AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

From the pixels, bits, and shaders to the graphic cards that power them. Discuss the latest from AMD and NVIDIA here.

Moderators: morphine, SecretSquirrel

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:13 pm

Airmantharp wrote:BF4 is a 'bridge' game, not a fully next-gen game :).

What will be the first next-gen game?
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:31 pm

End User wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:BF4 is a 'bridge' game, not a fully next-gen game :).

What will be the first next-gen game?


Beats me- but if it can run on a PS3 or 360, it really isn't.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|24/2.8 IS USM|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
Airmantharp
Gerbil Elder
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 5074
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:42 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
End User wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:BF4 is a 'bridge' game, not a fully next-gen game :).

What will be the first next-gen game?


Beats me- but if it can run on a PS3 or 360, it really isn't.

Perhaps Tom Clancy’s The Division will mark the new dawn (Q4 2014).
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:52 pm

"The Witcher 3 pushing next gen consoles to their limits"
http://www.game-debate.com/news/?news=8 ... its&page=4
My subscription allows you people to exist on this site and makes me a better human being than you'll ever be
JohnC
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm
Location: NY/NJ/FL

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:01 am

auxy wrote:Did you even read my post? That's more or less what I said, or, at least, the obvious recommendation based on what I said.

I did, and yes, while you come to the same conclusion, your reasons for doing so are totally wrong (both the car and GPU explanations).

Anyway - I wouldn't buy anything till the new AMD cards come out and prices fall into line. Who knows? Perhaps AMD will pull another 4870 miracle. I doubt it but they have done it before.


Techgoudy - Crossfire (as of the past few years) is a mess in general. My previous setup of dual 7970s, preceded by a 5970 (5870 Crossfire on-a-stick), preceded by dual 4870X2s (4870 Quadfire) always left a foul taste in my mouth. That said, AMD could very well fix things with the new cards. Precedent leads one to believe that it'll still be fundamentally broken but nobody knows at this point. Again, wait till the 290X hits.
Z68XP-UD4 | 2700K @ 4.7 GHz | 16 GB | GTX 780 | PCP&C Silencer 950 | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 / X3 | D5 + RP-452X2 | HAF 932 | 480 GB Extreme Pro
Waco
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:05 am

JohnC wrote:"The Witcher 3 pushing next gen consoles to their limits"
http://www.game-debate.com/news/?news=8 ... its&page=4

The environment loads in real time as you move through it. It sounds as if it is stressing the storage/app memory space more than anything else (neither of which will be issues on a decent PC). We'll have to wait and see it in action before we really know what to expect on the PC.
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:20 am

I don't know what it will "stress" (the dynamic LOD will most likely be manually adjustable on PC version) but even the old (by now) Witcher 2 was pretty "stressful" at max settings (using SSAA/ubersampling) even when playing on my Titan (I've seen FPS drop to around 40fps).
My subscription allows you people to exist on this site and makes me a better human being than you'll ever be
JohnC
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm
Location: NY/NJ/FL

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:00 pm

JohnC wrote:I don't know what it will "stress" (the dynamic LOD will most likely be manually adjustable on PC version) but even the old (by now) Witcher 2 was pretty "stressful" at max settings (using SSAA/ubersampling) even when playing on my Titan (I've seen FPS drop to around 40fps).


Witcher 2 raped my system- 4.5GHz 2500k, 2xGTX670 2GB- to the point that I was dropping settings to keep it playable- after turning off 'ubersampling', which wasn't even a consideration.

And it's not even that good looking of a game, really- it just makes the point that, like Crysis 1, it's stupendously easy to make a badly optimized game that simply cannot run well. The Witcher 2 is more an example of just how easy it is to overblow effects than it is of bad optimizations, of course, but the overall point is that almost every game out there suffers from that problem.

As for real 'next generation' games, what I"m looking for is games that have so much going on engine-wise that they could never be scaled down to run on the current-gen consoles, along with the assets to really take advantage of the extra memory available and the scene complexity (both in geometry in flight and in post-processing) to really stress current graphics systems. BF4 is close, but it's obvious that the engine is still built around the limited conventions that are necessitated by support for current-gen consoles, even though it can be scaled well on the PC like BF3 does.

