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Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:40 pm**

I dont know about you all but I applaud Roger Goodell for his heavy handedness in the handling of the Saints Bounty Program. All professional sports need a Commissioner like Goodell. Heck Pro-baseball could benefit greatly from someone like him!

Now lets smackdown those players that participated!

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:45 pm**

*Payton.

I'm not sure I agree with the penalty. I have not made up my mind. It was certainly shocking, in any event.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:19 pm**

I've got a feeling the penalty was so severe because of the efforts to cover it up, and deny that it was happening.. something like the difference between pre-meditated and accidental..

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:48 pm**

druidcent wrote:
I've got a feeling the penalty was so severe because of the efforts to cover it up, and deny that it was happening.. something like the difference between pre-meditated and accidental..

I think you might be on to something. I mean, as far as I'm concerned everyone has a bounty program - it's just a matter of getting caught.

My opinions may or may not be valid. :lol:

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:52 pm**

derFunkenstein wrote:
I mean, as far as I'm concerned everyone has a bounty program - it's just a matter of getting caught.

Well, feeding Marshawn Lynch a pile of Skittles after he demolishes a defense is one thing, but cash is a whole different problem.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:21 pm**

Captain Ned wrote:
derFunkenstein wrote:
I mean, as far as I'm concerned everyone has a bounty program - it's just a matter of getting caught.

Well, feeding Marshawn Lynch a pile of Skittles after he demolishes a defense is one thing, but cash is a whole different problem.

I was only half-listening, but I thought I heard on NFL Network something like this: "he (Goodell?) told the Patriots to knock it off and they did; he told the Saints to knock it off and they didn't."

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:49 pm**

I have a hard time working up some mock outrage over a "bounty" program. It's essentially what defensive players (and offensive linemen) are paid to do in the first place. Crush the opposing team. I also think it's ridiculous that Goodell or anyone in the league office should be allow to pretend they're making this decision to protect the players. The NFL is still trying desperately trying to deny the link between playing football and brain damage. Makes me sick to my stomach a bit to pretend Roger Goodell is a good guy.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:47 pm**

Think SMU, circa 1987. They want to make the Saints howl, so that no one ever does this again*

Greg Williams never works in the NFL again. Even if they reinstate him, no one will touch him.

*and by "never does this again I mean never documents it so thoroughly and ignores repeated hints to hush it up.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:14 pm**

The main reasons for the penalty are that so many staff members were involved, and the Saints were told to knock it off while the investigation was going on, and kept doing it.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:38 pm**

Gregg Williams et. al. deserved their punishments. I wonder how harsh the penalties will be for the players involved.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:42 pm**

idchafee wrote:
Greg Williams never works in the NFL again. Even if they reinstate him, no one will touch him.

Somebody will, if he's reinstated. He'll be a "special consultant" or something.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:50 am**

riviera74 wrote:
I wonder how harsh the penalties will be for the players involved.

They need to be harsh. And I am thinking they will be seeing as how Goodell pulled the strong hand on the coaches. But its going to be a long and drawn out process because now Goodell has to contend with the NFLPA, the union. And like all unions do, their constituents are always innocent and they will fight everything.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:07 am**

Washer wrote:
I have a hard time working up some mock outrage over a "bounty" program. It's essentially what defensive players (and offensive linemen) are paid to do in the first place. Crush the opposing team. I also think it's ridiculous that Goodell or anyone in the league office should be allow to pretend they're making this decision to protect the players. The NFL is still trying desperately trying to deny the link between playing football and brain damage. Makes me sick to my stomach a bit to pretend Roger Goodell is a good guy.

Paying a player to intentionally hurt another player is not ok. If this was just paying bonuses for sacks, put it in the contract that way.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:48 am**

5150 wrote:
Paying a player to intentionally hurt another player is not ok. If this was just paying bonuses for sacks, put it in the contract that way.

So, you have a fundamental problem with football?

