building new comp

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building new comp

Postposted on Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:25 pm

hello, im building a new comp primarily for 3d and computer graphics, but i also want to be able to play games at high resolutions.

Now i have heard a dual opteron would be good but i have seen the stats and the 4800 seems better all around plus its cheaper

here are the specs of the comp i am planning to get as of now, i was just wondering if you guys could check compatibility issues as well and recomendations and proformance...here is my build so far


AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz FSB 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail- $885

ABIT Fatal1ty AN8-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail- $205

OCZ Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail- $220

eVGA 256-P2-N529-AX Geforce 7800GTX 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail- $580

Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM 8MB Cache Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM- $163

Turtle Beach CATALINA 8 (7.1) Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail- $50

Logitech Cordless Desktop MX3100 967513-0403 2-Tone 104 Normal Keys 33 Function Keys PS/2 RF Wireless Standard Keyboard Mouse Included - Retail- $100

ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan/Heatsink - Retail- $80

Logitech X-530 70 watts 5.1 Speaker - OEM- $50

XG VORTEC PSVO-600 ATX 600W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, FCC, UR, TUV, and NOM - Retail- $100

Sunbeam Transformer IC-TR-B Blue Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail- $83


Total,

$2516.00


i dont really want to spend much more that this but if it was a few 100 more it would be fine.
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Postposted on Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:30 pm

You can save yourself some money on both the mobo and ram and not loose a lot in performance..never heard of that PSU. The GT will do you fine for a card as well...and if you wait a bit, either will be a bit cheaper.

Here is a GT for $313

http://www.xpbargains.com/#57672
Last edited by LicketySplit on Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postposted on Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:39 pm

Lets see.
As lickety said, ditch the fatal1ty name motherboard. I'd recommend the DFI UT nF4 Ultra-D, unless you have your heart set on SLI (I think the 7800gtx is good enough on it's own, but to each his own), in which case I would recommend the SLI version of it.

The powersupply, I don't know of that name. Do you have a link? Off-brand names can be iffy, and with that good of a computer, you don't want iffy 8)

Was there a specific reason you want that HSF? The Zalman 7700-CU Is almost half the price, and I'd say just as good at stock speeds. If you want to spend the $$, then I'd recommend the watercooler that I have, the self-contained Cooler Master R120 (you can find it for cheaper elsewhere).

The RAM looks good to me.
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Postposted on Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:15 pm

Whoa. that's some serious moolah you're spending there.

Personally, I think you can save some serious money by cutting back a little from the bleeding edge.

CPU: Athlon64 X2 3800+ $347 (savings: $533)
The performance will be satisfactory at stock, and you have a very high likelihood of overclockability - especially since you'd picked an OCer's motherboard anyway. 1 MB L2 doesn't seem to help A64s very much - the 2x512 kB on the 3800 is more than sufficient.

Motherboard: DFI Ultra Infinity $99 (savings: $106)
The ABit Fatality is a nice overclocker, but simply too expensive. Also, the northbridge heatpipe has been known to interfere with some cooling solutions, and OTES has been shown to be noisy and of no real benefit to cooling.

GPU: eVGA GeForce 7800 GT 256 MB $359 (savings: $221)
The GT should be more than enough for this gen's games, and next-gen's as well. Going to 20 pipes instead of 24 isn't that big a hit, especially since the G70 only has 16 ROPs anyway. and the evgas are quite overclockable, so you can easily close the clockspeed gap.

HDD: 250 Gig 16 MB SATA $129 (savings: $34)
Raptors are hot, noisy and small. The new crop of 7200 rpm sata drives with 16 MB cache perform within a hair of the Raptor, and sometimes even surpass it. Maxtor, Hitachi and WD all have models in the 250-400 Gig range. Your ears will thank me for this one, and you'll find the added space a welcome addition. The 7200 rpm drives will also likely be more reliable than a 10,000 rpm Raptor.

Thermaltake Big Typhoon $49 (savings: $31)
There's no contest. The Big Typhoon is quieter, cheaper and a better performer than the 9500. I have one in my case at the moment, and it is whisper-quiet. It is *big* though, and a little heavy (~800g), but the performance and noise (or lack thereof) are definitely worth it.

Razer Diamondback 1200 dpi optical mouse $49
You want to game and you're using a cordless mouse? Seriously though, the higher resolution of the Diamondback is a boon for both gaming and CAD, and the 7-ft cord means it isn't far off a wireless in terms of freedom. It's also lighter and you don't have to recharge it/change batteries. You could get the Logitech G5 instead or the laser Copperhead for a bit more, but I don't like laser mice as much because you have to lift the mouse pretty high to track. Go with the mouse that suits your hand best, however.