So The Witcher 3 may be one- but I'm sure there are plenty. My lack of knowledge is more a function of lack of interest than anything else; I have about a dozen single-player oriented games that I haven't really gotten into, so I'm not really excited about what's coming next, outside of BF4.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L IS USM|70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|40/2.8 STM|50/1.4 USM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8 Full-Manual Rectilinear Wide-angle|24/2.8 IS USM|
Canon EOS-M|11-22/4-5.6 IS STM|22/2 STM|EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM|
Airmantharp
Gerbil Elder
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 5074
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:59 am

End User wrote:Question away!
I ... I just did. Is English not your first language?
End User wrote:Silly me.I thought we were talking about cars. And as far as cars go there is a replacement for displacement
We were talking about cars as a metaphor for computers. In the metaphor, a lighter load would be an easier-to-run game. And as far as cars go, there really isn't. There are things you can do to help the situation, but at the end of the day, torque makes acceleration, and if you want more torque, you need a bigger engine. Why do you think they put giant V8 engines in trucks? Why do they use >5 liter engines in really fast cars? Sure, lightness helps, but when you have a ten-ton load to move, saving 600lbs on the vehicle is really of little concern.
End User wrote:I think my SLI setup would do just fine against your Titan rig. :P
Sure! It's a lot faster by a lot of metrics. You have more cores, more memory bandwidth, and a higher memory clock. Your average and maximum FPS will usually be higher. If you're interested in pointless epenis rivalries, by all means, SLI is the way to go. You cannot argue however that a Titan will handle a heavier load more consistently than your SLI rig. That's just the nature of the beast.

If you're interested in low-latency gaming on demanding scenes, you need a big single processor.
End User wrote:I suggest you read your own post again: (quotes from me snipped for brevity)
I do own a car with a turbo. Maybe I should sell it and buy a 2014 Z28.
I imagine it will probably out-accelerate your current car, given the same weight. That's only one metric though, of course. My own car is light and reasonably quick with a small motor, because I don't have a need to carry big loads. Aside from my girlfriend, HA!(≧σ≦)
End User wrote:Edit: But seriously. You went on a crazy uninformed SLI attack and you expect me not to defend the technology? Sheesh. Perhaps it is you who has insecurities about your choice.
It's not crazy or uninformed! And it wasn't an "attack"! Jesus living christ, did EITHER of you even read my post? I know it's long, but surely you aren't so ADD that you can't sit through a few minutes of reading, right? I said SLI was good!
End User wrote:Oh stop! You're killing me.
If only.

Waco wrote:I did, and yes, while you come to the same conclusion, your reasons for doing so are totally wrong (both the car and GPU explanations).
No, they aren't, and screw you for saying so! щ(ಠ益ಠщ)

And doubly for not even attempting to justify yourself! Your trollish behavior is noted! ಠ益ಠ)凸

Next time, instead of being a jerk and saying "No, you're wrong! This is how it is:" and then stating the same thing, you might try saying "yes, you're right" and agreeing. I cannot believe the hubris on display in your post. I am physically furious right now! You don't even know what you're talking about! Case in point:
Waco wrote:Anyway - I wouldn't buy anything till the new AMD cards come out and prices fall into line. Who knows? Perhaps AMD will pull another 4870 miracle. I doubt it but they have done it before.
The 9700 was a "miracle" -- a better-than-expected part came out ahead of schedule. The 4870 wasn't even especially good -- power consumption and heat were off the charts -- it's just that Nvidia stumbled with the follow-up to the amazing G80/G92 and AMD's parts (which were competitive, unlike the 29xx/38xx parts) looked better by comparison. It's just like the old Athlon, which was a good part by any estimation, but only seemed as amazing as it did is because Intel couldn't scale up the Pentium III to match, and then tried NetBurst, which was an unmitigated failure not at all unlike Bulldozer. (;¬_¬)

