Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:38 pm

Deanjo wrote:
Arclight wrote:Edit: I feel like i'm taking crazy pills, now the background of every two posts in this thread appears to me as being light blue-ish. Is it just me? This was not the case half an hour ago when i had HDMI.


You mean you never noticed the ever so slight colour change in every second post before?


Nope, not at all.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:41 pm

Deanjo wrote:
Arclight wrote:Edit: I feel like i'm taking crazy pills, now the background of every two posts in this thread appears to me as being light blue-ish. Is it just me? This was not the case half an hour ago when i had HDMI.


You mean you never noticed the ever so slight colour change in every second post before?


If you have this issue, then you fix it, you will notice that EVERYTHING looks totally different on your monitor. People will need to calibrate it again, since you've likely turned contrast up in an attempt to make black, black. People might have dynamic contrast, black enhancer, and all that kind of stuff on too.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:49 pm

vargis14 wrote:I knew there was a reason ATI cards always seemed to have better colors/picture for gaming and especially video watching...hummmm no wonder when I selected the 0-255 SD HD shader in MPHC the blacks popped and overall picture looked better also on my 55" plasma for Watching videos at least.

Time for more testing.

Easy there, let's not blow this out of proportion.

Just so I'm clear, the exact "fix" is? I have an eye for colors.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:02 pm

Outside of having to manually edit a bunch of registry keys to get the full color gamut output over HDMI, I don't think there is one. I think that's why the OP is making such an issue out of this.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:08 pm

morphine wrote:
vargis14 wrote:I knew there was a reason ATI cards always seemed to have better colors/picture for gaming and especially video watching...hummmm no wonder when I selected the 0-255 SD HD shader in MPHC the blacks popped and overall picture looked better also on my 55" plasma for Watching videos at least.

Time for more testing.

Easy there, let's not blow this out of proportion.

Just so I'm clear, the exact "fix" is? I have an eye for colors.


The fix is to make the GPU output RGB 0-255 like a computer monitor is expecting. That will make black, black, and colors correct. By default, Nvidia treats anything HDMI with a TV resolution as only being capable of RGB limited 15-235, which distorts the colors and will NEVER look right on a display expecting an RGB 0-255!

Since there are literally hundreds of thousands of people using 1080p monitors connected with HDMI, this issue affects a lot of people.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:19 pm

I know what the intended result is. What I was asking, assuming my colors are wrong, what is the process to fix them? Custom resolution at 60Hz exactly?
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:27 pm

morphine wrote:I know what the intended result is. What I was asking, assuming my colors are wrong, what is the process to fix them? Custom resolution at 60Hz exactly?


Using VGA seems to work for me. I've just recalibrated brightness and contrast using this picture as reference and now the background on the forum posts looks teal-ish. I should note that the constrast looks better than ever but idk what to make of the teal. Is there anybody who knows the real color of this forum posts? I'm going crazy over here.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:39 pm

morphine wrote:I know what the intended result is. What I was asking, assuming my colors are wrong, what is the process to fix them? Custom resolution at 60Hz exactly?


It seems that you basically can't use a resolution & refresh rate that's listed under the "Ultra HD, HD, SD" heading in Nvidia's resolution selector. I just checked, and it has 60Hz, 59Hz, and 50Hz as selectable refresh rates in that section, and they all have the reduced color range. I set up a custom resolution with a 61Hz refresh rate and it went into the "Custom" section, and it gives me the full range.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:42 pm

Arclight wrote:Is there anybody who knows the real color of this forum posts? I'm going crazy over here.


White (255,255,255) and light gray (246,246,246).
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:48 pm

BlackDove wrote:
Deanjo wrote:
Arclight wrote:Edit: I feel like i'm taking crazy pills, now the background of every two posts in this thread appears to me as being light blue-ish. Is it just me? This was not the case half an hour ago when i had HDMI.


You mean you never noticed the ever so slight colour change in every second post before?


If you have this issue, then you fix it, you will notice that EVERYTHING looks totally different on your monitor. People will need to calibrate it again, since you've likely turned contrast up in an attempt to make black, black. People might have dynamic contrast, black enhancer, and all that kind of stuff on too.


Seeing two different shades of background alternating between posts is expected behavior You SHOULD see two slightly different hues. One being pure white and another (ffffff and f8f8f8). It is right in the stylesheet. If you don't see this then your monitor is not calibrated as you should see a variation on a properly calibrated monitor (even on a lowly tn).
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:53 pm

morphine wrote:I know what the intended result is. What I was asking, assuming my colors are wrong, what is the process to fix them? Custom resolution at 60Hz exactly?


No, in my first post I link to the crude fix that you have to use to get it to stay full RGB.

You can test to see if your color is broken by going to the control panel, and creating a custom resolution with a 59Hz refresh rate. When you test it, you should see black become black, and colors change. This doesn't fix it permanently, as it changes resolutions to the HDTV 1080p with broken color, when you launch a game or even reboot. This is only a temporary way to test the colors.

