread proceed, please?
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Re: How do you notice frame "time" issues?

Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:47 pm

I love how the crossfire config is used as a "case in point", when crossfire/sli have always had frame time issues, and are heavily dependent on application profiling. Perfect bait and switch here, not to mention the card it's being compared against is the $1,000 Titan. Of course it's going to turn out this way, but are you going to spend $1,000 to get that experience? I'm sure as hell not.

Now when we read the aforementioned article in full context we see:
When I asked Nvidia about this game, they said they believe there may be some problems with the application itself.

This pretty much validates my point about frame latency issues being primarily software/driver based. Question: Is the 7950's hardware still being considered deficient in Borderlands 2? That's what you're insinuating anyway, when it's quite obvious that scenario was driver dependent. Do you know what REALLY is hardware deficient? AA, compute, resolution, and maybe even tessellation in the 660 Ti. There is a real deficiency there with a crippled memory bus. Framerate benchmarks show that, latency ones don't. Frame rates aren't just important, they are vastly more important than frame times, as there is less chance for bias and config rigging. I'm not saying frame times aren't useful, but they need to be taken in proper perspective, as there are way more outside variables that effect frame time than frame rate. I agree that there is some hardware connection to frame times, like Fermi memory limitations, or Amd's VLIW cards tessellation performance, but for the most part frame times are software / driver issues, and TR is trumping them up WAY more than is necessary outside of brand bias. AMD isn't going to win a competition based on drivers, so we might as well call it right now for Nvidia. Nvidia wins. Forever.

I also like how the Fermi issues in BF3 were brought up, but nowhere to be seen in the 7950 / 660 Ti report. They didn't exist. The Fermi issues might have been from the card running out of memory, but since none of the larger 2-3gb memory cards were tested, we'll never know. Lack of perspective is a serious problem, which is a good reason to totally disregard most testing based on frame times. Frame times complement frame rates, not the other way around.
The product that works best now must be assumed to be superior until proven otherwise.

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Frame Times are 100% driver dependent with new releases.
Last edited by l33t-g4m3r on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How do you notice frame "time" issues?

Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:51 pm

Waits for the bolt of lightning ...
It is one of the blessings of old friends that you can afford to be stupid with them. Ralph Waldo Emerson.
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Re: How do you notice frame "time" issues?

Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:04 pm

l33t-g4m3r wrote:
When I asked Nvidia about this game, they said they believe there may be some problems with the application itself.

This pretty much validates my point about frame latency issues being primarily software/driver based.

That was one situation. That validates an all-encompassing affirmation just like the one you provided?

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Frame rates aren't just important, they are vastly more important than frame times

One would imagine if you're even paying attention at all. Have you watched any movies lately? Hint: they're at 24 fps.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:...as there is less chance for bias and config rigging.

Your tinfoil hat is fuming.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:but for the most part frame times are software / driver issues

A couple paragraphs before you were talking about deficient hardware in the 660Ti? Make up your mind.

l33t-g4m3r wrote:and TR is trumping them up WAY more than is necessary outside of brand bias. AMD isn't going to win a competition based on drivers

Was this sarcasm? TR is trumpeting driver issues too much, so... you say it should stop doing that because you think AMD isn't going to ever get it right?

l33t-g4m3r wrote:Lack of perspective is a serious problem, which is a good reason to totally disregard most testing based on frame times. Frame times complement frame rates, not the other way around.

The only "lack of perspective" here is yours, added to a lack of logic, and obviously a lack of reading comprehension, because after all this time you still haven't understood what frame time testing is or what it does.

You're just too gung-ho on pointing out a "bias" that you're willing to twist logic and reality to suit your distorted view (all the while constantly contradicting yourself). One has to wonder if you're just trolling for the sake of it.
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Re: How do you notice frame "time" issues?

Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:14 pm

morphine wrote: but for the most part frame times are software / driver issues


A couple paragraphs before you were talking about deficient hardware in the 660Ti? Make up your mind.

Really? Did you just go there? ROTFLMAO. The 660 Ti for the most part has slower framerate, but cleaner frametimes. If you're looking to get better framerate in higher resolution, the 660 Ti would NOT be the card to get, but you guys pretend otherwise with the frame time metric, therefore wasting $300 of some poor schmucks money following the recommendation, which he then will end up buying a 670 or 680 after being unsatisfied with the poor performance and doubling Nvidia's profits. The 660 is essentially a planned obsolescence card, not to mention the whole compute deficiency thing.
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Re: How do you notice frame "time" issues?

Postposted on Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:17 pm

Ok, so you are indeed just trolling. Thread locked.
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