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Pez
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Upgrade Time - Limited Budget - X2

Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:14 am

Hi Guys,

1st post in the forum although been reading TR for about 4 years now. I'm upgrading a venerable machine [my old AXP 2500+ ahh..] to something more powerfull and modern and wondered what you think of the choices and reasoning.

We'll start with the old system, assembled on a budget but nice performing:

CPU Athlon Xp 2500+
Motherboard MSI K7N2-ILSR
RAM 2x256 OCZ PC3500 EB 2.5-2-2-5@400Mhz
PSU 550W Q-Tec [Only 20A on 12 and LOUD]
HD Maxtor Diamondmax 9 160GB
Graphics XFX 6600GT @ 560/1120
Sound Audigy 2

A Superflower Case w/Side+Top Windows. I'm very attatched to this case btw :D and it will deffinately not be changed.
It has 3x80mm UV Cold cathode Fans and a 120mm LED fan for exhaust.

NOW then!

I plan to overclock, so a decent board is needed. I really want 2GB of RAM as I play World Of Warcraft alot which could do with it and it's fairly future proof. I'm not that bothered about PCI-E as my 6600Gt plays everything I need easily.

I have approx £600 [yup pounds -UK lad :)] to spend and this is what I had my eyes on so Far:

Edit:

Current Choices

AMD Opteron 165 939 [Thx Voldenuit]
Asrock Sata-II Dual [Thx lex-ington I'd forgotton about that!]
OCZ PC3200El platinum Edition [just can't resist]
Hiper HPU-4K580-MK Type R 580W Modular ATX2.2 PSU
Lots of Guiness/Broon Ale

It's starting to take shape! Thanks for the input!

Original plan:
OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC3200 Dual Channel Platinum Series EL-DDR CAS2 AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 3800+ (Socket 939) - Retail £204.95
ThermalRight SI-120 Heatsink £29.95
DFI LanParty UT NF3 Ultra Motherboard £69.95
Hiper HPU-4K580-MK Type R 580W Modular ATX2.2 PSU - Red UV £54.95
Subtotal £534.75
Shipping (City Link Parcel Next Day (Delivered Mon-Fri)) £8.95
VAT £95.15
Total £638.85

What do you think? Anything you would change or do you think this is cool?

Input appreciated!
Pez
Last edited by Pez on Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Voldenuit
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:58 am

OK, a few comments about your methodology. Of course, this is just my opinion, so don't be offended if mine differ from yours.

1. RAM.
Don't bother. Dollar for dollar, spending money on expensive RAM is one of the worst investments you can make in a system performance-wise. Techreport themselves covered it quite succintly here. 2 gigs of value RAM from a reputable manufacturer will be just as good, and you can spend that hard-earned money on something more worthwhile. Just make sure you get 2x1Gig sticks (which you had already planned to).

2. CPU
Check out the Opteron 165 for a cheaper dual-core CPU with more cache than the 3800 X2. Sure, it's 200 MHz slower, but you're planning to overclock anyway, so speed is not an issue. But the added L2 cache has been shown to have a (small) advantage. Note that despite being an Opteron, this is a Socket 939 chip that acepts regular DDR memory.

3. Motherboard.
Do not, under any circumstance, buy an AGP motherboard in this day and age. The AGP card market is drying up fast, if it hasn't already, and you'll end up having to replace your mobo if you want a new GPU within the next 6 months or later.

I personally find the Lanparty range to be overpriced. If you want a good overclocker, look at the DFI Infinity NF4 series, or the Jetway GT4-SLI. I've got the Jetway, and even though I'm not planning to go SLI, it is one sweet board. I'd stay away from the current ABits, which don't overclock well at all, and the ASUS NF4s are simply too expensive for what they are.