If your resolution is listed under the HDTV section and not PC in resolutions, then your color is likely wrong.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:57 pm

I have yet to find the information on how YCbCr is any worse, so I switched to it.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:59 pm

Melvar wrote:
morphine wrote:I know what the intended result is. What I was asking, assuming my colors are wrong, what is the process to fix them? Custom resolution at 60Hz exactly?


It seems that you basically can't use a resolution & refresh rate that's listed under the "Ultra HD, HD, SD" heading in Nvidia's resolution selector. I just checked, and it has 60Hz, 59Hz, and 50Hz as selectable refresh rates in that section, and they all have the reduced color range. I set up a custom resolution with a 61Hz refresh rate and it went into the "Custom" section, and it gives me the full range.


OK, so maybe it doesn't give you the right color when you set it 59Hz for some people!

Make sure that when you temporarily test, you get a PC resolution, or a custom resolution in the Nvidia control panel! Otherwise, you're only changing the refresh rate.

You have to go into the Custom Resolution section and create a custom resolution for this to work, or switch to a PC resolution in the PC section of the resolutions!
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:59 pm

Melvar wrote:
Arclight wrote:Is there anybody who knows the real color of this forum posts? I'm going crazy over here.


White (255,255,255) and light gray (246,246,246).


Whoah dude, thank you. Was just about to give up but then i found an automated calibration for white balance in the setup of the screen and now the posts look grey like you said. Dayum, this looks great.
Last edited by Arclight on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:02 pm

Savyg wrote:I have yet to find the information on how YCbCr is any worse, so I switched to it.


NO! Do not use YCbCr!

That is the WRONG color space for an RGB monitor and it's also compressed! This is not the right color space for a PC monitor, and is only there for limited bandwidth TV connections!

It looks better because it actually gives you black, but it's TOTALLY wrong colors!
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:03 pm

Nope, absolutely no difference here. I set up a 1680x1050 61Hz resolution, and compared to the 1680x1050 regular res.

Somebody pointed out back in the thread that if the monitors are identifying themselves as HDTVs, then this is "correct". Also implies that it won't happen with every monitor.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:05 pm

BlackDove wrote:NO! Do not use YCbCr!

That is the WRONG color space for an RGB monitor and it's also compressed! This is not the right color space for a PC monitor, and is only there for limited bandwidth TV connections!

It looks better because it actually gives you black, but it's TOTALLY wrong colors!

I read the entire wiki and do not see anything to support your claim.

The closest is
Y′CbCr is used to separate out a luma signal (Y′) that can be stored with high resolution or transmitted at high bandwidth, and two chroma components (CB and CR) that can be bandwidth-reduced, subsampled, compressed, or otherwise treated separately for improved system efficiency.

(I know I'm no photographer or designer or whatever, but if the other alternative is driver hacking I'll say screw it and go with the easy option.)
Last edited by Savyg on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:12 pm

morphine wrote:Nope, absolutely no difference here. I set up a 1680x1050 61Hz resolution, and compared to the 1680x1050 regular res.

Somebody pointed out back in the thread that if the monitors are identifying themselves as HDTVs, then this is "correct". Also implies that it won't happen with every monitor.


If your resolution is 1680x1050 you are not affected! That is not a TV resolution!

This only applies to 1080p hooked up over HDMI!

Nvidia defaults to limited RGB 15-235 when it detects 1080p and HDMI. If you're using DVI you're fine.

If your resolution is listed under PC and not the HDTV section you're fine as well!

This ONLY affects the thousands of people who have a 1080p/720p/4K or other "TV resolution" monitor hooked up via HDMI.
Last edited by BlackDove on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:16 pm

I understood all that, I was just doing my due diligence and seeing if this wasn't a problem anywhere else.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:19 pm

BlackDove wrote:This ONLY affects the thousands of people who have a 1080p monitor hooked up via HDMI.


It also seems to affect 720p. I didn't check any other resolutions, but I'm guessing any combination of resolution & refresh rate that makes the driver think "this must be an HDTV" will be affected.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:20 pm

Savyg wrote:
BlackDove wrote:NO! Do not use YCbCr!

That is the WRONG color space for an RGB monitor and it's also compressed! This is not the right color space for a PC monitor, and is only there for limited bandwidth TV connections!

It looks better because it actually gives you black, but it's TOTALLY wrong colors!

I read the entire wiki and do not see anything to support your claim.

The closest is
Y′CbCr is used to separate out a luma signal (Y′) that can be stored with high resolution or transmitted at high bandwidth, and two chroma components (CB and CR) that can be bandwidth-reduced, subsampled, compressed, or otherwise treated separately for improved system efficiency.

(I know I'm no photographer or designer or whatever, but if the other alternative is driver hacking I'll say screw it and go with the easy option.)


The YCrBr color space is NOT the same as RGB 0-255, and you do NOT want to use it instead! If your monitor is expecting RGB 0-255, and you give it either RGB 15-235 or YCrBr, you will get massive color distortion. In the case of YCrBr, you will lose all detail in shadows!
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:21 pm

Melvar wrote:
BlackDove wrote:This ONLY affects the thousands of people who have a 1080p monitor hooked up via HDMI.


It also seems to affect 720p. I didn't check any other resolutions, but I'm guessing any combination of resolution & refresh rate that makes the driver think "this must be an HDTV" will be affected.


