Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, Captain Ned
bhtooefr wrote:Yes it is.11-11.5 seconds is not slow.
bhtooefr wrote:It'd take a pretty steep hill for me to have to downshift at cruising speed. *any* sufficiently powerful car doesn't make you downshift on hills. That sort of thing's largely the domain of underpowered cars or specific instances where you're in a gear that barely works for your speed.Oh, and once a modern turbodiesel car is at speed, you usually don't have to even downshift for hills. Try that in a gasser.
bhtooefr wrote:You were also driving an automatic transmission. You'd have to shift it into manual mode to make a valid comparison.Hell, in my car, on one hill, to maintain 60 MPH, I downshift into 4th. Fair enough.
Then, in a friend's Mazda3 2.3 with a 5-speed Sport AT, I was taking that same hill at the same speed. I push down on the go pedal to compensate for it slowing down. It drops into 4th, and is STILL losing speed. So, I push further. It gets into 3rd gear before it stops losing speed. Yes, I know, I wasn't pushing it into the floor like I do my car.
bhtooefr wrote:So does pretty much any adequately powered vehicle.Also, passing is ridiculously easy - these TDIs pull like a freight train on the freeway.
bhtooefr wrote:Yeah, you really need to lock it in gear if you're interested in necessity, or test with an AT diesel. FWIW I don't remember needing to downshift for hills with my old saturn either, although aggressive passing was another matter. Appropriate gearing goes a long way.2.8L 6-cylinder vs. a 1.9L 4-cylinder? Another unfair comparison... (I'll admit, the Mazda comparison was poor...)
bhtooefr wrote:Yes, by a bit.Doesn't the VR have more torque than the TDI, stock?
bhtooefr wrote:Peak torque location cuts both ways a bit. Steeper gear ratios are going to cut into your wheel torque. Torque band width is obviously important tooAnother thing is, many people won't take their engines above 4,000. On a TDI, you've got more power AVAILABLE without having to rev the engine out far. (Yes, there's exceptions to the rule - the Americans and Germans are both well known for torque even on gassers, and Honda's not as bad on torque as everyone says they are. But, even then, the diesels usually have more torque, and lower-end torque.)
bhtooefr wrote:Honestly, I'd need to drive one or at least see some detailed accelleration plots and dyno charts to answer that. There's always a difference between "more than powerful enough" and "truly enjoyable" too. I mean I've driven similarly slow vehicles and they got the job done, but in less than ideal fashion, depending on driving location. Go out on empty country roads and power isn't real important, but if you're driving in crowded freeways the minimum standard goes way up.Oh, and do you agree that in normal driving, the 1.9 TDI is MORE than powerful enough?
mattsteg wrote:bhtooefr wrote:Yes it is.11-11.5 seconds is not slow.
Allan McNish said at Lime Rock Park that he is losing a longtime girlfriend, but the new girl is much quieter and sexier.
bhtooefr wrote:Umm, it's not all about speed, Synchromesh...
And, 11-11.5 seconds is more than enough speed for the average driver.
I'll admit, an engine like mine, where you MUST wind it out to 4500 in each gear if traffic is busy, to not get run over, is slow.
11-11.5 seconds is not slow. The Prius is in the same territory, FWIW.
Oh, and once a modern turbodiesel car is at speed, you usually don't have to even downshift for hills. Try that in a gasser.
Hell, in my car, on one hill, to maintain 60 MPH, I downshift into 4th. Fair enough.
Then, in a friend's Mazda3 2.3 with a 5-speed Sport AT, I was taking that same hill at the same speed. I push down on the go pedal to compensate for it slowing down. It drops into 4th, and is STILL losing speed. So, I push further. It gets into 3rd gear before it stops losing speed. Yes, I know, I wasn't pushing it into the floor like I do my car.
Also, passing is ridiculously easy - these TDIs pull like a freight train on the freeway.
Oh, and a chip will cure ANY slowness problems cheaply.
How about you have a nice tall glass of STFU, and realize that diesels have their strengths - even on performance?
Edit: SpotTheCat, the flame wasn't intended towards you, BTW. I started writing it before you posted. You might consider coming to a get together or something, and seeing what 100hp is like when it comes to power.
Hance wrote:JustAnEngineer torque means ALOT for automobile performance . You put a trailer behind two pickup trucks one with a 325hp/325ftlbs gas engine and a 325hp/600ftlbs diesel and tell still tell me torque means nothing .
bhtooefr wrote:Also, read this: http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=100&i=9847
Basically, if you're NOT revving the piss out of it, the 535d is faster than the M5.
Now, the M5 is faster once you DO rev the piss out of it, but...