Really, Waco, you're a jerk, though. Seriously. Both you and End User went NUH-UH! without actually providing any counter-argument, and then as usual, Captain Ned has to show up and fuss at me (regardless of the general nature of his post, he posts every time I post in a thread and it's always directed at me; seriously it's really annoying) when YOU TWO are the ones that are the problem.
Airmantharp wrote:I propose a round of beers- auxy's back!
You can probably guess why I left! s(・`ヘ´・;)ゞ

Actually, it was because I lost my old job and I have better things to do on the internet at home than trawl forums for interesting discussions, but I've started to have more downtime at my new job, so I've started browsing on my phone. I'm posting this from my home PC because reading this thread on my phone at work made me so angry I had to make a proper reply. I'm sick of this crap on the internet where I make an informative post to help people and then get shouted down by people who have NO IDEA what they are talking about because they can't even be bothered to read.
i5-3570K @ 4.4 (NH-C14), 4x8GB DDR3-1866, GA-Z68MA-D3H-B2, ASUS GTXTITAN-6GD5, 128GB Vertex 4 / 2x60GB Vertex Plus R2 / 2x2TB Barracuda 7200.14 RAID0 / ANS-9010 (4x4GB), SST-DA1000 (PSU), 2x VS229H-P, 1x VG248QE, 1x MIMO 720F, Corsair Vengeance K90+M95
auxy
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:25 pm
Location: the armpit of Texas

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:17 am

Airmantharp wrote:
JohnC wrote:I don't know what it will "stress" (the dynamic LOD will most likely be manually adjustable on PC version) but even the old (by now) Witcher 2 was pretty "stressful" at max settings (using SSAA/ubersampling) even when playing on my Titan (I've seen FPS drop to around 40fps).

And it's not even that good looking of a game, really

Actually it is - it still impresses me with its level of detail and lighting effects even today (even though the texture resolution and polygon count is not as high as with modern games like Crysis and there weren't any TressFX-powered hairstyles). Hopefully the next one will at least be equally impressive from visual point of view...
My subscription allows you people to exist on this site and makes me a better human being than you'll ever be
JohnC
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1888
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm
Location: NY/NJ/FL

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:47 am

Airmantharp wrote:Beats me- but if it can run on a PS3 or 360, it really isn't.

I would actually say that is somewhat misleading, because the ps3 and 360 runs scaled down versions of the game because they cant handle the full game, it's just that frostbite 3 has been made to be multiplatform and also being able to scale towards various targets from what I've seen in the interviews and looks on it.

If anything, BF4 using a new iteration of the engine, together with mantle should be the first next gen considering it's an API made for the next gen with input from in parts by Dice. That if anything would be the closest to a definition of next gen as it can. But saying that... as long as ports or scaled down version run on older things, it is not next gen, it plainly wrong.

Although to this day and age, I would probably abolish the whole next gen definition since it's basically on an evolution train, and have been for quite some time. While the new consoles are vastly more powerful and updated, what do they offer that are truly revolutionary compared to the older consoles or the PC. Nothing, they just basically have more horsepower and uses an updated API, but the biggest parts of the foundation is pretty much the same.

Consider the Difference between say, Vectrec, the first Atari, C64, NES, Master System, Amiga, SNES, Megadrive, Saturn, n64, Jaguar and so forth up til today. The revolutionary aspect gets smaller and smaller per generation and begins to be more evolutionary in nature.
Aphasia
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
 
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Solna/Sweden

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:09 am

End User wrote:BF4 is definitely not a game that requires a 6GB+ card. On Ultra settings with max AA @2560x1440 I saw just under 2.8GB of GPU memory used. The game looks great at lower settings and no AA. I got my memory usage down to 1.4GB and the game still looked fantastic.

CPU usage is another story.

I thought Ultra settings weren't really effective yet, which is also how the BF3 beta was handled IIRC. If you compare to high, how much difference do you see if you compared Medium/High/Ultra with the same levels of AA and have HBAO on. Because already back in BF2 you could max out a 2 GB card on high res of you wasn't careful with the AA.