4. Heatsink
I'd play around with the stock amd heatsink first. If you can't hit the overclock you're after, then an aftermarket heatsink may improve your OC. I'm still partial to the Big Typhoon, which is reigning champ at several websites, but the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 is lighter and performs just as well. Oh, and a side note about overclocking. The Jetway motherboard has OC options that still allow you to use Cool n Quiet to underclock/undervolt your CPU during low usage, reducing heat production and prolonging your component life. Neat!

5. GPU
OK, I know you didn't put one here, but this is one area I really think you should consider. The majority of modern games are actually GPU-bound at resolutions above 1024x768, and you'd be wasting money on your processor if you don't have a GPU to go with it. The 6600GT is pretty outclassed these days - try running FEAR at 1280x1024 on a 19" (or even 17") LCD and you'll see what I mean. The 6800GS is probably the best value for money at the moment, with the 7800GT a close second (although hampered by a significantly higher price). Then again, I know you live in the UK where computer prices are extortion, so I can sympathise with you not wanting to upgrade too much at a time.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
V.
 
lex-ington
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:11 am

1.Since you already stated that you don't plan on getting a new vid-card, why not go for a borad that accepts an AGP like the ASRock 939-dual board?

2. Is it necessary that you go dual-core right now? Would a 3500 do and overclock that? I ask since at some point in time next year AMD is going to new sockets anyways - unless you plan on holding onto the planned system for a few years then that MAY justify the wanting a dual-core processor.

with 1 & 2 you will probably come under your proposed budget and can go and enjoy about 10 pints of GUINNESS (2 each day) to celebrate your suave expertise in money spending 101.
Last edited by lex-ington on Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pez
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Location: Newcastle, England

Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:14 am

Thanks for the reply. The difference in price between the OCZ and GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC3200 Value Dual for instance is £65 although it's 3-4-4-8 rather than 2-3-2-5 I [hopefully] should get 2.5-3-3-7 maybe... but it will not OC as well if i wanted to overclock the RAM as well.

The Opteron 165 about the same price as the 3800+ so I'll go for that - Cheers for the tip :)

I'll drop the aftermarket for the minute as well, just wanted to maximise OC potential from the word go lol, so that saves £30 [total saved £90]

Motherboard, hmm well I wanted the UV of the lanparty but if I went PCi-E i would proberbly go for the BFG RNF4U nForce4 Ultra motherboard. It's the same price as the Lanparty AGP also.

Problem this way is it only leaves £95 for the GPU to go PCI-E and the cheapest 6800GS is £160 which puts me £70 more over budget so I'd have to find the extra cash from somewhere for it.

Edit: Lex replied whilst I typed!

Yes, i had considered the ASRock as well. I do want to go dual-core for multitasking and yeah I intend on holding onto this one for a while!

The fact I could get 10 Pints of Guiness or my fav Brown Ale is tempting too!
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rapaz
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:23 am

Hi Pez,

Welcome to the Forum.

The OCZ Plat PC3200 is a well respected pair of RAMs! I remember seeing this used in a lot of oc rigs!

The Thermalright XP120 is another great choice and coupled with a nice 120mm fan you should have some great cooling. I know that this particular heatsink causes probs with some of the DFI nf4 mobos but I checked and it says 'okay' for this heatsink coupled with the nf3 board.

DFI - great motherboards and as you want to oc then it should be perfect. Check out this site if you haven't already coz there is a wealth of knowledge and lots of people to help. There are lots of great guides on oc'ing too!

Again, the CPU that you have chosen is a great one esp for oc'ing. Although if you are really into oc'ing I've heard a lot of people talk about the Opterons. I've got an X2 4200, and heard a lot of good things about it too (check the AMD part of the forum where there is a big discussion over whether to get X2 3200 & X2 4200). If the X2 4200 is only a little more expensive then I'd go for it.

Good luck with the build! :)

Are you not tempted to get a PCI-E graphics card and then get a nice nf4 mobo etc?
 
