Using Origin securely

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Using Origin securely

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:33 pm

I'm looking for advice on using Origin securely.

I probably haven't played a FPS since the original Doom, but I bought the Origin Humble Bundle. I found some information on using Sandboxie to run Origin in a sandbox, but I'm having trouble configuring it.

What's the best way to run Origin while protecting my privacy?
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:52 pm

You can't be serious... Are you afraid that Origin will steal your "order confirmation" e-mails and upload them to IRS or something? :roll:
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:08 pm

Since I'm in Canada, I'm not too concerned about the IRS. :-)

I am, however, concerned about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%2 ... _of_spying .

If Wikipedia is full of beans, feel free to correct me.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:54 pm

Once again, if you are afraid that EA will steal a super secret list of your hardware devices or the names of installed programs - you should simply not use the Origin at all. You cannot prevent it from transmitting data to EA if you want to legally play the Origin-enabled games.
You might as well stop using internet altogether - you know, your ISP gathers all your traffic data and stores it for some time for "national security" reasons anyway :wink:
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:57 pm

JohnC is on point- you have far more nefarious things to worry about than a game publisher's download manager/launcher collecting statistics from your computer.

And if you're really worried about that, you really should just go off the grid completely; but don't worry! Since you're already on the grid, finding you off the grid won't be that hard :).
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:59 pm

The original EULA was written by one of their lawyers that decided to use the broadest language possible to indemnify them from every possible outcome.

It has since been completely re-written and details that they don't sell your information, that they do not install spyware, and that they only collect a limited subset of metrics.

Stats like these:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Link

EA wrote:Consent to Collection and Use of Data

EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and
shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.
Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA
would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines. EA collects a limited
amount of information about your use of Origin and your computer or device to
ensure that the Application is working properly, improve its products and
services, troubleshoot bugs, facilitate the provision of software updates,
dynamically served content, provide customer and product support, communicate
with users and otherwise enhance user experience. We and agents acting on
our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your
consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to
enforce EA’s legal rights.

In addition to information that you give Origin directly (such as email address and
account preferences), Origin periodically collects information including IP and
MAC address, Application usage statistics (for instance, if and when you
experienced unsuccessful installation), operating system (such as service pack,
drivers and support DLLs such as DirectX version), information about your
hardware as well as CPU information. If you do not agree to this collection and
use of information, do not install or use the Application.

To manage certain preferences in terms of Origin data collection, please visit
your Settings Menu within the Application.

The responsible body for all information collected via Origin is Electronic Arts Inc.
This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in connection with
your installation and use of this Application is collected, used, stored and
transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at http://www.ea.com. To
the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is inconsistent with the terms of
EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:59 pm

As a Canadian (thus outside the rights of the American Constitution), the NSA knows a lot more about you then EA would know about your system. You should be more worried that they can track your movements via a cell phone, know your browsing history, listen in on all your phone calls and read all your emails.

Origin knowing your computer specs is the least of your concern.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:14 am

Man, the tinfoil hat just isn't cutting it these days. 8)
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:38 am

FUD, FUD and even more FUD.

Note that it says accusations, I have yet to see anything to proves those accusations. Nor has I seen anyone actually involved in security research say anything about it. The current best so called "proof" is of a couple of random people not knowing how to use Sysinternals System Monitor youtubing a log of Origin doing what seems to be a normal folder traverse. Looking at the clip, it actually lacks any file_read oeprations in the videod system monitor log.

That said, Origin seems to have been patched so the last time I did the same, it don't even traverse the program files directory outside of its own subfolder anymore. At least not after install, because I didn't reinstall before doing the last log.

As for the Eula being badly worded, that's a totally different issue, and something that they should and did take flak for before changing it. In reality, Steam is almost as bad, it's just worded to sound much nicer while allowing the same things.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:07 pm

FUD, FUD and even more FUD.


That's good news. Perhaps someone who's familiar with the matter and with Wikipedia could edit the information.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:47 pm

Yan wrote:
FUD, FUD and even more FUD.