Although I would agree with you for single screen gaming that you probably wont need any more then 4GB's. I game at 2560x1600 which is ~4MP of pixels, and also don't use AA because it's too much of a performance hog. But should I do it, I could probably peak it above 3GB if I had more memory on the card. But if you would ever think of stepping up to Either 4K, or eyefinity gaming, then you will need more memory because that could easily come up to both 6 megapixels and beyond.
Aphasia
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
 
Posts: 3465
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Solna/Sweden

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:52 pm

Aphasia wrote:But if you would ever think of stepping up to Either 4K, or eyefinity gaming, then you will need more memory because that could easily come up to both 6 megapixels and beyond.

Fair enough. By the time I move to a 4K display I will have moved on from my 4GB cards.
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:55 pm

auxy wrote:I make an informative post to help people and then get shouted down by people who have NO IDEA what they are talking about because they can't even be bothered to read.

That is exactly how I feel about you. I moved on. So should you.

Edit: Sorry, this is too good to pass up on:

auxy wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:I propose a round of beers- auxy's back!
You can probably guess why I left! s(・`ヘ´・;)ゞ

I know why you left:

So your personal time is too valuable to waste on TR but at work you can waste all the time you want posting. Nice!
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:31 pm

auxy wrote:And doubly for not even attempting to justify yourself! Your trollish behavior is noted! ಠ益ಠ)凸

Next time, instead of being a jerk and saying "No, you're wrong! This is how it is:" and then stating the same thing, you might try saying "yes, you're right" and agreeing. I cannot believe the hubris on display in your post. I am physically furious right now! You don't even know what you're talking about! Case in point:
Waco wrote:Anyway - I wouldn't buy anything till the new AMD cards come out and prices fall into line. Who knows? Perhaps AMD will pull another 4870 miracle. I doubt it but they have done it before.
The 9700 was a "miracle" -- a better-than-expected part came out ahead of schedule. The 4870 wasn't even especially good -- power consumption and heat were off the charts -- it's just that Nvidia stumbled with the follow-up to the amazing G80/G92 and AMD's parts (which were competitive, unlike the 29xx/38xx parts) looked better by comparison. It's just like the old Athlon, which was a good part by any estimation, but only seemed as amazing as it did is because Intel couldn't scale up the Pentium III to match, and then tried NetBurst, which was an unmitigated failure not at all unlike Bulldozer. (;¬_¬)

Really, Waco, you're a jerk, though. Seriously.

Complain all you want. I'm not going to point out all the holes in your argument when it's plainly obvious you're wrong if you've ever read a single one of the frame-latency oriented articles here on TR. We get it, you have a Titan, everything else sucks (in your opinion). Just don't go making stuff up to justify your purchase and expect to not get called out on it.


Next time when I'm posting from my phone I'll make sure to note it so you don't go all crazy on us again. That, and the personal insults are a nice touch. You should keep that up!
Z68XP-UD4 | 2700K @ 4.7 GHz | 16 GB | GTX 780 | PCP&C Silencer 950 | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 / X3 | D5 + RP-452X2 | HAF 932 | 480 GB Extreme Pro
Waco
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:48 pm

End User wrote:Edit: Sorry, this is too good to pass up on:
auxy wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:I propose a round of beers- auxy's back!
You can probably guess why I left! s(・`ヘ´・;)ゞ

I know why you left:
Obviously, because I just told you... clearly, it was a joke...
I don't really get your point here; I have a lot less personal time, so obviously it's a lot more valuable to me. I don't see the problem with posting at work during downtime when there's nothing else to do. \(--)/

But that's offtopic anyway, so nevermind. PM me if you'd like to elucidate on your pointless harassment. (ノ ̄д ̄)ノ

Waco wrote:Complain all you want. I'm not going to point out all the holes in your argument when it's plainly obvious you're wrong if you've ever read a single one of the frame-latency oriented articles here on TR. We get it, you have a Titan, everything else sucks (in your opinion). Just don't go making stuff up to justify your purchase and expect to not get called out on it.
I didn't buy my Titan, so I have no need to justify it. ヘ(´o`)ヘ I could never afford such a thing and I'm eternally grateful to my benefactor to have it, but even if I had the money, I absolutely would never have purchased it no matter how much I wanted it -- I can't afford that kind of price/performance disparity. Well, I might have bought it, but that's because I have poor impulse control.