Yes, that is exactly correct. I should have said ANY resolution that the driver detects as a TV(720p, 1080p, possibly 4K).

I don't have a 4K TV to test with, but since that resolution would likely show up in the Ultra HD, HD, SD section, it would probably be affected too.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:32 pm

BlackDove wrote:The YCrBr color space is NOT the same as RGB 0-255, and you do NOT want to use it instead! If your monitor is expecting RGB 0-255, and you give it either RGB 15-235 or YCrBr, you will get massive color distortion. In the case of YCrBr, you will lose all detail in shadows!

Is my monitor expecting RGB? Who says? Did you produce my monitor panel? What if my monitor is actually expecting this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC

You've given me nothing to go on here except 'NO, DON'T DO THAT.'
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:42 pm

I think the problem that isn't so much this is a bug. It is just that Nvidia hasn't bother to make it easy for users to override RGB and YCrBr settings for their outputs. AMD/ATI remedy this years ago back when HDTV monitors were still kinda new.

Perhaps if Nvidia hears enough noise about it. They will finally get around and provide the same option in their control panel.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:49 pm

Savyg wrote:
BlackDove wrote:The YCrBr color space is NOT the same as RGB 0-255, and you do NOT want to use it instead! If your monitor is expecting RGB 0-255, and you give it either RGB 15-235 or YCrBr, you will get massive color distortion. In the case of YCrBr, you will lose all detail in shadows!

Is my monitor expecting RGB? Who says? Did you produce my monitor panel? What if my monitor is actually expecting this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC

You've given me nothing to go on here except 'NO, DON'T DO THAT.'


Would you like me to take several hours to explain different color spaces to you? If you don't want it fixed, or you're not affected by this issue, then ignore it. Tell me what your monitor's model number is, and I'll Google it and find out what color space it needs for you, if you'd like.

If your monitor is expecting that, and you have it hooked up with HDMI, and it's a "TV resolution", you're only getting a fraction of the colors its expecting, and you will get horrible artifacting.

It doesn't matter if your monitor can display the Rec.2020 color space. If you give it the wrong signal, it will not be giving you the right colors!

I have given you plenty to go on, if you read the first post, and go to the link. An Nvidia moderator is the guy who describes the fix in the link, and that's what I followed.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:50 pm

Savyg wrote:
BlackDove wrote:The YCrBr color space is NOT the same as RGB 0-255, and you do NOT want to use it instead! If your monitor is expecting RGB 0-255, and you give it either RGB 15-235 or YCrBr, you will get massive color distortion. In the case of YCrBr, you will lose all detail in shadows!

Is my monitor expecting RGB? Who says? Did you produce my monitor panel? What if my monitor is actually expecting this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC

You've given me nothing to go on here except 'NO, DON'T DO THAT.'


MASSIVE COLOR DISTORTION!!! would be a decent name for a band. Unless you're editing photos, or some other color critical work, just set it up so that it looks good to you and don't worry too much about the MASSIVE COLOR DISTORTION!!!
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:04 pm

Melvar wrote:
Savyg wrote:
BlackDove wrote:The YCrBr color space is NOT the same as RGB 0-255, and you do NOT want to use it instead! If your monitor is expecting RGB 0-255, and you give it either RGB 15-235 or YCrBr, you will get massive color distortion. In the case of YCrBr, you will lose all detail in shadows!

Is my monitor expecting RGB? Who says? Did you produce my monitor panel? What if my monitor is actually expecting this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC

You've given me nothing to go on here except 'NO, DON'T DO THAT.'


MASSIVE COLOR DISTORTION!!! would be a decent name for a band. Unless you're editing photos, or some other color critical work, just set it up so that it looks good to you and don't worry too much about the MASSIVE COLOR DISTORTION!!!


No, you're wrong actually. This is important, even if you play games. Never seeing black, never seeing the right colors on your monitor, and being unable to, is a big issue for anyone affected. Black looks gray, and it totally destroys the image, even if you're playing a game.

Most people don't realize how bad it is, until they fix it. My friend thought his color was perfect, then I spent hours with him fixing it last night, and he realized what a difference it makes to have the monitor and GPU on the same color space.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:42 pm

Huh. I've been kind of disappointed in the contrast of my monitors lately, but all of mine are connected via dual-link DVI cables or VGA, so I guess I'm not affected.

I'm actually disappointed because I really wanted a free and easy improvement in contrast! T_T
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:02 pm

auxy wrote:Huh. I've been kind of disappointed in the contrast of my monitors lately, but all of mine are connected via dual-link DVI cables or VGA, so I guess I'm not affected.

I'm actually disappointed because I really wanted a free and easy improvement in contrast! T_T

That'll need OLED methinks.

If that ever happens.
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Re: Huge Nvidia issue that needs attention(bigger than FCAT)

Postposted on Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:12 pm

My HTPC is running HDMI to my plasma...and I've been having a hell of a time calibrating it properly with the nVidia card versus the AMD card I had in it before.

I'm going to be pissed if the solution involves .inf hacking.

EDIT: Yup, totally does this. Now I get to re-calibrate it after making the hack work...
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