Savings tally: $925

That's a lot of money. With it, you can buy yourself a new display and still have change left over. Word of advice: if you're doing CAD, go for at least 1600x1200 - 1280x1024 just doesn't cut it for thin wireframes.

Good luck with your new system and hope my advice was useful!

Cheers,
V.
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ok

Postposted on Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:39 pm

like i said i can spend the extra money, as far as monitors ad other displays dont worry about it i already have that, for 3d i need a good cpu as i am rendering high res images which are all cpu and i need the power. AS fof the mother board i was looking at the DF lan or w/e it looked good i just heard of compatbility issues with it so i dunno about that... and the graphics card if anything i was gonna get dual but i dicided not to i want my comp to last and i also am doing 3d modeling and the res gets very high so i want some serious power and i dont mind money as long as it ait over 3000 like i said
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Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:01 am

Well, the 3800+ runs at 2.0 GHz stock, and will easily hit 2.4, and probably up to 2.7 with good cooling. If you want to run stock, then you could get the 4400 or 4600 X2 on stock coolers - the coolers on the higher X2 series are already heatpipe coolers and pretty decent.

Almost all nf4 boards will support X2 processors, although some may need a BIOS flash to do so - you will still be able to run an X2 processor in single core mode to run the neccessary flash.

I think you're spending more than you strictly need to - computer component costs go up exponentially while the gains tend to peter out. And future-proofing is not best accomplished by spending large amounts of money - quite the opposite, since that means your investment will depreciate faster.

I think you've got a good strategy with dual 1 GB sticks - this will give you room to upgrade, and 4 GB is the limit of most motherboards today anyway.

If you're really dependant on professional level rendering, you might be better off with a dual socket Opteron board based on the nf4 Pro chipset, but at that pricepoint I'd hope your company was shelling out for the rig. Your choice of the Transformer case tells me that that is not likely the case, though :P

I don't mean to patronise you, but just because you can spend the money doesn't mean you should. I'm sure you can always find something to do with 9 spare Ben Franklins - like buying 500 cups of coffee* while you wait on the added render time with the slower CPU :P

Cheers,
V.

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Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:40 am

I would also not reccomend getting that turtle beach card, it is a really poor sound card although it looks like a good one. I would tell you to go with an audigy2, it is just a better card.
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w

Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:39 pm

i would rather not overclock the crap out of the 3800 and just get the 4800 and overclock that...if i needed the extra power. and for the guy talking about the harddrives i already have a seperate storage harddrive thats 60 that ill use for that, and use the raptor for OS and some other apps.
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Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:48 pm

I think I'd go with a better PSU .PC Power and Cooling,Antec and Enermax are a few good brand names.I might go with a 4600+ instead of the 4800.I'm not really impressed with Abit boards ,but thats me.
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update

Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:04 pm

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz FSB 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core

Processor - Retail- $885- still not sure on this yet

ABIT Fatal1ty AN8-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail-

$205- im not set on this but i like how its compatible with most amd chips vs the dfi lanparty

OCZ Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual

Channel Kit System Memory - Retail- $220

eVGA 256-P2-N529-AX Geforce 7800GTX 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card

- Retail- $580-might wait for x1800xt

Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM 8MB Cache Serial ATA150 Hard Drive -

OEM- $163

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS 70SB035000000 8 (7.1) Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI

Interface Sound Card - Retail $90

Logitech Cordless Desktop MX3100 967513-0403 2-Tone 104 Normal Keys 33 Function

Keys PS/2 RF Wireless Standard Keyboard Mouse Included - Retail- $100

ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan/Heatsink - Retail- $80

Logitech X-530 70 watts 5.1 Speaker - OEM- $50

XG VORTEC PSVO-600 ATX 600W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, FCC, UR, TUV, and NOM - Retail- $100

Sunbeam Transformer IC-TR-B Blue Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail- $83


Total,

$2546.00
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Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:39 pm

Its been said before but I really hope your not just buying the PSU with the biggest output you can find. Look for a branded one like suggested above, anything around 500W would be plenty. Check out these power consumption graphs if you want proof on that, even a fully-loaded SLI system can't near 400W. A better brand of case such as Lian Li, Antec, Thermaltake or Silverstone probably wouldn't go amiss either, although that case may well be fine.

Also what do you mean the Abit board has more compatibilty vs the DFI? I'm pretty sure both boards would support all S939 AMD chips, the DFI sites not working for me to check that out though. Or does the DFI not have proper x2 support?

Other than that, don't let these people talk you out of spending your money. As long as you realise that spending this much money and buying above the sweet spot means your not getting best bang for buck go for it, if you can afford it why not.


