[updated 28 July]Recommended low profile card: MSI N750ti-2GD5TLP GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB (Newegg link) ($120)
(big price drops recently, presumably ahead of the GTX 950 launch, this is an amazing deal)Recommended low profile, single slot card: SAPPHIRE R7 250 1GB GDDR5 Low Profile MICRO HDMI (Amazon link) ($110)
(side note, see below for EVGA's low profile, single slot GeForce GT 740 card, while it will be a little slower than an R7 250E it is also about $25 cheaper right now, and if you're a Linux user like myself you'll probably save yourself a lot of headache by going NVIDIA)
So, current rumours
are pointing to August 17 for the launch of the GeForce GTX 950, with specs being a GM206 (GTX 960) GPU with 1/4 of the SPs and TMUs disabled (but all of the ROPs intact, which means there won't be any of the odd memory speed nonsense like we saw with the 970), 2GB of GDDR5 (expect to see 4GB on some models, though) and unfortunately for anyone interested enough to be reading this thread, a 90W power draw. That pretty much just rules it out for low profile configurations. I suppose we can still hope for a "GT 950" or "GT 940" or something, and it's possible those will launch on the same day so NVIDIA can fill out the rest of the line, but I haven't seen anything about other low-end cards.
The Quadro K1200
still gives me hope that we'll at least see GTX 750/750ti performance in low profile single slot form factor this generation, but I don't think there's going to be any huge leap in performance until NVIDIA's new Pascal architecture and AMD's... whatever the lower-end version of Fiji is called.
My original advice from this first post still applies: if you happen to be reading this and are:
- considering building a new system
- in a low profile ITX case with room for only a single-slot video card, and
- you want to be gaming on it
Then you should look really, really hard at AMD's APUs, before you decide you'd rather go with an Intel CPU and a discrete video card. You'll save yourself a lot of headache looking for a video card, and the performance gains may not be worth it. This is especially true if we end up seeing Carrizo show up in any "NUC" type boxes.
(this is a little out of date by now, but I think the general principle, which is "look at some benchmarks because your IGP may be more capable than you think" or "look at some benchmarks because that video card might not be much of an upgrade after all", still applies)
The discussion thread about obsolete GPUs
got me wondering about the kind of performance improvement you'd really get out of these cards, especially the single slot ones, compared to Intel's HD 4600 (Haswell), 4000 (Ivy Bridge) and 2000 (Sandy Bridge) graphics.
To try and get an idea of this, I browsed through Futuremark's database
, looking for "Cloud Gate" scores. I focused on these processors:
Ivy Bridge: i3-3225
Sandy Bridge: i3-2100.
Since it's easy enough to spec an ITX system with 8GB of system RAM, I've looked for results from systems with that amount, and a few different video card options for each proc. I've "normalized" the results to the IGP score for each proc.
I chose i3 processors for the results comparison for two reasons: First, I have an i3 in my system, and second, I figure smaller systems with these space/power constraints will not likely be crammed full of unlocked Core i7s.
Cloud Gate is not a graphics-only test; it also does a physics test and the overall score is averaged somehow from all of the results. I've listed all three scores below, but I think the "overall" score is going to be most indicative of the kind of performance increase you can expect from installing one of these cards.i3-4360 results (HD 4600 graphics):
Quick notes: systems specced with 8GB of RAM. Memory type was determined by reported clock speed and known video card configurations.
- HD 4600, DDR3-1600: 5973
(1.00) - Graphics 7132 - Physics 3809
- GT 730, 2GB DDR3: 5522
(0.92) - Graphics 6278 - Physics 3886
- R7 250, 2GB DDR3: 6925
(1.16) - Graphics 8953 - Physics 3864
- GTX 750, 1GB GDDR5: 11387
(1.91) - Graphics 28650 - Physics 3663
- GTX 750Ti, 2GB GDDR5: 12739
(2.07) - Graphics 34469 - Physics 3973
Well. Some interesting results in their database here, and it confirms my suspicions (and those of many others) that a card with DDR3 is absolutely not worth the cost of entry at this point. The GT 730 with DDR3 is actually slower
than the HD 4600 on the i3-4360. The R7 250 with DDR3 is a marginal improvement over the HD 4600 - but given the prices of these cards, you'd be paying near $100 for a 15% improvement in performance. Figure that in actual games, not synthetics, this difference might be even smaller, and I can easily say it's just not worth the cost.