That's good news. Perhaps someone who's familiar with the matter and with Wikipedia could edit the information.


It wouldn't last- making evil companies like EA look better, even if true, is not politically correct on Wikipedia.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:39 pm

Yan wrote:
FUD, FUD and even more FUD.


That's good news. Perhaps someone who's familiar with the matter and with Wikipedia could edit the information.


Why? There is no point in editing Wikipedia at all - it is not a reliable source of information (Wikipedia directly states that fact on its own page) but merely a tool for a few "chosen" bureaucrats to stroke their egoes by using various "guidelines" and "policies" to deter the casual editors... I mean look at the photo of Xbox One - it has a weird shiny surface on the left with green moss growing on the right side and you cannot actually use better "press kit" photos of Xbox One released by Microsoft themselves even though Microsoft does not restrict their usage in any way :roll: Go ahead, try to do that - your edits will be reverted regardless of your true intentions.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:41 pm

Wikipedia's editors are definitely biased as hell, and corrupt to boot, but the alternatives aren't really any better. Unfortunately truth is usually in the eye of the beholder.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:45 am

NovusBogus wrote: but the alternatives aren't really any better

Google search has never failed me so far. Even after they started censoring stuff.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:25 am

This is really pathetic. Someone posts a legitimate request for information, and everyone gangs up to make fun of him? Not a single post that even attempts to answer the question? I'm ashamed.

I looked at this thread because I'd like to know if there is a simple way to block Origin, too, but I guess it was a waste of time.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:51 am

It was answered. You just don't want to read.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:17 am

My recommendation if you're not okay with what Origin does is to simply not use it. Publishers like EA get away with the crap they do because people put up with it instead of spending their money elsewhere. I realize that's not quite the answer the OP wanted, but when it gets to the point of wondering how to protect yourself from a piece of software maybe that software just isn't worth it?

As far as trying to sandbox it, the only thing I can think of would be VMware which doesn't work well with 3D graphics.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:23 pm

People don't get it... Origin's online connection is a form of DRM. You can prevent the Origin-enabled games from accessing the Internet but that involves circumventing the DRM. Which is illegal. So I kindly suggest not to discuss such things in public forums.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:26 pm

JohnC wrote:People don't get it... Origin's online connection is a form of DRM. You can prevent the Origin-enabled games from accessing the Internet but that involves circumventing the DRM. Which is illegal. So I kindly suggest not to discuss such things in public forums.

I completely agree. If a company, or some random forum-goer, claims something the company does is DRM, then it must never be discussed in public, no matter what it is.

By the way, JohnC, do you have some sort of ties to EA or another company that employs DRM? I'm not necessarily opposed to DRM that does not secretly scan your HDD and send back undisclosed information under a total indemnity clause. But your responses seem overly sympathetic to such things, which is strange, as I think most people consider them abhorrent and immoral.

You can't legitimately claim that only information of type "X, Y, and Z" is sent back unless you not only possess the source code, but also have proven mathematically that nothing other than X, Y, or Z can be sent back - which is generally impossible to do for a non-trivial program, regardless of the programmer's intent. And as personal information on individuals is now considered "corporate assets" and subject to forfeiture to the highest bidder in bankruptcy... any claims of a company about how they intend to use your information are pretty much irrelevant.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:48 pm

Saber Cherry wrote:
JohnC wrote:People don't get it... Origin's online connection is a form of DRM. You can prevent the Origin-enabled games from accessing the Internet but that involves circumventing the DRM. Which is illegal. So I kindly suggest not to discuss such things in public forums.

I completely agree. If a company, or some random forum-goer, claims something the company does is DRM, then it must never be discussed in public, no matter what it is.

Unfortunately, this is the US and the discussion of ways to circumvent anti-piracy features violates Federal Law (the DMCA) as well as Forum Rule #1. Philosophical discussions over the appropriateness of DRM schemes is just fine, but openly discussing how to circumvent them simply will not be tolerated here.