Football at all levels is inherently dangerous. Professional football players are by definition paid to hurt other players. "Intentional" or not, when you ram in to another person with all your might you are hurting them. Maybe it isn't immediately obvious, like with a knee tear, but the damage has been done. There's mountains of existing evidence showing this link. Just search "former players sue NFL" to see how the league is "taking care" of its former players. I find the league's actions with regard to concussions and long term brain damage to be FAR MORE dangerous than running a bounty program.

Mock outrage. People upset over this because the the league office told them to be outraged. It just wants to set an example. Defy Goodell and pay the price. That's the lesson here.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:23 am**

i have no idea what you guys are talking about, but i just wanted to let you all know i love you.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:16 am**

Washer wrote:
5150 wrote:
Paying a player to intentionally hurt another player is not ok. If this was just paying bonuses for sacks, put it in the contract that way.

So, you have a fundamental problem with football?

Football at all levels is inherently dangerous. Professional football players are by definition paid to hurt other players. "Intentional" or not, when you ram in to another person with all your might you are hurting them. Maybe it isn't immediately obvious, like with a knee tear, but the damage has been done. There's mountains of existing evidence showing this link. Just search "former players sue NFL" to see how the league is "taking care" of its former players. I find the league's actions with regard to concussions and long term brain damage to be FAR MORE dangerous than running a bounty program.

Mock outrage. People upset over this because the the league office told them to be outraged. It just wants to set an example. Defy Goodell and pay the price. That's the lesson here.

The NFL's callous and reprehensible behavior toward previous-gen players has nothing to do with the sanctions against the Saints.

Here's what it boils down to: the NFL told the Saints to do something. The Saints not only failed to obey the boss, they lied to him about it. Punishment warranted. Everything else is extraneous.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:25 am**

Yeats wrote:
Here's what it boils down to: the NFL told the Saints to do something. The Saints not only failed to obey the boss, they lied to him about it. Punishment warranted. Everything else is extraneous.

I think this sums it up pretty well.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:23 pm**

Washer wrote:
5150 wrote:
Paying a player to intentionally hurt another player is not ok. If this was just paying bonuses for sacks, put it in the contract that way.

So, you have a fundamental problem with football?

Football at all levels is inherently dangerous. Professional football players are by definition paid to hurt other players. "Intentional" or not, when you ram in to another person with all your might you are hurting them. Maybe it isn't immediately obvious, like with a knee tear, but the damage has been done. There's mountains of existing evidence showing this link. Just search "former players sue NFL" to see how the league is "taking care" of its former players. I find the league's actions with regard to concussions and long term brain damage to be FAR MORE dangerous than running a bounty program.

Mock outrage. People upset over this because the the league office told them to be outraged. It just wants to set an example. Defy Goodell and pay the price. That's the lesson here.

I agree with you that football is inherently dangerous, but it's relatively controlled, and has a well defined ruleset for when violence is allowed. Piledriving a QB into the dirt after he's handed off the ball (and not even involved with the play) or doing a high-low after he's thrown is a completely different story than trying to make the play. That's what the issue with the bounty system is. As a football player, you knowingly take some physical risks with your body, but that doesn't mean care shouldn't be taken to prevent excessive damage..

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:36 pm**

Yeats wrote:
The NFL's callous and reprehensible behavior toward previous-gen players has nothing to do with the sanctions against the Saints.

Here's what it boils down to: the NFL told the Saints to do something. The Saints not only failed to obey the boss, they lied to him about it. Punishment warranted. Everything else is extraneous.

That's what I said at the end, that this punishment is entirely about obedience and not safety. However, that is not how it has been portrayed by the NFL or through the sports media.

druidcent wrote:
I agree with you that football is inherently dangerous, but it's relatively controlled, and has a well defined ruleset for when violence is allowed. Piledriving a QB into the dirt after he's handed off the ball (and not even involved with the play) or doing a high-low after he's thrown is a completely different story than trying to make the play. That's what the issue with the bounty system is. As a football player, you knowingly take some physical risks with your body, but that doesn't mean care shouldn't be taken to prevent excessive damage..