The 750 and 750ti are really the best option if your case has room for a double-slot low profile card. If it doesn't, well, I couldn't find numbers for a GDDR5 730 or 250 with the i3-4360, but I did find some on the Ivy Bridge proc. Read on!i3-3225 results (HD 4000 graphics):
Quick notes: systems specced with 8GB of RAM. Memory type was determined by reported clock speed and known video card configurations. R7-250 results come from a system with an i3-3240 (100MHz faster) so may be slightly askew. GT 740 results from a system using i3-3220; same clock speed as 3225 but has onboard HD 2500 instead of HD 4000.
- Baseline HD 4000, DDR3-1600: 4533
(1.00) - Graphics 5133 - Physics 3218
- GT 730, 1GB GDDR5: 7578
(1.67) - Graphics 11949 - Physics 3324
- GT 740, 2GB of GDDR5: 8447
(1.86) - Graphics 15117 - Physics 3320
- R7 250, 1GB of GDDR5: 8824
(1.95) - Graphics 16021 - Physics 3431
- GTX 750, 2GB GDDR5: 10676
(2.36) - Graphics 28903 - Physics 3329
- GTX 750ti, 2GB GDDR5: 11407
(2.52) - Graphics 35552 - Physics 3378
I was able to find results for a GT 730 with GDDR5 and it paints a pretty compelling picture: even though those cards have a 64-bit memory interface, it manages to punch a full 66% faster, overall, than the HD 4000 graphics. A 730 might be worthwhile for an Ivy Bridge system, but not a big bump for a Haswell proc with HD 4600.
Also, you'll notice the GT 740 is marginally faster than the GT 730 when both are using GDDR5, but the R7 250 still has a slight advantage - seems the 64-bit GDDR5 interface is a pretty good match for the 384SP config in the 730, and the 740, with the same amount of SPs, isn't really able to make use of the extra bandwidth from the 128-bit config. Looks like the "sweet spot" of bandwidth will be somewhere in the 60GB/s range.i3-2100 results (HD 2000 graphics):
For the curious, before I jump into the numbers from the i3-2100, I checked the DB to see if there were comparable results for the HD 2000 vs HD 3000. There were, although they weren't "validated". The i3-2120 and i3-2125 are same clock speeds, but one has HD 2000 graphics and the other has HD 3000. I don't think the 3000 was as common in the low-end processors for Sandy Bridge, but honestly can't recall - I skipped from Clarkdale to Haswell on the desktop, with a big gap of "not paying attention to this stuff" in between.
- i3-2120, DDR3-1333, HD 2000: 2164
- Graphics 1992 - Physics 3107
- i3-2125, DDR3-1333, HD 3000: 3155
- Graphics 3150 - Physics 3173
Quick notes: the R7 250 results were found paired with an i3-2105 CPU, which has the same clock speed as the 2100 but HD 3000 graphics onboard. I figure it is comparable. The 750ti results came from a system with only 4GB of system RAM. Memory type was determined by reported clock speed and known video card configurations.
- HD 2000 with DDR3-1333: 2082
(1.00) - Graphics 1929 - Physics 2889
- GT 730, 2GB of GDDR3: 4729
(2.27) - Graphics 5733 - Physics 2933
- GT 730, 2GB of GDDR5: 7048
(3.39) - Graphics 11685 - Physics 2951
- R7 250, 1GB of GDDR5: 8013
(3.85) - Graphics 15859 - Physics 2934
- GTX 750, 1GB of GDDR5: 10179
(4.89) - Graphics 31616 - Physics 3018
- GTX 750 Ti, 2GB of GDDR5: 10724
(5.15) - Graphics 36271 - Physics 3095overall
So the R7 250 is the definite winner for single-slot low-profile. If you're already on Haswell HD 4600 graphics, however, The roughly $100 one costs would be getting you about 50% more GPU performance. That's a tough call, but in that form factor, it's the best option. If these cards were priced a little better it'd be an easier choice, but even regular sized R7 250s are $80-$90, so we're not really looking at much of a premium for low profile format. The pricing makes less sense when compared to other equivalently priced cards. AMD needs to get these into the sub-$75 range and make them the new "bottom line" - much the same way NVIDIA has done with the GT 730 cards sitting in the $60-$70 range. Maybe they'll do that with the Rx 300 series.
The R7 250 looks like a much nicer proposition if you're using Ivy Bridge HD4000 (and obviously would be an even bigger upgrade for Sandy Bridge HD2000/3000, as well).