Thanks for listening.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:18 pm

Saber Cherry wrote:By the way, JohnC, do you have some sort of ties to EA or another company that employs DRM?

I do not have any affiliations with game publisher or distributor companies. I just do not have any irrational fears/paranoia towards any of them, be it either EA, Valve or whatever. Same way I do not have issues with using Android-powered smartphone and Google's services for it. If you do - like I've said several times, I suggest not using any of their products.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:01 pm

I still don't get why people have their panties in a bunch because of EA while they can easily let so many other things from tons of other companies, it's like people project all the pent up anger on the whole world on a single company. Easy way out of it, don't buy their products, don't use em, and hence, don't write or complain. Or use em, knowingly fully well that they are like any other company out there. Then be happy for the ton of good games they publish to the market.


Saber Cherry wrote:By the way, JohnC, do you have some sort of ties to EA or another company that employs DRM? I'm not necessarily opposed to DRM that does not secretly scan your HDD and send back undisclosed information under a total indemnity clause. But your responses seem overly sympathetic to such things, which is strange, as I think most people consider them abhorrent and immoral.

The point here is simple, they don't. Because you know, they never did, they just had a very badly written EULA that has since been rewritten to coincide with reality.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:03 pm

I'm not necessarily opposed to DRM that does not secretly scan your HDD and send back undisclosed information under a total indemnity clause.


Where did he say he supports such things?

The whole first part of this thread details that Origin does not do those things and even has a quote from the relevant part of the EULA.

Origin has an offline mode just like Steam, though I presume people meant something a little stronger. As Ned noted that's not a discussion that can be had here.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:50 pm

JohnC wrote:People don't get it... Origin's online connection is a form of DRM. You can prevent the Origin-enabled games from accessing the Internet but that involves circumventing the DRM. Which is illegal. So I kindly suggest not to discuss such things in public forums.


I was asking about allegations that Origin was "accessing tax programs and other unrelated software" (to quote Wikipedia). These allegations may or may not be true, but surely accessing tax programs is not DRM.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:54 pm

Yan wrote:(to quote Wikipedia)

I now see the problem.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:32 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Yan wrote:(to quote Wikipedia)

I now see the problem.


Classy. Where do you get your superior information?

Ryu Connor wrote:
I'm not necessarily opposed to DRM that does not secretly scan your HDD and send back undisclosed information under a total indemnity clause.


Where did he say he supports such things?

Where did I say JohnC said he supported such things? I just asked if he had ties to such schemes, and he replied that he did not.

He's still mocking people who dislike such things, though. Which is rude. But hey, if we live in a world where it's illegal to voice dissent, then I guess JohnC has the upper hand and dissenters should shut up.

Ryu Connor wrote:The whole first part of this thread details that Origin does not do those things and even has a quote from the relevant part of the EULA.

And I stated that it's impossible for a forumer to prove that Origin does not do these things, and it appears that EA initially had a EULA indemnifying them if, in fact, they did do these things. Why would they create such a thing (an original EULA indemnifying them from any possible implication of their scheme)? I don't, since I don't attempt to steal peoples' information with my software. You're also ignoring the fact that the possible information theft is virtually unprovable. I could write something that would only send personal information randomly, or if I detected Sysinternals (etc) was not running. Of course EA could do the same. Since they're the ones that send undisclosed information back home, the burden of proof that it cannot possibly be personally identifiable is on them, not me.

Most importantly, because stolen personal information is considered assets - which can be sold, re-stolen, or forfeited without the company's consent - a company's intention does not matter. So EA's intentions with Origin are irrelevant, and unless they are willing to submit their source code and a mathematical proof that it is impossible for Origin to grab any unwanted information, the burden of proof rests on EA, not me. If EA does not want to potentially harm their customers, it's very simple to just not scan peoples' HDDs and send information back home.

Origin has an offline mode just like Steam, though I presume people meant something a little stronger. As Ned noted that's not a discussion that can be had here.