Voldenuit
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:39 am

Pez wrote:
Thanks for the reply. The difference in price between the OCZ and GeIL 2GB (2x1GB) PC3200 Value Dual for instance is £65 although it's 3-4-4-8 rather than 2-3-2-5 I [hopefully] should get 2.5-3-3-7 maybe... but it will not OC as well if i wanted to overclock the RAM as well.


Well, if you're going to seriously overclock, you're probably going to use memory dividers (I ran my Venice 3000 at 325 LDT for a while, then decided that 1.6 V was too high for constant use, and downgraded to 314 LDT). In which case your memory is unlikely to be holding you back from your peak overclock.

Although the timings on the Geil are not the best, you can often run decent ram at better than their rated timings. I'm running Cas-3 Kingston Value Rams at 2.5-3-3-7 at 219 DDR.

Pity about having to go over-budget to get a decent grafx card. Although since the Denmark Opterons don't draw that much power, and the NV42 is much less power-hungry than the NV40, you might be able to get away with using your old PSU for a while. But it's not ideal since you probably don't have a 24-pin connector, and you might be overloading your weak 12V rail with a GPU.
 
Voldenuit
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:50 am

UPDATE:

After looking at xbitlab's GeForce 6800GS power consumption analysis, you *might* be able to get away with your old PSU.

Theyreported that it drew just under 55W at load, with most of the draw coming from the 12V rail. That equates to 4.55A on a 12V rail, which is comfortably below yor maximum. SilentPCreview came up with figures quoting ~10 W draw from hard drives under load, which is a measly 0.83 A per hard drive. So, barring any other major peripherals, you should still be able to fit under 20 A on your 12V rail.

It's not ideal, of course, but you can probably live with it until you have enough money to buy a new PSU.
Last edited by Voldenuit on Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
flip-mode
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Re: Upgrade Time - Limited Budget - X2

Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:51 am

Pez wrote:
I plan to overclock, so a decent board is needed.

Current Choices

Asrock Sata-II Dual [Thx lex-ington I'd forgotton about that!]


That board will do you no good for overclocking unless you plan on getting out the saudering iron for a voltage mod. I just put one together with that board and an X2 3800 and vcore is severely crippled.
 
Pez
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Location: Newcastle, England

Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:01 pm

Hmm... some interesting stuff there Voldenuit. I would go PCI-E in that case as I could drop the PUS, as you point out.

Would you recommend the Infinity or the BFG as the mobo?

Hmm descisions descision

@flip-mode Yeah I thought that. I don't mind doing that though :) if that's the board I go for.
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Voldenuit
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Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:53 am

Pez wrote:
Hmm... some interesting stuff there Voldenuit. I would go PCI-E in that case as I could drop the PUS, as you point out.

Would you recommend the Infinity or the BFG as the mobo?


Well, I'm more familiar with the DFI than the BFG, so I can't offer an informed viewpoint on the matter. If I were you, I'd run a Google search to see how stable each board is if you're using a 20-pin connector instead of a 24.

PS: The Infinity is also available as a "DAGF". The boards are identical, but the DAGF is a few bucks cheaper simply because it doesn't have the Infinity name. It's possible that the DAGF could be an earlier revision, though, so you might want to research that*

*Early DFI BIOSes did not support X2s - you had to run in single core mode and flash the BIOS.
 
Flying Fox
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Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:57 pm

If you can arrange to sell your AGP card then you may have a bit more funds towards your PCIe conversion.

I share the same view about the lack of OC potential of the AsRock. nForce4 boards are what you need to look at, although beware of the current issues.

Another suggestion for "budget" component may be to get a Geforce 6150/6100 board (likely mATX though but who needs that many PCI slots? :wink:), use the onboard for a while and then get the 6800GS or even 7600GT if and when it is out next year.

Regarding the Opteron, the list price may be low enough, but there may be no stock. An unavailable product is still bad no matter how low the price is. Some places that have stock are apparently jacking up prices to gouge more money for their own holiday spending. :(

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