If you can do double-width low profile, though, the 750 or 750ti are the definite winners. The 750 isn't much slower than the 750ti, so unless you can get one for an especially good price, it seems the 750ti makes the most sense.
-----Some results from my own testing:
As kuririkura pointed out
, the higher-end processors can push their onboard graphics a little harder than these i3s. I've done a bit of testing on one of my own systems about this, out of curiousiry, including some memory tweaking and overclocking results.
My two system configs:
i3-4370 (3.8GHz), 8GB DDR3-1600, HD 4600 graphics & Radeon HD 7570 1GB GDDR5 & Radeon R7 250E (HD 7750) 2GB GDDR5
i5-4670K (3.4GHz, 3.8GHz turbo), 8GB DDR3-1600, HD 4600 graphics
Conveniently the i5's max turbo clock matches the i3-4370's clock.
For comparisons, I got my hands on an OEM low profile, single slot Radeon HD 7570 with GDDR5. It's an earlier Terascale 2 (VLIW5) chip, near as I can tell a rebranded Radeon HD 6670, rated at 65W.
I also got ahold of an R7 250E - Powercolor's 4-displayport R7 250 (see the list of cards below for more detail). These are rebranded HD 7750s, GCN 1.0 parts, and they're rated at 55W.
i3-4370 / 8GB @ DDR3-1600 / HD 4600: 6168
(1.00) - graphics 7399 - physics 3899
i3-4370 / 8GB / Radeon HD 7570 1GB GDDR5: 7011
(1.14) - graphics 8951 - physics 3987
i3-4370 / 8GB / Radeon R7 250E 2GB GDDR5: 9836
(1.59) - graphics 17024 - physics 3970
So the 7570 is faster, but not by much. That puts HD 4600 graphics a little slower than a mid-range part from April of 2011... that sounds about right to me. And the HD 7750 / R7 250E muscles ahead of the numbers I've got listed above for other R7 250 cards, by a pretty decent amount.
Moving on, let's see the i3 vs the i5, to explore whether or not there's big gains to be had from having four physical processors:
i3-4370 / 8GB @ DDR3-1600 / HD 4600: 6168
(1.00) - graphics 7399 (1.00) - physics 3899 (1.00)
i5-4670K / 8GB @ DDR3-1600 / HD 4600: 7077
(1.15) - graphics 7968 (1.08) - physics 5087 (1.30)
So the i5 is a little faster than the i3, but not by much - seems a good portion of that increase comes from the higher physics score. I also have a system with an i7-4790k in it, and if I get a chance to connect another drive to that box for a quick Windows install and benchmark run I'll include those numbers here, but I expect what you'll see is largely the same as the i3 vs the i5: higher physics score, slightly higher graphics score, overall HD 4600 is still bumping into a ceiling due to available memory bandwidth and GPU clock.
I think the takeaway here is that a beefier processor may well make the IGP a little faster, but not by a massive amount.
But hey, if you've got an unlocked processor and can do a little overclocking, why not try that and see what it does for performance? I was running the i5-4670k on an ASRock Z87E-ITX which has a few "one-click" type overclocking settings. I've normalized these results to the DDR3-1600 one. I changed memory speeds but couldn't get my DIMMs to go past 1866MHz, also tweaked the max turbo (default 3.8GHz) and max GPU speed (default 1.2GHz). I didn't push these too far - small systems aren't likely to be used for overclocking, and OEM boxes in this form factor with i5s/i7s may not even have an overclock-capable motherboard, so this was really just for fun:
i5-4670K / 8GB @ DDR3-1333 / HD 4600: 6817
(0.96) - graphics 7670 - physics 4907
i5-4670K / 8GB @ DDR3-1600 / HD 4600: 7077
(1.00) - graphics 7968 - physics 5087
i5-4670K / 8GB @ DDR3-1866 / HD 4600: 7403
(1.05) - graphics 8435 - physics 5184
i5-4670K @ 4.0GHz Turbo / 8GB @ DDR3-1600 / HD 4600 @ 1500MHz max: 8244
(1.03) - graphics 9488 - physics 5651
i5-4670K @ 4.0GHz Turbo / 8GB @ DDR3-1866 / HD 4600 @ 1500MHz max: 8564
(1.07) - graphics 9986 - physics 5717
That 25% increase in GPU clock speed, paired with the extra 266MHz on the RAM, made for a 25% increase in the graphics score, although the overall score didn't jump by much - just 7%. That might make a difference in gaming performance, but I don't know that it would be enough to keep me from wanting to install a discrete card. It might be enough to hold me off until all the new cards have launched, though!
