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random gerbil · Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:14 pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20040615/tc_nm/tech_microsoft_security_dc

So if im seeing this correctly, they are gonna charge you for their faulty software, then charge you some more to protect you from those taking advantage of their flawed products...talk about a shake down, M$ is the virtual mafia. This gives them a financial incentive to deliberately place flaws in their products, no?? :-?

Hawkwing74 · Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:21 pm

Will a lot of people really buy it if it's not included with Windows? I sure wouldn't.

random gerbil · Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:27 pm

Hawkwing74 wrote:
Will a lot of people really buy it if it's not included with Windows? I sure wouldn't.

Remeber what happened when they bundled IE with windows and the $hit they got themselves into?? Im not so sure they could get away with it these days...

Usacomp2k3 · Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:29 pm

If it works, I would....who better to know where the holes are than microsoft, and I bet if you keep up with updates, (aka automatic) then you'd do pretty good

LicketySplit · Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:31 pm

Seems a bit shaky to me...security flaws...ooops...we have the answer for you here at only 39.99

I dont think that will fly to well...if it does...gates can move the London Bridge to Seattle and screw the new 520 bridge :roll:

Yuup...its that much of a stretch :wink:

Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:43 pm

I don't see any problem. random gerbil is probably right- they would get tons of flak from AV companies if they tried to bundle it.

Besides, they didn't provided anti-virus before. Why should they do it for free now? It's not like they're going to stop providing patches or fixes through windows update.

I'll buy it if it's better than the competition for a similar price.

Aphasia · Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:50 am

Im really sure you people that complains of the security holes can do a better OS in a hurry. So start programming, the world is waiting for you.

muyuubyou · Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:06 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
If it works, I would....who better to know where the holes are than microsoft, and I bet if you keep up with updates, (aka automatic) then you'd do pretty good

Exactly. No one knows better than them because their software is completely closed - even interface and protocol routines. They take advantage of it by making you pay a hefty premium for entering their "network" and now they want you to finance it.

Felix · Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:06 am

Has bill gotten his Monopoly Hat yet?

FroBozz_Inc · Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:22 am

Guess I would be pissed if I were say:

Symantec, McAfee, Sophos, etc...

Personally, I would still prefer a 3rd party AV solution over a MS one.

muyuubyou · Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:31 am

Yep... let's see if they don't go all tits up and you would still prefer a 3rd party one... but suddenly ooops! there are no 3rd parties. M$ has already profited from the advantage they provided but no longer needs them.

LicketySplit · Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:45 am

Spainard...you learn really fast...has anyone ever told you that :lol:

zgirl · Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:50 am

I'm sticking with Trend damnit!

That is all I have to say.

highlandr · Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:50 am

Actually, I would like to see them offer a free product, at least for 6 months to a year or so. Yes, everyone would complain, but guess what? Everyone else would have to improve their products in order to justify the expense. That means faster update times, smaller memory footprint, better heuristics, etc.

I wish the AV companies had a competitive threat to light a fire under them. The consumers will benefit.

muyuubyou · Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:53 am

Dude you sound like people went for quality and not for free, cheap, easy, bundled, then possibly quality - in that order.

Not that they would be able to get away with that easily. Antitrusts would pop all over the place.

atidriverssuck · Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:52 pm

I would be curious to see just how MS fares in this market. Of course they STILL have an unfair advantage coz they make the OS, so nothing is 'fair' here. As usual they have the upper hand knowing the ins and outs of the OS. Just like they do with VirtualPC, IE, Office...etc.

Hance · Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:18 pm

microsoft released a security update cd set awhile back and it came with antivirus software for free . 1 year free trial thats what i have been using for awhile now . works well and is nowhere near as bloated as that garbage symantec puts out .

atidriverssuck · Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:24 pm

Hance wrote:
microsoft released a security update cd set awhile back and it came with antivirus software for free . 1 year free trial thats what i have been using for awhile now . works well and is nowhere near as bloated as that garbage symantec puts out .

probably just gives the impression it's not bloated due to the level of penetration into the OS...much like IE and Office. I haven't tried it, tho..

Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:43 am

The only real problem I see is, do you really want a company who has a a problem with security holes making your AV software? Plus this will cause more monopoly attention, if another program is added to windows and puts more software companies out of business.

JavaDog · Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:57 am

I don't know why everyone is pissing and moaning. It has nothing to do with Windows security flaws since those are fixed FREE by MS Update, I see no indication they are moving to make you pay for those updates since it will still be seperate from the new AV software...

