First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

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Re: First Build

Postposted on Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:12 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:$200-$250 isn't completely insane for a Radeon R9-270 / HD7870. True, these cards were $150-$200 last summer, but the markup here isn't nearly as brutal as the price gouging that Newegg is putting on the higher-end Radeon cards.

I must have missed several of those models earlier. An R9 270 around $200 is probably the best fit, then.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:58 pm

After many more hours of research I have modified what I am planning to use for my first build. This build will be used for video editing using Sony Vegas Pro 12 as well as some music production using Ableton. I would love some feedback on my choices :)

PROCESSOR ($250): Intel Xeon E3-1230V3 Haswell 3.3GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1150 80W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80646E31230V3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116906 I have no need or desire to overclock. I will be getting a discrete graphics card.

MOTHERBOARD ($165): ASUS Z87-PRO (V EDITION) LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813132046 I know, I know I don't need a Z87 board and could buy an H87 board since I won't be overclocking. BUT I do not want to go with a micro ATX board. That leaves one H87 option on Newegg which has only a handful of reviews. Yeah I know that there might not be a lot of reviews on it since there's "nothing to review" but I don't feel safe taking that chance. Plus, 3 of the slots are PCI and not PCI express...at least that's how I am interpreting what I am reading. Anyway, the board I am going with has enough good reviews to make me feel more comfortable purchasing it. It has plenty of PCI express slots as well.

VIDEO CARD ($170): EVGA 02G-P4-3753-KR GeForce GTX 750 Ti Superclocked 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814487024

MEMORY ($130): Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Profile Desktop Memory Model BLS2K8G3D1609ES2LX0 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148663

SSD ($95): Kingston HyperX 3K SH103S3/120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (Stand-Alone Drive) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1 This will be my boot drive and hold the programs I will be using. I will be using Sony Vegas Pro 12 and Ableton Live 9.1 and of course the Microsoft Office products.

HDD ($90): Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Bare Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

POWER SUPPLY ($90): CORSAIR CSM Series CS550M 550W ATX12V v2.4 and EPS 2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139059

CASE: ($120): Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Gunmetal Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811139013
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:25 pm

I would stay away from Kingston SSDs. I recently bought a Kingston V300 to use as a cache drive, and it turns out that they silently switched the NAND to a far inferior type which has only a fraction of the original drive's performance. They did this while keeping the exact same model number and packaging; basically a bait and switch on the customer. Luckily I hadn't opened the package yet, so I will be returning it and never purchasing anything from them again.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:31 pm

The Egg wrote:I would stay away from Kingston SSDs. I recently bought a Kingston V300 to use as a cache drive, and it turns out that they silently switched the NAND to a far inferior type which has only a fraction of the original drive's performance. They did this while keeping the exact same model number and packaging; basically a bait and switch on the customer. Luckily I hadn't opened the package yet, so I will be returning it and never purchasing anything from them again.

The HyperX 3K (that the OP stated) would not suffer that same fate. That's Kingston's top of the line SSD. The V300 is their budget drive, it only makes sense that they use Async NAND in that one.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:20 pm

iamjsmith83 wrote: VIDEO CARD: $175½ EVGA 02G-P4-3753-KR GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB
Radeon R9-270 simply stomps on GeForce GTX750Ti in gaming performance. Here's one that's only $3.07 more expensive than that underwhelming GeForce GTX 750Ti:
$190 -$11½ code "REMMUS79" MSI R9-270 2GB
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:13 pm

iamjsmith83 wrote:POWER SUPPLY ($90): CORSAIR CSM Series CS550M 550W ATX12V v2.4 and EPS 2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817139059


The Corsair CX 500M is $54.99 on Tiger Direct at the moment and $34.99 after MIR. The CX series are a little lower end than the CS series, and this is only 80Plus Bronze, not Gold, but I've had good experiences with Corsairs cheaper CX and VX units in the past.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:03 am

Apparently I have a problem...that Xeon processor that I wanted to get would not work with that motherboard. I figured that a socket 1150 Haswell chip would work in Z87 or H87 boards...nope. I nearly bought this damn thing! Thank Buddha someone on a forum on another site caught it for me
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:39 am

Apparently I have a problem...that Xeon processor that I wanted to get would not work with that motherboard. I figured that a socket 1150 Haswell chip would work in Z87 or H87 boards...nope. I nearly bought this damn thing! Thank Buddha someone on a forum on another site caught it for me


Sounds like it's specific to make and model. The ASUS Z87 Pro Spec page does not list Xeons as compatible processors.