-----The list of cards:
After looking through the results above, I've got a few suggestions:Low Profile - NVIDIAGeForce GTX 750 TiGIGABYTE GV-N75TOC-2GL G-SYNC Support GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB
- 2GB of RAM and readily available at the egg, here's your fastest low profile video card currently available.Newegg link
($135)MSI N750ti-2GD5TLP GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB
- The GPU clocks on this are ever so slightly lower than the Gigabyte card: 1020 core and 1085 boost, vs 1033 core and 1111 boost; memory on both is the same at 2GB of 5400MHz, 128 bit GDDR5. However, I think more important than that: it has a dual-fan cooler setup, instead of the single fan on the Gigabyte. I'd expect less noise and better cooling, and as a result I'd recommend this over the Gigabyte card. Also, MSI has significantly dropped the price, possibly in anticipation of the GTX 950 launch next month.Newegg link
------Low Profile - AMDRadeon R7 250
The Oland-based R7 250 is able to mostly keep pace
with the earlier HD 7750 (which was rebadged as the R7 250E), but the 7750/250E is a little faster overall. Some single-slot R7 250 cards appear to actually be R7 250E in disguise, so while the below card may end up being very quiet, if you don't mind a little extra noise, a single-slot solution could end up getting you slightly higher framerates (and possibly do so while costing less, depending on sales).Radeon R7 250 Core Edition - Low Profile
A dual slot solution (incorrect heatsink height listed on their website specs, at the time of this writing it showed 14mm, actual height is about 36mm), with a shrouded heatsink/fan, so it's possible you'll get less fan noise and better cooling with this than you would with a single slot solution. XFX specifically lists the card with 384SPs and a clock speed above 1GHz, so it's pretty likely this is an Oland-based R7 250.Newegg link
(currently out of stock)Amazon link
------Low Profile, Single Slot - NVIDIAGeForce GT 740EVGA GeForce GT 740 2GB
While browsing Newegg a couple weeks ago
I spotted a single slot GeForce GT 740, much to my surprise. This is easily a much better option than the GT 730 cards I'd had listed here previously, as it's a little more capable GPU with more bandwidth available. Expect performance to be close to the R7 250E (below), possibly a tiny bit lower. But if you're in the NVIDIA camp, or want an NVIDIA card for whatever reason, and you're limited in space, this is your best choice. And it's available for much less than most R7 250/250E cards in this form factor, so that slight drop in performance might not be too big of a deal for the price.
Be careful! They make a version that looks exactly the same but has DDR3 instead of DDR5.Newegg link
------Low Profile, Single Slot - AMDRadeon R7 250ESAPPHIRE R7 250 1GB GDDR5 Low Profile MICRO HDMI
This card has a mini displayport output, a mini HDMI output, AND a DVI output, so that port cluster may be useful to you in some respect compared to the Visiontek card above. Also, it is cheaper by a decent amount. There's also a user review on Amazon mentioning that the card may be a 250E - which is to say, a rebadged HD 7750 "Cape Verde" 512SP config. The specs on Sapphire's website mention an 800MHz clock speed and 4500MHz effective GDDR5, which again match the 250E for specs. The port cluster, higher performance and lower price than other R7 250s make this the recommended low profile single slot card.Amazon link
($110)PowerColor AXR7 250 2GBD5-4DL
Powercolor's card is worth pointing out for a few reasons. It has 4 mini displayport outputs, which is pretty awesome. Powercolor's specs page, like the Sapphire above, list the same 800MHz GPU clock and 1125MHz GDDR5 clock of a Radeon R7 250E. It also has 2GB of GDDR5 (which I expect you'd want with four displays). Also, fellow forum member arunphilip reports that GPU-Z is showing his as a Cape Verde card, with the 512/32/16 config
I was able to get my hands on one of these and it is being reported as Cape Verde as well, making this another 250E / HD7750 in disguise. I can also vouch for noise levels - it's actually fairly quiet at idle, emitting a gentle whoosh that's audible but not whiny and irritating. For linux users, you may be amused to hear that, for some reason, it's quieter using the open source drivers than it is using the Catalyst Omega ones. Weird.
Originally sitting around $120 (when the premium seemed almost reasonable for 4 outputs and the extra 1GB of memory), the price has gone up a bit. I can't really recommend it unless you need 4 display outputs in a single slot, low profile form factor.Newegg link
(out of stock)Amazon link
($180, only through Amazon marketplace sellers)