O yeah and since I didn't like you PSU I thought I better put in a recommendation, something along this line should be good but doing research on that may be worth your while. The last thing you want in an expensive system is a dodgy PSU causing you headaches down the line.
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Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:43 pm

Just an old sheepdog waiting for some nasty wolves to show...ive got more than enough teeth left.
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gg

Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:37 pm

as far as the dfi yes it dosent why im not getting it i also saw some benches and the abit was faster, as for the PSU im not looking for the one with the most power output becasue if i was i would get a 2000W one but thats besides the point, i looked at the recomendation on the enermax and it looks pritty good, ill prolly get that
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Re: gg

Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:54 pm

haethos wrote:as far as the dfi yes it dosent why im not getting it i also saw some benches and the abit was faster, as for the PSU im not looking for the one with the most power output becasue if i was i would get a 2000W one but thats besides the point, i looked at the recomendation on the enermax and it looks pritty good, ill prolly get that


I can't understand that first sentence but is this the sort of benches you are talking about? Thats a non-SLI DFI board but it still comes out on top, slightly, in many of those tests. Although if you saying that the DFI doesn't support then dual-core that makes that decision for you. And if your happy to pay for the branding invovled with that Abit then I'm sure it will work fine, if not a bit loud with all those fans.

Good luck with your new system, its should still be very sweet :)
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Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:42 pm

LicketySplit wrote:This a great unit as well.
Seasonic S12-430
Note that the S12-500 and S12-600 have a few features not found on the smaller models (e.g.: dual 6-pin PCI-E video card connectors for SLI convenience).

Of the (comparatively) inexpensive PSU choices, I like the ventilation design of the Fortron Source AX400-PN.

I found this interesting guide while looking for the best price on Seasonic power supplies.
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no

Postposted on Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:27 pm

no those arnt the benches im talking about, i saw the ones on toms hardware i think if i remember correctly, and yes the reason im not thinking about it is not becasue of those superclose benches its becasue of the compatibility with the x2...sorry for the slurred sentence i type really fast so i make alot of errors for me at least and i forgot to go back and edit it.
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Postposted on Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:26 am

O rite, sorry I didn't realise the DFI boards don't support X2. Suprising. Good luck with it all :)
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Postposted on Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:41 pm

According to DFI, the ultra-D supports the x2
http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/mb_cpu_su ... 71&SITE=US
so does the SLI-DR for that matter
http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/mb_cpu_su ... 91&SITE=US

In fact, here's the list of DFI boards that support the X2.
LANPARTY UT NF4 SLI-DR Expert
LANPARTY UT nF3 ULTRA-D
LANPARTY UT nF3 ULTRA-DF
LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-D
LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR
LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D
LANPARTY UT nF4-D
LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR
NF4 INFINITY
NF4 SLI INFINITY
NF4 ULTRA INFINITY
NF4-DAGF
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Re: no

Postposted on Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:17 pm

haethos wrote:no those arnt the benches im talking about, i saw the ones on toms hardware i think if i remember correctly, and yes the reason im not thinking about it is not becasue of those superclose benches its becasue of the compatibility with the x2...
Enough said? :roll:

Also, check the dates when those "reviews" were published. X2 has been out for quite some time and most boards should have a new board revision and/or new BIOS to support them already.

Now, to throw a curveball here: if you are going to do more 3d modeling and stuff, wouldn't you need a Quadro FX 4500?

As for CPU, I would think going one speedstep lower will be more worth it? The 4800 most likely has less OC room.

And for PSU, unless you know that model you listed is a good brand (not a good sign when no one here has heard of it), please get one of those that were listed here. With that kind of money you can't afford to have a bad PSU.
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:05 am

If I were laying out that sort of coin (and even if I weren't), I'd start from the ground up by spending the most on the gear that I do not plan to change anytime soon, if ever. That said, I'd buy the Antec 180 case, a PC Power and Cooling 510 SLI supply, and whatever watercooling solution floats your boat. The watercooling is a personal choice, only because I prefer to hear my music and games and not the PC.

There's always a risk in going with the "video card of the month", but you'll never regret spending money just once on the best power supply you can afford.
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Re: no

Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:53 am

Flying Fox wrote:
haethos wrote:no those arnt the benches im talking about, i saw the ones on toms hardware i think if i remember correctly, and yes the reason im not thinking about it is not becasue of those superclose benches its becasue of the compatibility with the x2...
Enough said? :roll:

Also, check the dates when those "reviews" were published. X2 has been out for quite some time and most boards should have a new board revision and/or new BIOS to support them already.

Now, to throw a curveball here: if you are going to do more 3d modeling and stuff, wouldn't you need a Quadro FX 4500?

As for CPU, I would think going one speedstep lower will be more worth it? The 4800 most likely has less OC room.