Well then, I won't discuss Origin's offline mode. But even for Steam, the offline mode is obviously insecure. You can't install things in the offline mode. Hence, you can't play anything without going online at least once. Hence, the only reason for the offline mode to exist is to play games without notifying people on your friends list that you are playing those games, which adds zero personal security.

I use Steam, but it's always disappointed me. I do not use it for any game I can buy in a DRM-free box at a store, or as a direct digital download. Still, as far as I can tell, it's better than Origin (which I have never used, so I can't say for sure). But what would I know, since it's illegal to talk about what DRM schemes actually do.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:06 am

Saber Cherry wrote:And I stated that it's impossible for a forumer to prove that Origin does not do these things

Yes. It is certainly possible that Origin does more than what is outlined in EULA. Same goes for Microsoft/Google/Apple/Blizzard/Valve/Symantec/Avast/AVG/Kaspersky Labs/McAfee and your ISP. Like I said before, if you don't like it - don't use these services or better yet, do not store your "secret agent data" on an internet-connected PC/laptop/tablet/smartphone. This is the ONLY way to be 100% sure that your "secret" information will not be shared or be accessible through an internet by any of such companies/services. Use your "common sense" once in a while, people :roll:
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:51 pm

And I stated that it's impossible for a forumer to prove that Origin does not do these things


There are plenty of people on this forum (and others) with the skills to prove such things. There are enough freely available diagnostic/debug tools on the Internet that even a laymen could figure if someone was up to no good. Of course some of them would due to lack of skill would interpret a false positive and Aphasia already noted an example of that.

EA lying in the EULA and using it as spyware would get them civilly sued. You need only remember this bit of secrecy for a reminder of the consequences EA is susceptible to.

As for the original EULA, that's what lawyers do, they generate broad statements to cover butts. That doesn't imply that anything untoward was occurring.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:38 pm

To anyone who says Origin isn't spying, you're lying and using bandwagon "go along to get along" logic. They only gave you an opt out for the hardware survey, while still spying on your system. Concerned people don't want EA to be collecting any information, no matter what it is, or how inconsequential it is. Concerned individuals shouldn't consider naysayers opinions, because they're not offering any constructive information relevant to the OP. To anyone who says using Origin securely is "illegal", "impossible", or "piracy", ROFLMAO, because you aren't reverse engineering anything, or stealing software. Which BTW, isn't stealing, but copyright infringement. There are perfectly legal ways to run your games through Origin, without allowing Origin to spy on the rest of your computer.

Firewall it.
http://www.ghacks.net/2011/11/04/want-t ... n-do-this/
Sandboxie.
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You could probably just install Origin inside a VM with internet access, download your games, then copy them over to your main system where Origin is firewalled and sandboxed, so you can play unspied on. It's very possible, and perfectly legal, because you're not cracking or *HURR "CIRCUMVENTING" DURR* anything. You're just denying it access to spy on your system.

You know what we should be really complaining about being illegal? Origin spying on you. Not paying customers wanting some privacy and respect. Maybe a little less inconvenient drm too.

EA won the worst company in America award twice in a row, quite deservedly, and people who stick up for them make me sick.
http://consumerist.com/2013/04/09/ea-ma ... -in-a-row/

EA needs to have more than a survey opt-out, they need to just ditch Origin altogether, and switch to a browser based download model. Or at least allow that as an option, for people wanting to skip Origin altogether.
Last edited by l33t-g4m3r on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Using Origin securely

Postposted on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:02 pm

Not sure where you're coming from man- but you might want to back off of the tin foil.

You install their networked software on your machine- so it has access to it. But are they 'spying'? What does that even mean?

I applaud your 'solution,' it's nice to know that there's an effective method for isolating Origin (or Steam, or anything else, right?) from your system and personal files/information. But again, what's the point? What exactly is Origin 'spying' getting them? I mean, if they're collecting usage statistics, is that 'spying'? If they're collecting PII, isn't that illegal, and wouldn't they haven been caught by now, given all of the scrutiny they're receiving?
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