And I didn't say or imply 'everything else sucks.' I actually explicitly said the opposite. Multiple times! There's a really nice relatively recent article at Tom's that actually bears out completely what I said: under a heavy enough load, one big GPU is more consistent than two smaller ones. The problem with comparisons like End User's are that the GTX 770 is not "slower enough" to really show this without doing something relatively silly, like playing at 4K, because games just aren't that demanding right now.

I didn't "make anything up". I understand if you're embarrassed because you made a snap reaction to my post, assuming what I was saying before you read it and now you're too far in to admit you were wrong, but what you're doing now is just childish. If you were reading on your phone, that's still no excuse for replying to a post you didn't read! Speaking of being childish:
Waco wrote:Next time when I'm posting from my phone I'll make sure to note it so you don't go all crazy on us again. That, and the personal insults are a nice touch. You should keep that up!
Yeah, I make personal insults, but anyone would when they're as furious as I was. I didn't "go crazy" -- come to Freenode ##hardware and ask them about me 'going crazy'. Yah, I have a temper problem, but you didn't even approach the limits of that. Don't flatter yourself.
i5-3570K @ 4.4 (NH-C14), 4x8GB DDR3-1866, GA-Z68MA-D3H-B2, ASUS GTXTITAN-6GD5, 128GB Vertex 4 / 2x60GB Vertex Plus R2 / 2x2TB Barracuda 7200.14 RAID0 / ANS-9010 (4x4GB), SST-DA1000 (PSU), 2x VS229H-P, 1x VG248QE, 1x MIMO 720F, Corsair Vengeance K90+M95
auxy
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:25 pm
Location: the armpit of Texas

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:56 pm

Embarrassed? No. Mildly amused would be more apt. You make claims that are clearly contradictory to the findings on this site (and many others) and get upset when people just plainly state "you're wrong". I'm sorry that I didn't write a book or reply line-by-line to your post (which, contrary to your assertion, I did read) in order to point out each and every thing I didn't disagree with.

I didn't realize that people actually get "furious" over posts on the internet.

Also, if you want to make a case for big powerful GPUs being better than SLI, linking to an article where the "weaker" cards are running out of video memory probably isn't the best strategy. :)
Z68XP-UD4 | 2700K @ 4.7 GHz | 16 GB | GTX 780 | PCP&C Silencer 950 | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 / X3 | D5 + RP-452X2 | HAF 932 | 480 GB Extreme Pro
Waco
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:14 pm

Waco wrote:You make claims that are clearly contradictory to the findings on this site (and many others) and get upset when people just plainly state "you're wrong".
What claims? What I said is clearly upheld by benchmarks on THIS SITE and others! It's goddamn common knowledge, what I said!
Waco wrote:Also, if you want to make a case for big powerful GPUs being better than SLI, linking to an article where the "weaker" cards are running out of video memory probably isn't the best strategy. :)
That's part of the deal, you know? You buy SLI, you have to contend with the fact that you're only getting half the RAM you paid for. It's not like that's somehow unrelated. Sure, you can buy GPUs with more video memory, but usually they don't even have the memory bandwidth to take advantage of it.
i5-3570K @ 4.4 (NH-C14), 4x8GB DDR3-1866, GA-Z68MA-D3H-B2, ASUS GTXTITAN-6GD5, 128GB Vertex 4 / 2x60GB Vertex Plus R2 / 2x2TB Barracuda 7200.14 RAID0 / ANS-9010 (4x4GB), SST-DA1000 (PSU), 2x VS229H-P, 1x VG248QE, 1x MIMO 720F, Corsair Vengeance K90+M95
auxy
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:25 pm
Location: the armpit of Texas

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:21 pm

auxy wrote:What claims? What I said is clearly upheld by benchmarks on THIS SITE and others! It's goddamn common knowledge, what I said!