And for PSU, unless you know that model you listed is a good brand (not a good sign when no one here has heard of it), please get one of those that were listed here. With that kind of money you can't afford to have a bad PSU.


no i dont want the quatro, ill be doing 50% games and 50% 3d modeling and rendering(Maya), the quatrro is just alright on games and is very expensive, and the 7800gtx or if i get the x1800xt should do alright on 3d plus the quaddro if i remember correctly is 3 times the price, if i were going to spend that id get the 3d labs stuff
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bt

Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:05 am

btw it seems alot of people are reccomending the dfi lanparty boards, do you think you could tell me why they are a better buy then the fatal1ty?

yes the fatal1ty might be a little expensive but since its good i dont mind the extra few dollas
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:32 am

The overclocking performance, not to mention all the goodies that come with it. Check out the reviews, it has a huge number of options, a well-thought out layout and strong overclocking with numerous options, including high VDIMM voltages for Mushkin Redline and the high-voltage OCZ dimms.

That said I don't there is anything particularily wrong with the Abit, your just paying for a name and the OTES cooler is apparently loud and useless.

Just my view anyway.



*Edit: Must use preview more
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:36 pm

If it's 50/50 game/3d then yeah, you probably don't need the Quadro. But then again, if Maya doesn't work then I don't know. IIRC Nvidia disable the ability to mod to a Quadro a long time ago.
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:31 pm

think i will chime in and reccomend a board from DFI too, oh and yes a different PSU too. check the A list over @ DFI-street.com these are only the highest quality PSU's and would be fine for either board you decide to go with.

i chose the Lanparty over the Fata1ty board purley cos it got better reveiws and i had multiple reccomedations from forums, colleagues and mates, and i beleive i made the righ choice this board rocks

the layout of the componants is excellent, BIOS options aplenty (for the hardcore tweaker), overclocks like a dream. only downside is that @7000 rpm the chipset is a noisy git but with good airflow the bios will slow it down, the package of the SLI-DR version is full of goodies too
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ok

Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:20 pm

ok...well since of the high recommendations i guess ill go with the DFI, could anyone reccomend me the one that would work the best for my set up


also could i get a few more solid reccomendations for PSU's becasue mine dosent sound very good, it seems
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:42 pm

the top end DFI boards are
LANPARTY UT NF4 SLI-DR Expert not available yet


LANPARTY UT nF4 ultra-D - non SLI 4 SATA
LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-D - SLI 4 SATA not so many goodies
LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR - SLI, 8 SATA lots o goodies like Frontx Panel, carry case, lanparty sticker and badge and all the cables you will ever need for it.

check out this guide for PSU's reccomended for DFI boards

http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10854&highlight=PSU+guide
Last edited by Dyn0mutt on Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:00 pm

JustAnEngineer loves his Seasonic in a few posts above.

PC Power & Cooling was mentioned as well. You just have to read the thread again.

Enermax is good too.

Antec is kind of a toss-up. People have been experiencing some problems recently, but Antec may have cleaned up its act already.
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:52 pm

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz FSB 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939
Dual Core Processor - Retail- $884

ABIT Fatal1ty AN8-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD
Motherboard - Retail- $202-ill keep this on here till i find the right DFI board to get

OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual
Channel Platinum System Memory - Retail- $257

ATI Radeon X1800 XT 512MB GDDR3/PCI-E/AVIVO/Dual-DVI-Retail- $550, imma wait for this to come out and see how good it is, otherwise ill get 7800gtx or maby even sli, not sure yet

Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM 8MB Cache Serial
ATA150 Hard Drive - retail- $180

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0350 8 (7.1) Channels 24-bit
192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM- $70

Logitech Cordless Desktop MX3100 967513-0403 2-Tone 104 Normal Keys
33 Function Keys PS/2 RF Wireless Standard Keyboard Mouse Included -
Retail- $108

ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan/Heatsink -
Retail- $80

Logitech X-530 70 watts 5.1 Speaker - Retail- $50

ENERMAX Whisper II EG565P-VE FMA(24P) ATX12V 535W Power Supply
90V~135V or 90V~265V UL, cUL, TUV, CB - Retail- $89

Sunbeam Transformer IC-TR-B Blue Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case -
Retail- $83


hows this system?

btw thats around $2500-2600 im willing to spend about 2800-2900 if any of you want to make any more expensive reccomendations
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Postposted on Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:45 pm

I'd recommend a better mouse for gaming. The logitech g5 is a nice one (haven't used it personally, but comes highly recommended from my professional-gaming friend).
Also, It'll be at least a month before the 1800xt is even available, so I'd just go ahead and get the 7800gtx because it's available now.
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