Rules have been changed to protect "high value" positions like the quarterback and to prevent especially frightening collisions. You see this in the numerous rules that dictate how QBs can be hit, rules regarding defenseless receivers crossing the field, and moving the kick off 5 yards forward to prevent "gunning" to name a few. It's important to note that these changes do not protect players during the vast majority of the game.

You do not see rules requiring more effective equipment even though it already exists. You do not see enforcement of existing rules being increased. Ever notice how many players do not properly buckle their helmets? Hell, ever notice just how many helmets pop off in a game? That's a sign of an ill fitting helmet. The most important protection on the field and no one in the league office can't even be bothered to make sure the players are using it properly!

Which leads to another point, players largely have no clue the extent of the damage they're doing to their bodies. More importantly, the fans have no clue and the NFL actively tries to prevent it from being known. Why else have they been fighting for years now over these issues? Even after all of the evidence, hundreds of former players suing the league, etc, etc. Doesn't matter, safety is in no way a priority for the NFL unless it is to protect players like Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc. Players who have a direct impact on the money.

Roger Goodell is pissed the Saints disobeyed him. That's the reason for the punishment. It's a great way to show how off his power to the teams, and look like he cares about the player health to fans. It's a great way for the league to buy time in fan opinion as they try to figure out just how they're going to not help the players (which, if you haven't caught on, would be too expensive for the league's billionaire owners) before the wider fan base finally catches on.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:59 pm**

It's not even as much about showing off power as it is about protecting the league and the teams. Say Player X was seriously injured by a team that was subsequently proven to have participated in a bounty against that player. That could lead to a series of lawsuits - civil and criminal - against the league and team and players that had never been seen before. Goodell, as a lawyer, is very sensitive to this. The NFLPA should be, too.

As far as "mock outrage" goes, I'm not quite sure "mock" means what you think it means. There are people who are genuinely outraged over the bounty system. You might believe that outage to be misplaced or overblown, but that does not make their outrage "mock".

Finally, in your rage against the treatment of players, be sure to include the NFLPA. They have not pushed for better, safer equipment. The NFLPA wants as weak of a drug testing program as possible. The NFLPA supports dirty players and tries to protect them. They have done even less than the league has for the players who retired 20+ years ago - former NFPLA head Gene Upshaw once rather famously said he didn't care about retired players because they are not his constituency.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:43 pm**

Washer wrote:

You do not see rules requiring more effective equipment even though it already exists. You do not see enforcement of existing rules being increased. Ever notice how many players do not properly buckle their helmets? Hell, ever notice just how many helmets pop off in a game? That's a sign of an ill fitting helmet. The most important protection on the field and no one in the league office can't even be bothered to make sure the players are using it properly!

While I agree with you on this point its apples an oranges. The NFL doesnt have rules against this but almost every other governing football body does, from Pee-wee leagues to College. I do see this as a problem and an issue though in the NFL. Buckle your damn chin strap! Irks me to no end to see some receiver have the bottom two straps unbuckled at the line and then in that very same play lose his helmet because of a hit. Penalize that MFer!

Yeats wrote:
Finally, in your rage against the treatment of players, be sure to include the NFLPA. They have not pushed for better, safer equipment. The NFLPA wants as weak of a drug testing program as possible. The NFLPA supports dirty players and tries to protect them. They have done even less than the league has for the players who retired 20+ years ago - former NFPLA head Gene Upshaw once rather famously said he didn't care about retired players because they are not his constituency.

This is also a problem. The NFLPA....the union..... tries its damndest to get away with everything.

Posted: **Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:45 am**

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... the-head/1

Gregg Williams tells Saints to injure 49ers

"We've got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill Frank Gore's head," Williams said. "We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways.
"Respect comes from fear," Williams adds. "This is how you get respect in this league."

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