Really? If it's such common knowledge then why are there no examples of SLI being unable to make a game playable where a single card wasn't enough?

auxy wrote:That's part of the deal, you know? You buy SLI, you have to contend with the fact that you're only getting half the RAM you paid for. It's not like that's somehow unrelated. Sure, you can buy GPUs with more video memory, but usually they don't even have the memory bandwidth to take advantage of it.

This only matters if you start running out of memory in the first place.
Z68XP-UD4 | 2700K @ 4.7 GHz | 16 GB | GTX 780 | PCP&C Silencer 950 | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 / X3 | D5 + RP-452X2 | HAF 932 | 480 GB Extreme Pro
Waco
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:54 pm

auxy wrote:There's a really nice relatively recent article at Tom's[/url] that actually bears out completely what I said: under a heavy enough load, one big GPU is more consistent than two smaller ones. The problem with comparisons like End User's are that the GTX 770 is not "slower enough" to really show this without doing something relatively silly, like playing at 4K, because games just aren't that demanding right now.

If this discussion centred on stock 2GB GTX 770s in SLI @ 4K, as demonstrated in that Tom's article, then point taken. The thing is I was not giving feedback on stock 2GB GTX 770s in SLI @ 4K. I game with OC'ed 4GB cards @ 2560x1440 and that is what I based my observations on.

By the time I upgrade to 4K my GTX 770 SLI setup will be long gone. I have no idea what I will be using at 4K but, based on that Tom's article, I hope it is something substantially more powerful than a Titan.
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:09 pm

auxy wrote:Sure, you can buy GPUs with more video memory, but usually they don't even have the memory bandwidth to take advantage of it.

My 4GB GTX 770s have a memory bandwidth of 256.4 GB/s each. That is only 32 GB/s less than a 6GB Titan.
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:38 pm

End User wrote:My 4GB GTX 770s have a memory bandwidth of 256.4 GB/s each. That is only 32 GB/s less than a 6GB Titan.
Again with the pointless eDick-waving. This isn't about you or your purchase, you know? Why are you comparing the memory bandwidth on your GPUs to a Titan? That's not even slightly relevant to this discussion; you're just looking for something to nitpick now. Besides, Titan is a halo product with TERRIBLE price/performance; it should really never be included in any serious comparison of value.

The whole problem with this conversation is that you guys with GTX 770 SLI have kind of lost the plot here. You're comparing to Titans because I have one, which is stupid and immaterial. The GTX 770 is *already* a high-end product. It's like $400! That's a high-end GPU by any estimation.

What I said doesn't really apply to you guys, because you bought a high-end GPU and then bought another one. I'm talking about people who would buy two $200 GPUs instead of buying a single $400 GPU, like back in the day when everyone thought it was cool to run a pair of 9600GTs instead of a 9800GTX, or buying a pair of 6870s instead of a 570 or 580, like my brother did.
i5-3570K @ 4.4 (NH-C14), 4x8GB DDR3-1866, GA-Z68MA-D3H-B2, ASUS GTXTITAN-6GD5, 128GB Vertex 4 / 2x60GB Vertex Plus R2 / 2x2TB Barracuda 7200.14 RAID0 / ANS-9010 (4x4GB), SST-DA1000 (PSU), 2x VS229H-P, 1x VG248QE, 1x MIMO 720F, Corsair Vengeance K90+M95
auxy
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:25 pm
Location: the armpit of Texas

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:44 pm

auxy wrote:
End User wrote:My 4GB GTX 770s have a memory bandwidth of 256.4 GB/s each. That is only 32 GB/s less than a 6GB Titan.
Again with the pointless eDick-waving. This isn't about you or your purchase, you know? Why are you comparing the memory bandwidth on your GPUs to a Titan? That's not even slightly relevant to this discussion; you're just looking for something to nitpick now.

