Give back those gold medals, China

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Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:46 am

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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:49 am

Even before I looked at the article, I had the image of that tiny little girl in my head from watching gymnastics last night.
That girl looked very very YOUNG. NO WAY 16 years old.

It'll be interesting to see how this develops for sure. We've been watching most of the Olympics DVR'ed with LOTS of fast forwarding :-)
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:01 am

http://www.athlists.com/?p=36

While not the most neutral article around, there's not denying that china is going out of their way on the olympics.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:18 am

Geez, when is the last time somebody was caught cheating in the Olympics?

Oh that is right, getting "caught" is the key. :lol:

I hate to break it, but these kind of stunts are probably just tips of the iceberg. China is not the only player either.

I remember when the Soviet blocs women teams were using roids and other hormone treatments for their training.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:29 am

Even if the IOC/FIG could somehow prove their ages and goes ahead and strips them of their medals, I'm sure China will just work around it in 2012 by giving drugs to the next round of girls to suppress their hormones and keep them from developing normally.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:39 am

After the CGIed fireworks on TV and the fake opening child singer why am I not surprised?
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:41 pm

I guess there is honor in cheating...
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:50 pm

Well, yeah, even Bela Karolyi was harping on about it. At least one person isn't amused by it:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 979c2.html

To me, China has a PR problem similar to other dictatorships, you get politburo people making PR decisions and there's no one around to tell them it's a bad idea.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:34 pm

drsauced wrote:Well, yeah, even Bela Karolyi was harping on about it. At least one person isn't amused by it:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 979c2.html

To me, China has a PR problem similar to other dictatorships, you get politburo people making PR decisions and there's no one around to tell them it's a bad idea.

This guy just thinks that's just another case of sour grapes.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:45 pm

If your sport needs a minimum age...maybe it's time to look into what sort it is in the first place.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:51 pm

I agree this is bad, but the time for action has long since passed. Instead of imploring the FIG or IOC after the fact, this issue should have been pressed before the games. Or, to spin it another way, for future games there should be more rigorous assurances of athlete eligibility.
I don't see that theres much that can be done now, and I certainly wouldn't like to see any changes in the medal standings "after the fact" (on a "two wrongs don't make a right" principle).
The best comment I've heard about it is that, if we accept the Chinese word at face value then someone needs to rush their gymnasts to the hospital immediately, because 68 pounds for a 16 year old girl indicates something is seriously wrong.

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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:32 pm

Reminds me of the days of the "East German Swim Team"
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:26 pm

I agree with Turkina. No need to start crying about it now.

I also like to add that, as far as I know (read), they have by no means been extraordinary anyway. They've been winning much because of other's mistakes.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:48 pm

I for one dont think there should be an age limit for Olympic events. Most of the events take years of training and practice so if a 14 year old is good enough to compete let them.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:01 pm

I don't think their age is a problem either. Their "gymnastics gulags", as someone called them, are much worse.

But aaaanyway... The olympics, the IOC, and many of the different sports organizations, have become so utterly rotten, cheating and bribery is everyday business. Furthermore, most of the events has become material sports more than athletics, and medicine today is so advanced that I have no doubt that several top athletes use enhancer(s) of some kind (even though they probably have not yet even been classified, so..).

Yeah, I'm a cynic, but the olympics is retarded.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:18 am

FubbHead wrote:I don't think their age is a problem either. Their "gymnastics gulags", as someone called them, are much worse.


Yeah, a couple nights ago they were talking about how one of the Chinese little girls called home from her training facility. They said she only sees her parents once a year. When she called home, saying she wanted to come home - her parents said no. Wouldn't want to piss the state off I guess. :-?
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:26 am

FubbHead wrote:medicine today is so advanced that I have no doubt that several top athletes use enhancer(s) of some kind (even though they probably have not yet even been classified, so..).

I have been saying for years that it is now more of a competition about who has the bigger+better labs.

FroBozz_Inc wrote:
FubbHead wrote:I don't think their age is a problem either. Their "gymnastics gulags", as someone called them, are much worse.

Yeah, a couple nights ago they were talking about how one of the Chinese little girls called home from her training facility. They said she only sees her parents once a year. When she called home, saying she wanted to come home - her parents said no. Wouldn't want to piss the state off I guess. :-?

