AMD's new proprietary API

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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:42 pm

Waco wrote:I'm fairly sure he was referring to Mantle there...in which case yes, all blame lies on AMD when things go wrong.

Ah yea, on the initial read, I thought they were referring to the D3D API instead of the Mantle API. The context is still a bit ambiguous, but yea, AMD would be at fault if Mantle falls over.

That's actually one of my major concerns. If all Mantle does is replace the D3D API with something that lets application directly talk to the user-mode driver, that's fine since it won't be any less stable than the vanilla D3D API. If, however, AMD is somehow bypassing the Windows driver stack or the WDDM requirements then that scares me because that puts us back to the days where a bug in a game could bring your whole system down.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:13 pm

PixelArmy wrote:
clone wrote:While doing a complete port to PC wouldn't be a mirror of the console code it'd be stunningly close with mirror images of large portions.

Mantle ports will be the "lazy" ports... The ones devs do just because they can.

"Real" ports will still need to support non-GCN cards which includes a large number of Radeon 6xxx and below and obviously nVidia cards. Steam HW Survey (Aug) - I don't know how "Other" breaks down, but GCN cards - Radeon 7xxx series - only accounts for like 5%... There's a reason why BF4 will still have a DX code path, they don't want to just throw away a huge part of the market. This number will obviously go up, but that will take a while as this is a chicken and egg scenario.


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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:35 am

This looks like a good read.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:20 am

Jigar wrote:This looks like a good read.
It isn't though. It's just a shameless advertorial.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:11 am

auxy wrote:
Jigar wrote:This looks like a good read.
It isn't though. It's just a shameless advertorial.


Funny, Nvidia's marketing team member also told me the same.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:45 pm

Well, Nvidia if anybody should know one when they see it, they've toted phys X and TWIMTBP for ages with less progress to show for it.

And I would say it's only shameless if it turns out to be wrong, and just because it is not a fully objective look at it, doesn't mean it's without merit. That said, until we get actual developer code running out in the free, it is still only tons of speculation.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:44 pm

Aphasia wrote:That said, until we get actual developer code running out in the free, it is still only tons of speculation.


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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:15 pm

Mantle is being deeply integrated into the frostbite engine targeting an essentially fixed hardware specification. Once that is completed EA should be able to generate Mantle optimizations for all it's frostbite games nearly automatically. For the next 8 or so years. An extremely worthwhile investment.

"Designed in collaboration with top game developers" said an AMD slide at the Hawaii event.

Not seeing how that could be much clearer. What EA see as advantageous all the major developers/game engines will too.

The same deep integration in all the major engines allowing for those near automatic optimizations to AMD fixed spec GCN hardware for all but free. For the next decade.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:23 pm

spigzone wrote:"Designed in collaboration with top game developers" said an AMD slide at the Hawaii event.

Man, falling for marketing much? I mean, every manufacturer makes every kind of promise all the time. Why should we treat this one differently? I'll believe it if it actually pans out.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:54 pm

morphine wrote:
spigzone wrote:"Designed in collaboration with top game developers" said an AMD slide at the Hawaii event.

Man, falling for marketing much? I mean, every manufacturer makes every kind of promise all the time. .


A exquisite booger of undifferentiated unreasoned generalization.
Last edited by spigzone on Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:58 pm

What do you know, I was right? Straight from the official AMD Radeon twitter:
AMD Radeon twitter wrote:Mantle is NOT in consoles. What Mantle creates for the PC is a development environment that's *similar* to the consoles, which already offer low-level APIs, close-to-metal programming, easier development and more (vs. the complicated PC environment). By creating a more console-like developer environment, Mantle: improves time to market; reduces development costs; and allows for considerably more efficient rendering, improving performance for gamers. The console connection is made because next-gen uses Radeon, so much of the programming they're doing for the consoles are already well-suited to a modern Radeon architecture on the desktop; that continuum is what allows Mantle to exist. ^RH
So there you have it. Mantle is NOT in consoles. What a pointless pile of garbage.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:30 pm

.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:51 pm

You're on point clone- though I'm not sure what else there is to talk about regarding Mantle until we actually get to see it in action from different perspectives.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:42 am

.
Last edited by clone on Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:49 am

spigzone wrote:A exquisite booger of undifferentiated unreasoned generalization signifying nothing.