I'm sticking to facts. You make statements you can't back up and then deflect valid rebuttals with childish foot stomping antics.
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:14 pm

End User wrote:I'm sticking to facts. You make statements you can't back up and then deflect valid rebuttals with childish foot stomping antics.
The OCZ Vector was the first mass-market SSD to use a custom-designed controller based on dual ARM procesors. See, I can state irrelevant facts too! You don't get to take the moral high ground because you picked a fight you can't win. You might call my "antics" childish, but the reality is that I'm the one with the reasoned, measured, and factual point, while you're standing on the sidelines going NUH-UH! SEE BECAUSE NUMBERS! when you don't even know what the argument is in the first place. It's pathetic, really.

You don't have to feel mad, but it's okay -- you just should have PM'd me instead of posting again.
i5-3570K @ 4.4 (NH-C14), 4x8GB DDR3-1866, GA-Z68MA-D3H-B2, ASUS GTXTITAN-6GD5, 128GB Vertex 4 / 2x60GB Vertex Plus R2 / 2x2TB Barracuda 7200.14 RAID0 / ANS-9010 (4x4GB), SST-DA1000 (PSU), 2x VS229H-P, 1x VG248QE, 1x MIMO 720F, Corsair Vengeance K90+M95
auxy
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:25 pm
Location: the armpit of Texas

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:25 pm

auxy wrote:
End User wrote:I'm sticking to facts. You make statements you can't back up and then deflect valid rebuttals with childish foot stomping antics.
The OCZ Vector was the first mass-market SSD to use a custom-designed controller based on dual ARM procesors. See, I can state irrelevant facts too!

Thanks for confirming what I just wrote.

Lets get back your statement:

auxy wrote:Sure, you can buy GPUs with more video memory, but usually they don't even have the memory bandwidth to take advantage of it.

How much memory bandwidth does a 2GB card need? 3GB? 4GB?
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:34 pm

End User wrote:Thanks for confirming what I just wrote.
Cute, but for you to be correct, one of you would have had to have posted a valid rebuttal, which I haven't actually seen yet.
End User wrote:Lets get back your statement
How about let's not? You're nitpicking at a sideways comment I made that has no relevance to the larger discussion, nor to the actual subject of the thread, which was whether or not a new build should include SLI or not. Remember? Well, probably not. That's why I kept telling you to PM me if you wanted to discuss this further, because this sad little vendetta you have against me adds nothing to the thread.
i5-3570K @ 4.4 (NH-C14), 4x8GB DDR3-1866, GA-Z68MA-D3H-B2, ASUS GTXTITAN-6GD5, 128GB Vertex 4 / 2x60GB Vertex Plus R2 / 2x2TB Barracuda 7200.14 RAID0 / ANS-9010 (4x4GB), SST-DA1000 (PSU), 2x VS229H-P, 1x VG248QE, 1x MIMO 720F, Corsair Vengeance K90+M95
auxy
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:25 pm
Location: the armpit of Texas

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:33 pm

auxy wrote:
End User wrote:Thanks for confirming what I just wrote.
Cute, but for you to be correct, one of you would have had to have posted a valid rebuttal, which I haven't actually seen yet.
End User wrote:Lets get back your statement
How about let's not? You're nitpicking at a sideways comment I made that has no relevance to the larger discussion, nor to the actual subject of the thread, which was whether or not a new build should include SLI or not. Remember? Well, probably not. That's why I kept telling you to PM me if you wanted to discuss this further, because this sad little vendetta you have against me adds nothing to the thread.

You still haven't answered my question. How much memory bandwidth does a 2GB card need? How much memory bandwidth does a 3GB card need? How much memory bandwidth does a 4GB card need?

I know you don't know. All you do is throw out FUD.
i7-3770K@4.7 | H100 | P8Z77-V PREMIUM | 16GB | 2 GTX 770 4GB SLI | M500 960GB | EVO 840 250GB | AX850 | Obsidian 550D | R.A.T. 9 | U2713H | U2711
End User
Gerbil Elite
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:48 pm

auxy wrote:Cute, but for you to be correct, one of you would have had to have posted a valid rebuttal, which I haven't actually seen yet.