The Virii out there are not created by MS. Sure, they may exploit MS flaws, but if you think MS is happy about that - then you are a moron. It affects their bottom line more than any Add-On Virus Scanner could make up for.

muyuubyou · Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:00 am

I see you don't get the point about anti-competitive practices.

JavaDog · Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:16 pm

muyuubyou wrote:
I see you don't get the point about anti-competitive practices.

Well, since it is a seperate product and not included for free in windows (AV Software) then it is more than fair. If McAffee and Symantec can't compete with a retail box of MS AnitVirus Whatever-Edition, then too fargin' bad.

muyuubyou · Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:30 pm

It's never a separate product with M$. There's proof M$ hacked stuff into Windows to make Office and IE work better than the competition.

That, and privileged insight from the Windows API. I tend to believe they still retain undocumented features.

They didn't propose a split of the company out of hatred. It made a lot of sense, if only antitrusts were fair and didn't depend on how much cash you can feed the legal system.

JavaDog · Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:36 pm

muyuubyou wrote:
It's never a separate product with M$. There's proof M$ hacked stuff into Windows to make Office and IE work better than the competition.

That, and privileged insight from the Windows API. I tend to believe they still retain undocumented features.

They didn't propose a split of the company out of hatred. It made a lot of sense, if only antitrusts were fair and didn't depend on how much cash you can feed the legal system.

So, you don't think MS should make ANY product/software that isn't the Core OS? Unless, of course, they were to split the Company?

I'm sure MS Shareholders are glad that you don't run the company. No offense.

muyuubyou · Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:45 pm

Exactly. That's the way it should be.

If I were to decide, that would be the less drastic solution. Even better if they open the sources or at least the most interactive parts, but I know they're never conceding that.

Usacomp2k3 · Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:36 pm

muyuubyou wrote:
Exactly. That's the way it should be.

As a user, i want whatever works best... if it's MS b/c it's integrated into the OS, then fine by me....
I still use MSoffice, and I only went to Firefox b/c IE got hijacked and i'm too lazy to fix it b4 i reformat soon
if it works, then i'll use it, no matter who makes it

muyuubyou · Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:52 pm

It would work better if M$ allowed fair competiton, that's the point.

LicketySplit · Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:04 pm

Bang bang..ding ding...whew :roll:

Thanks spainard...ive been trying to convey that without much luck :wink:

Splinter · Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:03 pm

I use Norton, primarily because it's free for me.

It may be bloated (I have NOT noticed a change in performance, except in boot-time between before and after I installed it) but it damn well works. I've yet to have a threat exposed to my computer (excluding myself :/) since the moment that disc entered my drive.

To everyone who says they'll buy a microsoft product if it works better, even if its because they have better insight into their own OS: There is a reason there are laws against monopolies. Imagine if there was a private security company out there (to protect against breakins, etc), and the same company owned the ONLY insurance service, protecting against break-ins, but only if you used their security service. It doesn't take a genius to see that people would be forced to use their security service, until all other security companies went bankrupt and once that happened, they could start slashing their insurance coverage. Increasing premiums and decreasing payouts.

Competition is a necessary part of capitalism. Without it, progress is halted, and the consumer ends up paying higher prices for shoddier products. There is no incentive for the company to create better products. You're really shooting yourself in the foot by going along with something like this, and don't give me that crap about 'well one person won't make a difference'. Every person makes a difference. Every time you choose not to buy a microsoft product, you take money out of their company coffers and force them to reevaluate their buisness practices. Microsoft may be one of the richest most powerful companies in the world but NEVER forget: ANY company is only as powerful the people who choose to invest in them by buying their product. A single person/coporation never has power in itself, only the power to lead those who decide to follow.

atidriverssuck · Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:16 pm

wel said Splinter.
But your first line (using Norton primarily because it's free) is the very thing MS users will be doing as soon as (not if, IMO) they bundle it with something on-the-sly. Bundle it with Office. Bundle it with a game? Bundle it with a keyboard or mouse. I can see that happening.

Then bye bye competition (again). And then bye bye incentive to innovate. And hello incentive to profit (and profit only).

That's what I think will happen. MS wants the 'security' angle now coz it's hurting them from wholesale dominating their free competition. You can bet they are scheming on SOME way to get it bundled in with something. It's the only way they know how to compete. Leverage the monopoly.

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