You also have to understand that with 1.3+ billion people and counting in the country, this is almost the only way to get ahead. Most of these people may never have a chance to get on a plane (or even a boat) and at least go to foreign countries, nor those people can afford to at least feed the kids and provide the necessities (at least they will have to be educated enough to say a few things for interviews and to look at the scoreboard, so at a minimum they have some basic speaking+reading skills). Kind of like a couple of decades ago the only legitimate way for South Americans (Brazil and Argentina in particular) to get rich/ahead is to play football/soccer good and get out of the country.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:22 pm

In light of this controversy, I found it particularly gratifying that Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson took the gold and silver medals in the women's all-around gymnastics competition.

That's not to take anything away from the Chinese girls, who clearly are caught in the middle of all this, undoubtedly worked their butts off to get where they are, and put on a terrific show in the team competition. But if there is any truth to these allegations, then having the top two medals in the all-around taken by the Americans (anyone other than the Chinese, really) seems like a bit of poetic justice.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:41 am

Lucky Jack Aubrey wrote:In light of this controversy, I found it particularly gratifying that Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson took the gold and silver medals in the women's all-around gymnastics competition.

That's not to take anything away from the Chinese girls, who clearly are caught in the middle of all this, undoubtedly worked their butts off to get where they are, and put on a terrific show in the team competition. But if there is any truth to these allegations, then having the top two medals in the all-around taken by the Americans (anyone other than the Chinese, really) seems like a bit of poetic justice.

I see this a bit more simpler really. In the team competition they fell and made mistakes. Now they made less in their all-around, so they of course deserved the medals. Of course being a judged sport you can always have the variances.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:13 am

With gymnasts under 15 winning Gold its kinda sad to think a girl/young woman of 18-21...when they are at their most graceful and attractive age,is considered over the hill and too old for the event.
CNN had a special on the Chinese girls...walking on their hands for 3 minutes at age 6 so as to "get in shape"...(don't cry baby..."Its worth it" etc) comments following her round the course.
One father admitted his daughter hated the program but then said"It's the best way to get our family out of poverty...she'll get over it".
I think 16 oughta be the minimum age for any Olympic event,do we really want to see it turn into a sporting event for children 10-20 years down the track?
At least 2 of the Chinese team members looked barely older than 12-13.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:25 am

I checked on the minimum age thing in Wikipedia, and the minimum age was only ~10 until round the fall of the Soviet Union.
I dunno, I think there are worse things in the world than girls starting out at a young age. It's not our girls are really doing anything different; it's just that their parents are driving the effort instead of the state.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:16 pm

If there should be an age limit at all, they should put it at something like 18 or 20, to try to protect the kids somewhat, so they might have some time experiencing being a kid.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:03 am

FubbHead wrote:If there should be an age limit at all, they should put it at something like 18 or 20, to try to protect the kids somewhat, so they might have some time experiencing being a kid.

No, that'd just ensure that they live in their militant gymnast compounds an extra couple of years.

In China, though, living on the gymnast farm really is a way to get ahead. I dunno. :-?
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:08 am

Well the results are in...both the Nth Korean and the Romanian girls who won gold were absolute sweethearts and well deserved to win.
Talk about leave it to the last gasp...the Romanian girl was the final contestant and did an almost flawless floor routine.
The nice USA girl,Shawn Johnson who came second took it very graciously and looked pleased as punch to score a Silver medal in such company.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:13 pm

Anybody else watch Alicia Sacrimone get 4th place, knocked off by a chinese girl who didn't even land on her feat, yet barely got docked points for it.

The points-giving was attoricious. Reminds me of the Figure Skating scandal that was, 10 years ago?
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:06 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:Reminds me of the Figure Skating scandal that was, 10 years ago?

6 years ago in Salt Lake City.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:12 pm

Kevin wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:Reminds me of the Figure Skating scandal that was, 10 years ago?

6 years ago in Salt Lake City.

Yeah, that one.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:21 pm

Yeah, I have a hard time enjoying events that are so arbitrary in scoring. It's amazing to watch stuff like gymnastics, diving, figure skating, etc., but it's too depressing to get emotionally attached to any particular team or athlete.

This year has been real bad for gymnastics, in my opinion, primarily due to the ability of the judges to reply the matches and even view slow motion footage. That just allows for judges to nitpick a routine to death.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:44 pm

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/ ... prove.html

OK, actual Chinese-language sources, including the People's Daily (the Pravda/Izvestia of China) document one of the girls as 13 in November 2007. If an organ of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China says she's 13, she's 13.
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Re: Give back those gold medals, China

Postposted on Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:27 am

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