I'm still waiting for a link to show this "common knowledge" you were posting about earlier.
Z68XP-UD4 | 2700K @ 4.7 GHz | 16 GB | GTX 780 | PCP&C Silencer 950 | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 / X3 | D5 + RP-452X2 | HAF 932 | 480 GB Extreme Pro
Waco
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:34 am

End User wrote:You still haven't answered my question. How much memory bandwidth does a 2GB card need? How much memory bandwidth does a 3GB card need? How much memory bandwidth does a 4GB card need?

I know you don't know. All you do is throw out FUD.
I'm not intimidated by your bullying tactics and I'm not impressed by your consistent insistence to stand in the face of my indifference. Get out of my face with your belligerence because your deliberate ignorance and resistance to inference are causing me to investigate disparate means by which to deliver my persistently adamant refusal to capitulate. (´Д⊂ヽ

If you knew anything, you'd know that memory bandwidth needs scale with the application, not by how much RAM the card has. That's because you asked about "needs". A GPU can only work with a certain amount of its memory per frame, though, limited by the memory bandwidth and latency; past a certain point, adding on more RAM is pointless.

I really, really don't even know why I bother with you at this point. The whole reason you're so stuck on this point is that you paid through the nose for 4GB GTX770s and you feel the need to both A) wave your e-penis around about it, and B) justify your purchase. I made an offhand remark about extra-memory cards not necessarily being better and you took it so personally you had to harass me publicly across three posts, and this answer probably won't satisfy you because M-MUH NUMBERS!

I hope you recognize when you're outclassed, but you probably won't. Just get away from me. You disgust me.

Waco wrote:I'm still waiting for a link to show this "common knowledge" you were posting about earlier.

Here. Fifteen seconds on Google. Relevant bits:
Lifehacker wrote:We can't tell you what will work for you, but I almost always try to go with a powerful single card rather than two cards in SLI or Crossfire. To me, it's worth the extra $50 (or whatever it is) to have a card that works without system tweaks, without the extra noise, and without the chance of any micro stutter issues.
I didn't provide any links because it really is common knowledge. You don't do a new build with two midrange cards; you buy one high-end card and SLI it later if need be. Or, if you have the money, like End User, you buy two high-end cards right off.

Look, guys, I spend hours a day, every day, helping people with system builds in IRC. Go ahead, laugh it up, but I have spent literally hours poring over benchmarks, reviews, and other data, and I know my **** on this. Both of you glanced at my post and assumed I was saying something I never was, and it shows in your posts. Both of you have consistently accused me of saying things I never said. That, to me, speaks volumes of your integrity, if not your competence. Now, since we're all cluttering up the thread with this and you've both been given the morsels you were screaming for, kindly sod off.
i5-3570K @ 4.4 (NH-C14), 4x8GB DDR3-1866, GA-Z68MA-D3H-B2, ASUS GTXTITAN-6GD5, 128GB Vertex 4 / 2x60GB Vertex Plus R2 / 2x2TB Barracuda 7200.14 RAID0 / ANS-9010 (4x4GB), SST-DA1000 (PSU), 2x VS229H-P, 1x VG248QE, 1x MIMO 720F, Corsair Vengeance K90+M95
auxy
Gerbil Elite
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:25 pm
Location: the armpit of Texas

Re: AMD Crossfire VS NVidia SLI

Postposted on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:13 am

Captain Ned wrote:And at this point it's time for everyone to retreat to a neutral corner and take a few deep breaths before anyone says something I might regret.

Thanks for listening.


This seems to have become awfully personal again and not really of any interest to someone who might want to read the thread based on the thread title.
Can we put this to rest please, it's clogging up the frontpage forum thingy.

And for what it's worth, I have plenty of multi-gpu experience going back about 15 years and my own opinion is that it's only really worth the hassle at the point where you can't buy a single card to push the fillrates you want.
If a Titan isn't enough, then and only then will two cards be a sensible option (posting from my free-because-I-didn't-pay-for-it-and-have-no-reason-to-defend-it Crossfire rig).
Last edited by Chrispy_ on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
<insert large, flashing, epileptic-fit-inducing signature (based on the latest internet-meme) here>
Chrispy_
Gerbil Jedi
Gold subscriber
 
 
Posts: 1955
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:49 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Graphics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 7 guests