But the ASRock Z87 Pro3 not only lists Xeons as compatible, it even specifically includes model numbers, including the E3-1230V3.*

EDIT: Of course, product spec pages have been known to be wrong in the past. I'm not seeing a whole lot of information and some conflicting reports on Xeon + LGA 1150. At least in the LGA 1156 and 1155 days, getting a Xeon in LGA 1156 or 1155 seemed to be an easy drop in onto a consumer motherboard.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:41 am

Voldenuit wrote:
Apparently I have a problem...that Xeon processor that I wanted to get would not work with that motherboard. I figured that a socket 1150 Haswell chip would work in Z87 or H87 boards...nope. I nearly bought this damn thing! Thank Buddha someone on a forum on another site caught it for me


Sounds like it's specific to make and model. The ASUS Z87 Pro Spec page does not list Xeons as compatible processors.

But the ASRock Z87 Pro3 not only lists Xeons as compatible, it even specifically includes model numbers, including the E3-1230V3.*

EDIT: Of course, product spec pages have been known to be wrong in the past. I'm not seeing a whole lot of information and some conflicting reports on Xeon + LGA 1150. At least in the LGA 1156 and 1155 days, getting a Xeon in LGA 1156 or 1155 seemed to be an easy drop in onto a consumer motherboard.


http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ ... sheet.html On page nine it says these work with the C220 series chipset. Guess it's back to the 4770
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:50 am

DPete27 wrote:
The Egg wrote:I would stay away from Kingston SSDs. I recently bought a Kingston V300 to use as a cache drive, and it turns out that they silently switched the NAND to a far inferior type which has only a fraction of the original drive's performance. They did this while keeping the exact same model number and packaging; basically a bait and switch on the customer. Luckily I hadn't opened the package yet, so I will be returning it and never purchasing anything from them again.

The HyperX 3K (that the OP stated) would not suffer that same fate. That's Kingston's top of the line SSD. The V300 is their budget drive, it only makes sense that they use Async NAND in that one.

Alot less likely, but it's the principle of the matter. It shows what kind of company they are, which is the kind that I don't trust and won't do business with.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:30 am

The Egg wrote:Alot less likely, but it's the principle of the matter. It shows what kind of company they are, which is the kind that I don't trust and won't do business with.

I guess for me its one of the "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is" situations. There's a reason the V300's are regularly the cheapest cost/GB for SSDs.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:55 pm

Ok now it's time to choose a video card. Everywhere I go people seem to be split on whether AMD or NVIDIA is a better choice. Keep in mind that all of my video editing will be using Sony Vegas Pro 12. THAT is why I am building my first computer. Anyway, here is a rendering time comparison from anandtech.com but I honestly have no clue whether they are influenced by anyone and don't feel like checking at this very moment...correction-I just checked and they basically claim to be unbiased... http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/846

Looks to me like AMD owns. But do you guys think I should trust this? I was thinking about purchasing this Gigabyte R7 260x ($150): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814125486
Any objections to that?

On the Sony Vegas Pro 12 page regarding GPUs it says, "AMD/ATI Requires an OpenCL-enabled GPU and Catalyst driver 11.7 or later with a Radeon HD 57xx or higher GPU. If using a FirePro GPU, FirePro unified driver 8.85 or later is required." But when I checked manufacture pages they say they are Open GL and I see no mention of Open CL. But I saw somewhere that open CL is an industry wide standard...so I am confused as hell on this.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/veg ... celeration

Your thoughts?
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:08 pm

Everything you've said is correct. The R7-260X is a good choice.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:33 pm

iamjsmith83 wrote:Ok now it's time to choose a video card. Everywhere I go people seem to be split on whether AMD or NVIDIA is a better choice. Keep in mind that all of my video editing will be using Sony Vegas Pro 12. THAT is why I am building my first computer. Anyway, here is a rendering time comparison from anandtech.com but I honestly have no clue whether they are influenced by anyone and don't feel like checking at this very moment...correction-I just checked and they basically claim to be unbiased... http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/846


Anand does not tell if they used Cuda for Nvidia cards. They probably did not. Cuda support is about only reason why I would consider Nvidia card. OpenCL should run faster with AMD, still Cuda may be supported better on that software.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:47 pm

I was actually thinking about taking a step up to this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814127769
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:53 pm

Wicked Mystic wrote:
iamjsmith83 wrote:Ok now it's time to choose a video card. Everywhere I go people seem to be split on whether AMD or NVIDIA is a better choice. Keep in mind that all of my video editing will be using Sony Vegas Pro 12. THAT is why I am building my first computer. Anyway, here is a rendering time comparison from anandtech.com but I honestly have no clue whether they are influenced by anyone and don't feel like checking at this very moment...correction-I just checked and they basically claim to be unbiased... http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/846


Anand does not tell if they used Cuda for Nvidia cards. They probably did not. Cuda support is about only reason why I would consider Nvidia card. OpenCL should run faster with AMD, still Cuda may be supported better on that software.