So wait, I'm not reasoning because I don't feel like buying into company XYZ's Kool Aid? Who's "unreasoning" here? Thinking like that, I'd still be waiting for my Glaze3D, or camping in front of an Apple store every time they announce something new or "new", or preordering a 290X.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:31 am

clone wrote:
So there you have it. Mantle is NOT in consoles. What a pointless pile of garbage.

the end result is the same.... a low level API that allows games to be easily ported between all gaming platforms save mobile and Steambox which doesn't apply or isn't out yet... and doesn't apply yet.


HSA/GCN is coming x86 mobile in 1H 2014.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:38 am

morphine wrote:
spigzone wrote:A exquisite booger of undifferentiated unreasoned generalization signifying nothing.

So wait, I'm not reasoning because I don't feel like buying into company XYZ's Kool Aid? Who's "unreasoning" here? Thinking like that, I'd still be waiting for my Glaze3D, or camping in front of an Apple store every time they announce something new or "new", or preordering a 290X.


Saying "every manufacturer makes every kind of promise all the time" to rationalize that what AMD said on an official slide at an official presentation has no validity is the antithesis of reason and rationality.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:47 am

spigzone wrote:Saying "every manufacturer makes every kind of promise all the time" to rationalize that what AMD said on an official slide at an official presentation has no validity is the antithesis of reason and rationality.

:lol:

You're a funny guy.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:51 am

spigzone wrote:Saying "every manufacturer makes every kind of promise all the time" to rationalize that what AMD said on an official slide at an official presentation has no validity is the antithesis of reason and rationality.

Just because someone said anything does not make it guarantee...morphine is just saying the equivalent of, "I'll believe it when I see it."

EDIT: If you really want to talk about claims falling short, we can open up Peter Molyneux's Greatest Hits...
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:28 am

clone wrote:yep, agree, nowhere to go for now.


I don't think spigzone got the hint...
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:10 am

superjawes wrote:EDIT: If you really want to talk about claims falling short, we can open up Peter Molyneux's Greatest Hits...

Man, how did I miss that one? :o
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:08 pm

Aaaand, Mantle won't be available on the XBox one: clicky.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:13 pm

morphine wrote:Aaaand, Mantle won't be available on the XBox one: clicky.


We've said that bro, over and over and over...

Mantle is the interface for GCN outside of the consoles- the consoles already have their own 'Mantle-like' API built in, customized for each to operate within their respective software environments. It's what allows games built for those APIs, which themselves expose more of GCN in a more direct manner than either DirectX or OpenGL can yet do, to take advantage of their previously console-specific coding.

Whether it will just make porting to AMD easier on the PC and related platforms or actually provide a tangible benefit to end users is still up in the air.
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:15 pm

Airmantharp wrote:We've said that bro, over and over and over...

Right, but now there's official word. No more "maybe". :)
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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:12 am

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Re: AMD's new proprietary API

Postposted on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:10 pm

Well, we've got the BF4 port obviously and everyone's talking about that, but still plenty for the main thread...this is still the main thread right?
http://www.maximumpc.com/AMD_Mantle_Interview_2014
Maximum PC: Does OpenGL face the same limitations? It’s also a pretty old API at this point.

Baker: OpenGL has essentially all the core problems of D3D, except that one can add extensions to it. The main difference between OpenGL and D3D is that D3D made an attempt to be threaded, and failed, whereas OpenGL has not yet attempted it. One question is whether it is worth building a new API or making a bunch of extensions to an existing API. You can get some mileage out of making extensions, but extensions can't bridge things like being able to use multiple CPUs. Also, at some point it's cleaner and easier just to hit the reset button, rather than throw yet another feature in a fairly big API. Believe it or not, Mantle is actually easier to support than OpenGL. OpenGL has many unobvious pitfalls and traps, whereas Mantle really doesn't.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Te ... adi-Riguer
Q: Johan also described Mantle as being able to address any and all compatible GPUs. Will this support and encourage users to leave past generation GPUs in their systems, during upgrades, for applications which can effectively load balance?

[Guennadi] Mantle definitely offers more options for handling multiple GPUs beyond how they could be used in AMD CrossFire(tm) configurations. It's up to game developers to decide how to leverage those configurations, and in the future we hope to see more use of the asymmetric configurations.

Q: How will Mantle tie in with HSA features? For instance, can both halves of an APU collaborate while discrete GPUs are busy drawing? For example, during AI update code which blends serial (logic) and parallel (pathfinding and visibility) tasks?

[Guennadi] This is something we'll need to evaluate in the future. Right now HSA and Mantle try to solve different sets of problems, but there is certainly room for overlap at some point.
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