So if I am understanding this correctly, OpenCL is supported with AMD and NVIDIA and thus should have no consideration for my decision?
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:58 pm

iamjsmith83 wrote:
Wicked Mystic wrote:
iamjsmith83 wrote:Ok now it's time to choose a video card. Everywhere I go people seem to be split on whether AMD or NVIDIA is a better choice. Keep in mind that all of my video editing will be using Sony Vegas Pro 12. THAT is why I am building my first computer. Anyway, here is a rendering time comparison from anandtech.com but I honestly have no clue whether they are influenced by anyone and don't feel like checking at this very moment...correction-I just checked and they basically claim to be unbiased... http://anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/846


Anand does not tell if they used Cuda for Nvidia cards. They probably did not. Cuda support is about only reason why I would consider Nvidia card. OpenCL should run faster with AMD, still Cuda may be supported better on that software.


So if I am understanding this correctly, OpenCL is supported with AMD and NVIDIA and thus should have no consideration for my decision?


Yes but Cuda may be faster and that's only Nvidia supported.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:15 pm

Wicked Mystic wrote:Yes but Cuda may be faster and that's only Nvidia supported.

Or CUDA may not be faster than OpenCL, or well supported for what he's doing. And then you've got a Nvidia GPU that's much slower at OpenCL (which is universal) than any AMD GPU....
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:23 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Wicked Mystic wrote:Yes but Cuda may be faster and that's only Nvidia supported.

Or CUDA may not be faster than OpenCL, or well supported for what he's doing. And then you've got a Nvidia GPU that's much slower at OpenCL (which is universal) than any AMD GPU....


Right. He is going to use Sony Vegas pro. Then only thing that matters what video card is best for that software.

If it's not, then AMD is better choice because OpenCL is much better at least on hardware side. Simple.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:07 pm

I'm just going to go ahead and order the MSI R9 270 for $190. Seems like it's a good price for what it can do.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:59 pm

iamjsmith83 wrote:I'm just going to go ahead and order the MSI R9 270 for $190. Seems like it's a good price for what it can do.


Sounds reasonable :)

I have 50+ users using OpenCL every working day using Radeons. They're the best option for the majority of OpenCL applications, and that includes 3D rendering and compute tasks in general. I tested our four main applications with Radeons, Geforces, FirePros and Quadros (because they were on-hand). Radeons are at the top of the price/performance curve by some margin for us, that's for sure.

Occasionally you'll wish you had an nVidia card because biased/backhanded vendor X has chosen or been finacially incentivized to optimise solely for the proprietary nVidia CUDA API. Proprietary never ends well, it is a dirty, selfish, industry-crippling word;

OpenCL applications already outnumber and outperform CUDA alernatives for the most part, because developers have started to realise that AMD's GCN cards are an OpenGL compute monsters in comparison to Nvidia's shader-optimised gaming cards, complete with the full-market benefit of open-standard goodness against the nVidia-controlled captive audience of CUDA.

Am I biased? Maybe, though I'm not trying to unfairly represent CUDA, because it's very capable as an API.
Am I sick of nVidia's marketing bull****, selfishness towards industry standards, and ridiculous Quadro pricing? Hell yes.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:42 pm

iamjsmith83 wrote:I was actually thinking about taking a step up to this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814127769
That Radeon R9-270 for $178.59 (after you apply the 6% discount code "REMMUS79" in your cart) should provide excellent performance (between the Radeon HD7870 and R9-270X on the chart).
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:44 am

I went ahead and ordered that video card on Amazon for that same price.

I hear ya Chrispy. I think the card is going to be great for what I do in Sony Vegas. The substantially decreased rendering times are what really sold me.

Is that whole Haswell/Power Supply compatibility thing a crock? Some of the power supplies I was looking at (all in the 500W area) didn't say they were verified Haswell compatible. Some basically said that they should work but haven't been verified. I haven't run across a review of anyone having an issue but then again I haven't really spent a whole heck of a lot of time reading reviews.

Quick question for you guys about fans/cooling. I bought the Corsair Vengeance C70 Case. It literally was dropped off on my doorstep as I started writing this! I was planning on replacing the 3 fans it comes with; all are 120mm. I was thinking of getting two Corsair static pressure fans (the quiet instead of the high performance) and putting them in front of the hard drives. Then I was going to get 2 fans and mount them on the top of the case. Those two on the top can be either 120mm or 140mm. Not sure if I want to get the Corsair AF or SP for those. I guess I don't need the SP. But I was going to get those two in the quiet edition. And lastly, I will put a 120mm fan on the back similar to the ones I mount on the top of the case. So that's a total of 5 fans. I was thinking that with these 5 fans running at lower speeds will move a ton of air and keep the case cool all while being quiet. Am I wrong? Is that overkill? Should I get less fans? I was thinking I could get less fans and run them at a bit of a faster speed but I'm not sure if the computer will be noisier with say 3 fans running faster as opposed to 5 fans running slower. For what it's worth I will only have 1 video card (R9 270) and will be using the 4770k (84W) CPU. To start off I am going to have 1 SSD and two 2TB hard drives running in RAID 1. My PCI-e slots are going to eventually be loaded with a TV tuner, capture card, sound card, and a Wi-Fi adapter. (Yes I know my Asus Z87 Pro board has built in Wi-Fi but I am going to want to use the "ac" wireless with a 3-antenna adapter).
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:21 am

@ Haswell-ready power supplies: This is due to a new super low power sleep state that Haswell CPUs now have. IIRC, that super low power state is not required and is disabled by default on most/all 8-series mobos.

@ Fans: Have you even tried the case with the stock fans? If they're loud and you can't slow them down, then by all means, get new ones. You'll have to find a balance between # of fans, fan size, and RPMs. This is a trial and error process, hence why it'd be a good idea to see where the stock fans get you first. My rig (as displayed in my signature) is similar power/heat to the one you're building and runs on 2 - 120mm intakes and 1 - 120mm exhaust. PSU intakes from outside the case. My temps are easily within safe ranges (I can get you exact temps tonight if you want, but it's something like <55C on the CPU and <70C on the GPU) even under "power-virus programs" like Prime95 and Kombustor, and I consider my rig whisper quiet even under these loads.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:32 am

Good call Pete. I will hold off on purchasing the replacement fans. So is that the software then that figures out the temperatures of your CPU and GPU?
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:50 pm

I use HW Monitor because it shows a lot of info. CoreTemp shows CPU temps only, and FurMark/Kombustor can tell you what your GPU temp is while the program is stress testing.

There are many others of course (stress-testing programs, and temp monitoring programs) I just typically use Prime95 or IntelBurnTest for CPU stress, FurMark for GPU stress, and HW Monitor for temps.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:11 pm

DPete27 wrote: Have you even tried the case with the stock fans? If they're loud and you can't slow them down, then by all means, get new ones.
I agree with this.

My replacement fans have been PWM so that my motherboard can turn them down to a slower minimum speed than is usually possible with straight voltage controlled fans.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:29 am

The stock corsair fans are actually very good.

Some vendors (Gigabyte/Asus, notably) allow full motherboard control of even 3-pin fans, not just 4-pin PWM fans.

Your mileage may vary but my experience is that Windows software fan control is better than anything handled by the BIOS.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:47 am

Chrispy_ wrote:The stock corsair fans are actually very good.

Some vendors (Gigabyte/Asus, notably) allow full motherboard control of even 3-pin fans, not just 4-pin PWM fans.

Your mileage may vary but my experience is that Windows software fan control is better than anything handled by the BIOS.

FWIW I've been pretty happy with the BIOS-based fan speed controls Asus provides.
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Re: First Build (REVISED 03/14/2014)

Postposted on Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:33 am

iamjsmith83 wrote:Apparently I have a problem...that Xeon processor that I wanted to get would not work with that motherboard. I figured that a socket 1150 Haswell chip would work in Z87 or H87 boards...nope. I nearly bought this damn thing! Thank Buddha someone on a forum on another site caught it for me


The Asustek support page for that motherboard shows the Xeon E3-12xx V3 supported as of BIOS revision 1205.
The Xeons are on the bottom of the CPU list you can also check tested memory and devices.

It's still up to you if need a Xeon also here is a link.
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z87PRO/#support
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